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crsutton -> RE: The tojo as uber..... (3/7/2010 9:00:19 PM)
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Wow, I did not even realize that my thread had been moved.
Well, Ark has only run a few tests and we really need to go further into the game.
First let my say that there is only a little historical basis to go on here. The tojo fighter actually only fought the P 40 for a brief time in Burma. I believe it was the 23rd squadron that faced tojos before they upgraded to mustangs. From what I have seen the Allied pilots were intially surprised by the tojo fighter because it was a plane that countered the standard tactics for fighting Japanese fighters. That is, the tojo could fight in the verticle (boom and zoom) vs the P 40 and gave the Allied pilots a good fight. However it was the other defects of the tojo that don't show up on paper so much that made it only about equal to the P 40. That is, poor handling, easy to stall and spin, weaker armament and lack of armor. Frankly, I stand by what I say. It was not a very popular plane and was eventually phased out of production. However, our game works on a simpler plain and looks at maneuverabilty, and speed as the most important factors. In that respect, in game terms the tojo is better and seems to dominate the P-40. Historically, it probably was no more than an equal match for the P 40.
However, our battle was only a single event and we have not had too many tojo vs allied fighter fights to really form a conclusion. As Ark says he had superior pilots but mine were still pretty good. I have good leaders as well but I moved my fighters before the fight so perhas the little fatigue they had (average 7). It will just need to be tested more. Right now, I suspect that the tojo is superior and I will come back and report when we have had more fights. And, Ark tells me he is making about 200 tojos a month in July of 42, (cursed damn scenario #2 [:D]), so with my own pitiful fighter replacement rate I will be fighting at a disadvantage for a little while longer. So be it.
In addtion, I don't think many would argue againt my statement that high altitude sweep is too deadly and kind of whacks out air combat. We have all seen enough of that. Perhaps a HR that limits sweeping and CAP fighters to their best perfomance altitude will suffice. However that might create problems for those defending against players who like to fly bombers way up high. So who knows.
In my own opinion, I would like to say that altitude advantage and "bounce" are two different things entirely. Bounce means surprise and yes I agree, altitude sometimes gave the bounce. However with a separation of 15,000 feet, and good situational awareness from the lower flying aircraft, then there would not have been much of chance of a bounce. The early zero fighter had a top diving speed of less than 400 MPH, Oscar may have been less. Any higher speed and the zero tended to shed its wings. Early model Tojos seemed to have a top diving speed of about 460 MPH. All three Japanese figherts suffered from serious control problems at high speed. A P40 could dive away and quickly be diving at 500 MPH and still had excellent control at high speeds-especially roll. There were other factors as well. Usually, there were clouds to escape into, or haze, so a 10,000 foot advantage may not have been much of an advangtage at all. In fact, in actual combat for a Japanese aircraft, a 1000 to 2000 foot height advantage might have been better for the bounce opportunity.
Anyways, I think it is important for the game to be tweaked so that players are rewarded for using their aircraft at the proper altitudes. For 1st generation fighters, it should be not more than 20,000 feet. As an example, the P40 had a max service ceiling of about 29,000 ft. Well, that happens to be about the same height as Mount Everest. Think of the impact of flying a early war fighter at that height. First, it would be near impossible to control, I don't think any fighter of that generation was pressurized, cold and fatigue would be extreme, oxygen equipment would have to be excellent, and formation flying would be virtually impossible as the slightest tweak in your stick would cause a quick elevation drop of thousands of feet due to the thin air. These fighters just were not meant to fly or fight that high.
Perhaps a solution is to just limit all aircraft to a realistic combat ceiling and not even have max service ceilings in the game. Only the finest (test pilots) ever flew that high anyways.
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