Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (Full Version)

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gajdacs zsolt -> Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/21/2010 10:54:36 PM)

Hi!

I noticed an interesting "glitch" in my ongoing PBEM game, I'm not really sure what to make of it. I attached a screenshot of the pilot replacement screen, there are a few interesting things on it:
in the IJ Navy row, the 10-12 month training column shows 63 exp for trainees, while the overall exp shows 49.
One row below that is 36, which is interesting because in the column to the left it shows 37 and the overall maximum is 38.

Also, i find it weird that the overall IJA exp column shows 38 at this time. I'm doing a test run of the japanese industry on a modified version of scen 2, and in that in '43 oct the overall IJA exp is 39. (I did not modify anything related to pilots, just made the map smaller so i can run many turns fast.)

The game was started on the original patch 2, we upgraded to every fix that came out since then, and now we are using the latest 1.0.3.1101b version. And it's scenario 2.

Thanks for the help!

(Can provide save if needed)

[image]local://upfiles/32874/B2AD52D27D9043F583319E5A79DD59F8.jpg[/image]



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/21/2010 11:28:10 PM)

It's quite late here and I'm getting tired....i guess there is no way to check this without the save....

(save attached)

The question is then: To whom should i send the password?



michaelm75au -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/22/2010 1:17:28 PM)

The higher EXP rating is due to the Training Command.
You have 64 and 255 army and navy respectively in TRACOM, and they are aiding in the increased EXP levels.



BeastieDog -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/22/2010 1:44:37 PM)

So TRACOM does make a difference and how did you get 255 Navy pilots into TRACOM?



viberpol -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/22/2010 2:04:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The higher EXP rating is due to the Training Command.
You have 64 and 255 army and navy respectively in TRACOM, and they are aiding in the increased EXP levels.



But does it make sense?
Zsolo007 has 806 pilots in the last quarter of training at level 63 experience.
But what is the average experience of a new navy pilot pulled to the daitai in game? 63 or 49?
From my experience, you always pick one from the first column (3780 pilots ready), so you still have only 49 EPs pilots entering the game.
Zsolo007, did the increase of experience in the last quarter also increased the average level of your navy pilots in the pool of 3780 pilots during the last couple of months? Or it just dropped to 49 from 50 although the level of most experienced trainees has been continuously increasing?

My point is -- even if you have well over 200 elite pilots in the TRACOM sitting there for a couple of months, and the level of experience of your trainees during last quarter (months 9 - 12) increase (that 63 EXP is quite high; I am sure it didn't rise at once), you still end up with having less experienced pilots entering your squadrons. Is it WAD?



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/22/2010 7:13:51 PM)

You are correct in your assumption viberpol, fresh pilots come out with exp around 49. That's another reason i find the 63 figure weird, also i remember that i read somewhere here on the forums that TRACOM just speeds up the process, it does not change exp values.
Unfortunately i did not notice this up until now, but i think i'm going to load in older saves to figure this one out....

BeastieDog: It's pretty easy to put that many pilots into TRACOM, scen 2 starts with a lot of navy pilots above 80 exp. And since i use TRACOM to 'save' these pilots for later times i sent many of them there...

michaelm: So your are saying that everything is WAD? Then why don't i get fresh pilots with experience in the 60s? And why is the army figure lower in month 10-12 then in 7-9?

Thanks!


EDIT: I did a short test with this save, emptied a group a 36 planes (48 pilots max), and i got pilots from replacement with exp levels between 56 and 40. (22 >=50, the rest below)
Exact numbers are as follows: 1 56, 2 55, 2 54, 2 53, 7 52, 3 51, 5 50.



michaelm75au -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/22/2010 7:34:05 PM)

The first exp column (49) is the current average level of the pool of 3780.

When the pilots from the training cycle (806 at exp 63) arrive (end of month), the average exp is recalculated.
This would come out as about 51 assuming the numbers stay constant.

Replacement pilots are always pulled from the 'In pool column'. Unless it drops to 0 when they will come from the rightmost columns with some pilots in them.



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/22/2010 7:42:54 PM)

Everything is okey then.
Thank you very much for the help!



BeastieDog -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/22/2010 10:40:45 PM)

Thanks Zsolo. I've never looked at scn 2. It must be quite different.



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/26/2010 10:36:21 AM)

quote:

When the pilots from the training cycle (806 at exp 63) arrive (end of month), the average exp is recalculated.
This would come out as about 51 assuming the numbers stay constant.


I know it's a minor issue, but this bothers me....what you said did not happen. At the end of the month the average exp dropped from 49 to 48...

I attached a picture of tracker's history tab....do you have any idea why did it decrease?

Thanks!

[image]local://upfiles/32874/673342FA49BE44DDB7F5DF7CDB779CDD.jpg[/image]



viberpol -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/26/2010 2:29:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zsolo007

quote:

When the pilots from the training cycle (806 at exp 63) arrive (end of month), the average exp is recalculated.
This would come out as about 51 assuming the numbers stay constant.


I know it's a minor issue, but this bothers me....what you said did not happen. At the end of the month the average exp dropped from 49 to 48...

I attached a picture of tracker's history tab....do you have any idea why did it decrease?

Thanks!

[image]local://upfiles/32874/673342FA49BE44DDB7F5DF7CDB779CDD.jpg[/image]


I wouldn't call it "minor" issue. It's the core of TRACOM usability.
As your results suggest, even after pumping up the TRACOM with 200-300 elite pilots (you said you even increased the number of pilots sent there?) you get no real advantage as far as the exp. level is concerned.
It seems weird that 800 fresh pilots with EXP of 63 when transferred to the main pool (EXP 49) decreases the average.
It seems that the national average override our efforts.
I say it's not WAD. [:(]



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/26/2010 3:31:45 PM)

Allright, it's not minor in that sense, but it doesn't brake the game either...
And yes i upped the number of navy pilots in Tracom from 255 to 334, i guess that's why you see the increase of experience in month 1-3, 4-6 and 7-9. But this should have no effect now, especially not a negative one....

Anyway, I'm going to run a test scenario, with 100 IJA and 300 IJN pilots in tracom from dec 7 to see what happens...



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/26/2010 7:12:43 PM)

It seems you were right viberpol. I just finished the test. I ran a custom scenario (based on scenario 2) from 411207 to 430101.

TRACOM seems to works backwards right now....

The results:



[image]local://upfiles/32874/CAE936A653344F8D992E12EE5BC5C462.jpg[/image]



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/26/2010 7:44:12 PM)

Here's the scenario i used, and two saves. One at 420901 (turn 269) and the other at 430101.

Changes compared to scen 2:
Scaled the map down to the area around the Home Islands.

Extra daily supply/fuel/resource set for Tokyo and Osaka (i made these changes for an earlier run, when i tested how the airframe research works)

All airgroups set to arrive at 460101, so there would be no interference with the pool.

I set up 1 IJA squadron with 100 planes, pilots with 90 exp, and 2 IJN squadrons with 150 planes and pilots with 90 exp.
Then in the game i moved all the pilots from the 3 squadrons, then disbanded them.

I hope someone can back my data up, and that this is important enough for the devs to take a look at (that is if there is really a problem, and it's not just me making some stupid mistake).

Thank you!



treespider -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/26/2010 8:54:43 PM)

perhaps tracker is broken --- How can you have an avg. exp of 144 on Turn 330 in the above screen shot?

Is the in game experience on the Intel screen reading over 100 on turns 330 and 360?



viberpol -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/26/2010 9:03:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

perhaps tracker is broken --- How can you have an avg. exp of 144 on Turn 330 in the above screen shot?

Is the in game experience on the Intel screen reading over 100 on turns 330 and 360?


I think Tracker goes crazy sometimes. I also notice regular "cuts and adds" (like making 84 out of 845 pilots in the pool).
But it's not the Tracker that is in question.
We're wondering how high experience level pilots added to the general reserve can decrease it's experience.
Please, see the previous posts. It seems weird that 800 fresh pilots with EXP of 63 when transferred to the main pool (EXP 49) decreases the average. And that's a fact, confirmed in intel screenie.



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/26/2010 9:05:39 PM)

Tracker works just fine, here's a screenshot of turn 269 (because i only have save at that point). Even though i cannot show you screenshots of every turn that i loaded into tracker, i checked the ingame screen every time before saving, and it showed the same data as tracker.

But if you doubt me i'll run it again tomorrow. And I'll make separate saves and screenshots for every turn i load into tracker.

[image]local://upfiles/32874/4DA2698705834BF8BBFFC2F0A0F4B5B6.jpg[/image]



michaelm75au -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/27/2010 1:29:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zsolo007

quote:

When the pilots from the training cycle (806 at exp 63) arrive (end of month), the average exp is recalculated.
This would come out as about 51 assuming the numbers stay constant.


I know it's a minor issue, but this bothers me....what you said did not happen. At the end of the month the average exp dropped from 49 to 48...

I attached a picture of tracker's history tab....do you have any idea why did it decrease?

Thanks!

[image]local://upfiles/32874/673342FA49BE44DDB7F5DF7CDB779CDD.jpg[/image]


I said if all things remain constant. There are new pilots being used and pilots moving between months, plus some loss of training pilots.
The main thing is that it is an average, based on the number of pilots and their exp value per month.
[My maths was out..the columns are for 3 months so it is a average over three months. I should only have taken the number of the pilots in the last month of that 3-month column.]



michaelm75au -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/27/2010 1:34:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zsolo007

Tracker works just fine, here's a screenshot of turn 269 (because i only have save at that point). Even though i cannot show you screenshots of every turn that i loaded into tracker, i checked the ingame screen every time before saving, and it showed the same data as tracker.

But if you doubt me i'll run it again tomorrow. And I'll make separate saves and screenshots for every turn i load into tracker.

[image]local://upfiles/32874/4DA2698705834BF8BBFFC2F0A0F4B5B6.jpg[/image]


NOW that experience is crazy. It shouldn't being going over 100 at the most.
Maybe having too many TRACOM pilots is having a weird affect.
Can you drop in the save?
[edit] Never mind I can see some saves above



michaelm75au -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/27/2010 1:48:49 AM)

The figures for turn 146 and 177 are really strange.
The number of pilots (IJN) in last quarter of training in 146 is -8849 with 0 exp and in the pool for turn 177 as -3764.
The negative figures is what has blown the average to over 100.




viberpol -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/27/2010 1:59:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I said if all things remain constant. There are new pilots being used and pilots moving between months, plus some loss of training pilots.
The main thing is that it is an average, based on the number of pilots and their exp value per month.
[My maths was out..the columns are for 3 months so it is a average over three months. I should only have taken the number of the pilots in the last month of that 3-month column.]


Michael, please admit there's something out of whack.
If you take the file attached in this thread submitted by Zsolo007
from the real game, not test: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2317995&mpage=1&key=?

You see there's higher than 49 EXP level in the last quarter for more than a 90 days now.
See 57 at turn 145? 50-54-63 still increase in the last quarter, and still bigger EXP than 50, right?
But after 3 months the average still dropped. It's a simple calculation based on common sense.
800 pilots at EXP63 entering the main pool EXP49 should increase the AV to 51,5.
If it dropped to 48, it means that the national average (of over 3 thousand pilots already trained!?) should have dropped by 5 EXP points? In one month? Impossible.

[image]local://upfiles/18529/4C734CFE6601440DAF4AEEAB221A4F30.jpg[/image]



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/27/2010 10:29:15 AM)

To further prove my point i'm starting a test run on the original scenario 2. This is gonna take some time...

I added all eligible pilots to TRACOM at 411208. That's 528 navy and 100 army pilots, so TRACOM should be able to handle at least this many pilots... I'm gonna run this till '43 january. I'll make separate saves and screenshots at the start of every month, and load them all to tracker....

[image]local://upfiles/32874/3186EB94D1364D58A8CC42B7739A8625.jpg[/image]



michaelm75au -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/28/2010 4:09:26 AM)

To fix this 'weirdness', I will be putting a cap on impact of instructors on the training cycles for the official patch03.

Basically, the instructors will have more impact at the start of the cycle than at the end. At the moment, instructors have the same influence over all months of the cycle, so it is acting as a cascading affect on the pilot experience.

This is all I can do at the moment in order not to stop the official patch from being seen.
I will re-examine the full instructor affect on the cycle after a short break.



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Is this a Bug? Save game error? Display glitch? (2/28/2010 11:28:50 PM)

Thank you, this is very good news!

I finally finished my test run on the official scenario 2. I hope it helps somewhat. I have saves from every month, if you need any of it....

[image]local://upfiles/32874/D40D85EB20A345D49A74247CED55614E.jpg[/image]



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