#19 is not easy!

#19 is not easy! (Full Version)

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Q-Ball -> #19 is not easy! (7/10/2002 1:10:19 AM)
I am replying to gfish22's last comment in the Port Moresby supply thread, starting a new one on#19. I started #19 as well, feeling pretty cocky, and I've had some trouble with it! This is only my second attempt at UV, but I felt some usual anit-AI cockiness that has been knocked down a notch on this one. Port Moresby has been a real problem for me in this one. Those extra Jap aircraft have bombarded PM mercilessly, and started sending bombardment TF's "around the horn" to pound PM. No problem, I countered this by occupying Rossell Is. and stationing a CV TF south of Gili Gili. That worked for a month, as I picked off many AP's trying to re-inforce Gili, and knocked around a number of CA's, until the 9 CV uber-TF blew away the Lexington and ended that strategy! That uber-TF is also making it impossible currently to re-supply PM. The only workable strategy seems to be to build up forward airbases when the Jap CV's aren't around (building Irau right now), and hope that eventually I can start to pick off CV's with LBA or subs, at some point evening the odds. I haven't had as much problem with subs as gfish. I've noticed the AI seems to send most subs to the West and South of Noumea, so I've had all TF's steam due north first, before heading for their destinations. Maybe I'm just lucky so far, but no hits or sightings yet.

ladner -> (7/11/2002 8:28:57 AM)
Q-ball I have to concur with you on 19, sure brought me down a couple of pegs. With regards to the subs my CV TFs were due north of Noumea with a bearing straight south. Same location you mention so I think this might have just been an unlucky day for the USN. Still to borrow from my earlier post I have yet to read of IJN I-boats being as effective as they are in UV and to reiterate, the reason the Imperial staff relegated the I-boats to supply duty was a direct result of the poor performance of the sub arm during the first year of the war. Interestingly enough the Japanese designed a purpose built cargo sub but I have not researched if the boat went to production. Of course I am quoting Ronald Spector's book [U]Eagle Against the Sun the American War Against Japan[/U] again. Perhaps I need to read up more on the conflict from other sources but I doubt the book is in error. gfish22

Ron Saueracker -> Scen #19 (7/11/2002 10:34:18 PM)
The AI's constant habit of sending it's CVs (regardless of how many) into effective LBA range negates the Japanese advantages very early into the game. Not just CVs either. Routine TFs have no ASW, but have CA escorts, and wander into LBA range like cows in a meat packing plant. Talk about no rhyme nor reason. AI also sends damaged ships immediately to Truk, disregarding floatation damage and large ports just hexes away, resulting in further needless ship losses.

Q-Ball -> (7/15/2002 10:29:49 PM)
Gfish, you're right about later in the war, though early on the Jap subs had alot of success. They sank Wasp in late '42, sank Yorktown after Midway (it was damaged, but would have made it without that attack), and put a torpedo into Saratoga that sent her to drydock for several months in San Diego. Only Enterprise seemed to escape a torp hit (excluding Lex and Hornet which were sunk by aircraft). As a bonus, they also got a hit on South Dakota, and sank a few destroyers. So, in '42 the US took as much damage from subs as they did from carrier aircraft. After '42, they hardly hit anything, due to improved ASW tactics and numbers. Of course, Allied subs sank hundreds of transports during the entire war. In the South Pacific, I know they sank a CL in may of '42, but I can't remember what else.

Q-Ball -> #19 getting somewhat easier (7/15/2002 10:44:08 PM)
....at least my #19 is going better than original posting. I have picked off alot of AP's, 2 BB's, 3 CA's, Junyo and Shoho, only losing 1 CA and smaller ships. I have avoided direct engagement with JAP CV's for now, and figure I can pick off a couple with LBA, since they do tend to stray within LBA range. A couple times when they had only 3 or 4 CV's at sea, they turned tail as soon as I brought my 5 CV's out of Noumea, so they are avoiding fights too. I am not making a move until I can build up alot of LBA. Early on I mostly just built up bases and huge supply depots at Irau and Rossell Is. for later moves. Irau is very handy, Rossell Is. is good mostly for interdicting Gili Gili, plus it's easy to re-inforce. It's 10/31/02, I'm landing a small base force on Russell Is. to isolate Lunga, and have PT boats parked there to stop transports, as well as the LBA out of Irau. I hope they are very hungry there by the time I get Marines on Lunga. On the down side, those 190+ bomber strikes out of Rabaul are murdering PM. I had to pull all fighters out, there is no way you can fight that level! I have even built an airfield at Lae Lae, just to have something I can fly CAP from. But it's tough, since that strike usually brings 50 to 90 Zeros. I don't think that base will be serviceable until I take Lunga and they bomb that instead. This is the main difference between this and #17; the massive bomber strikes. I hope eventually I have enough fighters to wear that down.

segorn -> (7/16/2002 2:55:11 AM)
Counterintuitive though it may seem in an air war, the best way to deal with massive strikes out of raboul is ... Launch your own massive strikes on raboul. Its in medium bomber ranger from Lae, Buna, or the beach beside buna. Bring your mediums in at 1000 feet with or without fighter support and watch the carnage. You'll take losses, but you'll gain: 1) the JPN CAP will tire out. 2) the JPN will take casualties 3) you'll ding up the airfield and reduce the size of strikes In short, the best defense against Raboul is to neutralize raboul. You'd think the best way to deal with strikes would be defensive CAP, but in UV its evidently to launch unsupported treetop raids of your own.

Q-Ball -> (7/16/2002 4:15:26 AM)
Good point, though you need to get to Buna/Dobadura first, which is well within Naval attack range of those 200 bombers in Rabaul. The only safe way is a long march over the Kokoda Trail from PM, but because the harbor is a mess from the bombing that effort can't be supplied. Good suggestions, but I think the only way out is to: a) I have a level 4 base on Rossell Is. (near Gili Gili); maybe B-17's there can reach Rabaul. If so, good idea. I can also safely resupply this base. b) Pressure elsewhere. Lunga is isolated, and will fall. If they start bombing Lunga instead, well, at least that takes care of the PM problem. Lunga would be easier for me to CAP, due to my airfields at Irau and Russell Is, plus by then will have 10 squadrons of LB fighters c) Take Gili Gili back, at this point, a much tougher nut than Lunga. (They are successfully supplying it, but Lunga must be running out of supplies). d) Wait for their airpower to wear down through losses. When I played #17, that happened around 3/43. In #19, the JAP LBA has much more staying power, I haven't seen any drop off yet.

Raverdave -> (7/16/2002 5:19:25 AM)
I have just sent off my first PBEM move as Allied player.....I have no doubt that it is going to be an up-hill battle for the first 8 months. If I can just hold on ! I am tempted to let PNG fall, and just consentrate on the slot. If the IJN has PNG, there is not much more that he can do........use it as a jump off point for an attack on Australia? Hmmm I think not, as I have already tried this against the AI as the IJN and got whipped in the land attack on the Aussie mainland. Australia is a very hard nut to crack even when you have control of PNG.

ladner -> (7/16/2002 5:29:45 AM)
Q-ball - just to follow up on segorn's comment, which I completely agree with. I have also had success launching B-17 strikes from PM to Rabaul. Although these strikes do not take the air base out they serve to greatly reduce the slaughter of P-39 squadrons from the horde of Zeroes coming out of Rabaul. Typically, the AI is surprised by the first strike and will switch some of those fighters over to CAP. I think I may have mentioned this before on a similar thread regarding how to set the right altitude and CAP level for your fighter sqdns. as the Allies (my apologies for minor spam). Also, as an added bonus by flying at a decent altitude the Japs often are not able to intercept, granted you get diminishing returns on the bomb accuracy but the real measure of effectiveness is reducing those incomming strikes to a more tolerable level of fighters. Also, it is real fun when your B-17s take their toll with all of those lovely 50 cal MGs blazing away. It is a good thing the Japs didn't have anything like the FW 190. I've been busy lately and have just given 19 another go. I too have been conservative and avoided fleet confrontations. Decided to build up Irau early as a spring board for Lunga. Have to admit that I was surprised when the IJN rolled down the slot to bring down some serious bombardment punishment on my lowly level 1 air strip. As things progress I'll share any good strategy tips and post any note worthy events, including the defeats. One thing so far, I have changed all of the S-boats to be based from out of either Cairns or Townsville this seems to have greatly increased sub-ops for it has significantly diminished the amount of time going back to port. I would love to recapture Gilli-Gilli and turn it into a sub-base. However, Gilli-Gilli playing 19 is just a bad place to be during the early going.

segorn -> (7/16/2002 6:18:22 AM)
I'd agree. Against the AI, I've found that you can hold Port Moresby and usually buna pretty easily. Gili-Gili is a trap though; you can't supply it, so just leave it be. Whoever owns gili-gili has to try to supply it and can't. Better to let the Japanese lose APs there than you do. I also agree that defending Lunga early is pretty imparactical. Irau seems the way to go, although I have to wonder if we're seeing a failure of the AI here. After all, why would the IJN let you build up Irau to massive proportions when they have the capacity to take it? In early 19, they can take Irau easily. Otherwise, I found 19 easy in the long run. The initial Japanese rush is scary, but if you keep your fleet in being and use LBA to cut down the JPN, you'll be in a dominant position by Christmas and generally be mopping up by the summer of 1943. Allied LBA is just unstoppable as the JPN; even with all the extra forces they get. A hundred B-26s level a base, nomatter how many zeros the JPN has parked there.

Q-Ball -> (7/17/2002 1:44:27 AM)
Glad it gets easier segorn, actually things are looking up in the slot, it's 11/5/42, and we have a level 1 base with good supplies at Russell, and PT's and my LBA are taking a heavy toll on resupply AP's to Lunga. I managed to repair the airfield at PM, but the first day I based fighters there, the 200 bomber strike showed up and started pounding the airfield again, putting it out of commission. Resupply is tough, since the supplies keep getting blasted and occasionally the 200 bombers will hit the transports with ugly results. Have you guys ever used Rossell Is. before? (not Russell Is, but the one near Gili Gili). This is my first game as allies, I built a lvl 4 airfield on it, relatively easy to supply, good for bombing Gili Gili, plus you can reach Shortland.

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