That's it for me.....

That's it for me..... (Full Version)

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Reverberate -> That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:14:04 PM)
How can you continue play a game where something like this is can happen? These super subs, after finishing of two CV's, turned on and sank an escorting DD. MOI=WWI AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 27, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-24, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Saratoga, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Welles DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-10 Allied Ships CV Saratoga, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Welles DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-158, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1 CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Welles DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-10 Allied Ships CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage CLAA San Juan ues to search... Escort abandons search for sub -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-24, hits 1, heavy damage Allied Ships DD Laffey, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA Juneau DD McCalla DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Welles

Canoerebel -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:14:50 PM)
And your point is?

Reverberate -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:16:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel And your point is? That reading is not one of your strengths.......

Menser -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:18:00 PM)
It's ok man ....they just attacked the DD cause there were no more CV's to shoot.

Canoerebel -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:18:15 PM)
[:D] You lose two CVs and a DD and you think that's somehow not within the realm of possibility?

Reverberate -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:20:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel [:D] You lose two CVs and a DD and you think that's somehow not within the realm of possibility? Not in any game that I intend to play......

chesmart -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:20:52 PM)
Those sub commanders are good. Historically in the battle for the Philippine sea US subs did worse if i recall correctly.

fflaguna -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:20:57 PM)
It is already December 12th, 1941 in my PBEM and I am not seeing this issue... Also, grats to the player who was able to score all those hits. I do believe it was in another thread here. :)

jrlans -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:22:36 PM)
The only real problem i have with this is that the subs werent toasted by allied ASW and managed to get second and third shots off which to me means they were prety close to the CVs. I peronaly think that allied ASW (while by no means great in 42) is a bit understated.

Canoerebel -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:23:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Reverberate quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel [:D] You lose two CVs and a DD and you think that's somehow not within the realm of possibility? Not in any game that I intend to play...... Picking up your marbles and going home, eh?

Q-Ball -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:25:52 PM)
I completely agree, check out this BS that just happened to me. No way this could happen! AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 15, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Wasp, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage BB North Carolina CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19 Allied Ships CV Wasp, heavy fires, heavy damage BB North Carolina, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Wasp, heavy fires, heavy damage BB North Carolina CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt 3 Attacks in one phase? With 2 ships sunk? Borked!

jrlans -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:28:27 PM)
where are the DDs? After the first 3 hits there should be no place for the sub to hide let alone reload and relaunch. Honestly if allied asw was this bad germany would have forced britian into peace by destroying every merchant in the atlantic.

Altaris -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:29:09 PM)
I'm not going to say the results are anywhere near feasible, but I am finding in my games that if you stick at least 8 DDs in a TF, it pretty much nullifies sub attacks. Anything less than that runs this danger. Not sure why 8 seems to be the magic number, but I've yet to have any successful sub attacks against any TF with this many DDs in it. So I just use that as a rule of thumb, for important TFs, I always go with at least 8 DDs.

Jones944 -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:31:21 PM)
Too funny! [:'(]

WLockard -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:33:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I completely agree, check out this BS that just happened to me. No way this could happen! AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 15, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Wasp, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage BB North Carolina CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19 Allied Ships CV Wasp, heavy fires, heavy damage BB North Carolina, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Wasp, heavy fires, heavy damage BB North Carolina CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt 3 Attacks in one phase? With 2 ships sunk? Borked! Taking over Knaveys job? [8D]

pasternakski -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:35:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I completely agree, check out this BS that just happened to me. No way this could happen! ... 3 Attacks in one phase? With 2 ships sunk? Borked! Q-Ball, you dawg, how long you think it'll take before somebody catches on?

CapAndGown -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:36:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I completely agree, check out this BS that just happened to me. No way this could happen! AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 15, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Wasp, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage BB North Carolina CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19 Allied Ships CV Wasp, heavy fires, heavy damage BB North Carolina, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Wasp, heavy fires, heavy damage BB North Carolina CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt 3 Attacks in one phase? With 2 ships sunk? Borked! The game is broken!!!! Any game that can exactly replicate history is totally borked! PS: Don't these examples come up just about every year on this board? I remember doing one of these "the game is broken" posts as far back as UV.

Q-Ball -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:37:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pasternakski quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I completely agree, check out this BS that just happened to me. No way this could happen! ... 3 Attacks in one phase? With 2 ships sunk? Borked! Q-Ball, you dawg, how long you think it'll take before somebody catches on? About 60 seconds........check out the DD names

pasternakski -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:38:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WLockard Taking over Knaveys job? [8D] OK, OK, y'all are quicker than I thought. One lesson to be learned, of course, is that, in AE as in real life, there's a lot more to ASW protection of capital ships than just jamming a bunch of mediocre, early-war DDs into a TF with them.

pasternakski -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:40:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball Q-Ball, you dawg, how long you think it'll take before somebody catches on? About 60 seconds........check out the DD names Too bad you didn't have room to include the Air Farce, the Smarmy, and the beloved Corpse.

Brady -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:42:22 PM)
Thiers nothing unrealistic about subs atacking multiple targets in the same phase, whats unrealistic is that normaly in WiTP/AE subs only target one ship at a time.

TSCofield -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:50:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pasternakski quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I completely agree, check out this BS that just happened to me. No way this could happen! ... 3 Attacks in one phase? With 2 ships sunk? Borked! Q-Ball, you dawg, how long you think it'll take before somebody catches on? As soon as you see the date and the USS Wasp it should have become crystal clear.

Nemo121 -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:51:08 PM)
Whenever you have a statistical model there is the possibility for "kinks" to appear in that model ( sometimes known as hockey stick phenomena as there's a gradual rise or fall along most of the spectrum and then at one point results stop being linear and being being geometric. MVR values of 36 represented the beginning of the kink in A2A combat in WiTP. Someone back in the days of WiTP ( I'm sorry but I forget who ) did a lot of work figuring out the surface combat rules and it became pretty clear that TFs of 8 ships ( up to 4 battleline ships and 4 escorts ) did exceedingly well in combat as they maximised the likelihood that all ships would enter combat etc. I've always found that 8 tends to be a bit of a magic number for surface combat. I can't say for certain but what I will say is this... I have a habit of putting 8 DDs in CV TFs - 2 CVs, 2 CAs, 1 BB and 2 CLAAs ( or maybe just 3 CAs if I don't have a fast BB ) plus 8 DDs. Since I've been doing that I've never had a single torpedo hit on those CV TFs. Obviously if everyone starts doing this the sheer number of intercepts will mean sometime, somewhere a sub will get lucky but war, life and this game is all about uncertainty and maximising the odds in one's favour. It is NOT about certainty and having some simple "if x then y" causality.

Brady -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:54:32 PM)
I-19's TROM: 15 September 1942: At 0950, while running submerged, the sound operator reports a contact with many heavy screws at 12-18S, 164-15E. Kinashi orders I-19 to periscope depth. He makes a sweep with his 'scope but no ships are in sight. 250 miles SE of Guadalcanal. Captain (later Admiral) Forrest P. Sherman's USS WASP and Captain Charles P. Mason's (later Rear Admiral) HORNET (CV-8) are escorting a reinforcement convoy of six transports carrying the 7th Marine Regiment from Espiritu Santo to reinforce Guadalcanal. The carriers are steaming in sight of each other about 8 miles apart. Each carrier forms the nucleus of a task force. Captain George H. Fort's (later Rear Admiral) battleship USS NORTH CAROLINA (BB-55) is with the HORNET task force to the NE of the WASP force. At 1050, Kinashi raises his periscope again. This time he sees a carrier, a heavy cruiser and several destroyers (Rear Admiral Leigh Noyes' Task Force 18) bearing 045T at 9 miles. Kinashi estimates the task force's course at 330 and begins a slow approach. The Americans, zigzagging at 16 knots, change course to WNW. Then at 1120, the target group again changes course -this time to SSE. WASP makes a slow left turn into the wind to launch and recover her aircraft - and heads toward the I-19. Kinashi estimates that his target is on course 130 degrees making 12 knots. At 1145, from 50 degrees starboard, he fires a spread of six Type 95 oxygen-propelled torpedoes at the enemy carrier from 985 yards. Two or possibly three hit the WASP and start an uncontrollable fire. HORNET force continues a right turn to a 280 degree base course. Suddenly, an alarm is heard the tactical radio speakers from USS LANSDOWNE (DD-486) in the WASP's screen "... torpedo headed for formation, course 080!" At 1152, a torpedo from I-19's salvo hits NORTH CAROLINA in her port bow abreast of her forward main battery turret. The blast holes the side protection below the armor belt and NORTH CAROLINA takes on a thousand tons of water. She takes on a five-degree list but counter flooding quickly levels her and she makes 25 knots. [3] At 1154, a torpedo hits destroyer O'BRIEN's (DD-415) port quarter and another just misses HORNET. [4] I-19 dives to 265 feet under the carrier's wake. The first depth charge explodes six minutes after the last torpedo hit. Soon the depth charges were exploding all around. American destroyers try to surround I-19 to attack together and finish her off. They rain down 30 depth charges. At noon, WASP's avgas tanks explode. At 1515, two cruisers and destroyers abandon WASP and withdraw to the south. At 1520, Captain Sherman orders "Abandon Ship". The carrier is scuttled by five torpedoes from LANSDOWNE and sinks by the bow at about 2100. WASP suffers 193 killed and 367 wounded. O,and-I-19 was not damaged in this atack.

CarnageINC -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/2/2010 11:55:56 PM)
I guess we should wish Reverberate a 'Bye' [sm=Crazy-1271.gif] couldn't resist [8D]

eMonticello -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/3/2010 12:48:47 AM)
Where's Paul Harvey when you need him? We really need the rest of the story... were the task force(s) parked off Russell Island and, if so, how many days?

Titanwarrior89 -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/3/2010 12:49:56 AM)
Understand were your coming from. But it is possible. More so for sub attacks than midway type results. So hang in there. As for the response you get from some people in here. Forget e'm! Not all in here are that way. You fine some things correct with the game and some out of whack.[;)] quote: ORIGINAL: Reverberate How can you continue play a game where something like this is can happen? These super subs, after finishing of two CV's, turned on and sank an escorting DD. MOI=WWI AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 27, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-24, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Saratoga, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Welles DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-10 Allied Ships CV Saratoga, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Welles DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-158, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1 CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Welles DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-10 Allied Ships CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage CLAA San Juan ues to search... Escort abandons search for sub -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack near Russell Islands at 112,137 Japanese Ships SS I-24, hits 1, heavy damage Allied Ships DD Laffey, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA Juneau DD McCalla DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Welles

Menser -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/3/2010 1:09:05 AM)
True Titan. in a "simulation" game this large with an old engine, Modders have been squeezing the most they can get from it (Kudo's to the Henderson Field Team). Some things the engine won't be able to handle and we'll just have to live with them.

Mynok -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/3/2010 1:25:48 AM)
Well he's certainly within his rights to quit playing. But it will be his loss.

Kwik E Mart -> RE: That's it for me..... (3/3/2010 1:28:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I completely agree, check out this BS that just happened to me. No way this could happen! AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 15, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Wasp, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage BB North Carolina CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19 Allied Ships CV Wasp, heavy fires, heavy damage BB North Carolina, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Lunga at 114,139 Japanese Ships SS I-19, hits 1 Allied Ships CV Wasp, heavy fires, heavy damage BB North Carolina CA Canberra CA Vincennes CA Chicago CL Boise CLAA San Juan DD O'Brien, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD Laffey DD Perkins DD Cushing DD Knavey DD Farenholt 3 Attacks in one phase? With 2 ships sunk? Borked! This is even WORSE than history...the I-19 did her dirty work with one salvo, correct? This appears to be three separate attacks... Q-Ball, you got some 'spaining to do! [:-]

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