The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (Full Version)

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Wade1000 -> The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/4/2010 11:57:55 PM)

The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average.

Some may dismiss an opening cinematic as inconsequential, but I don't think it really is. I think that an opening cinematic is another important feature that helps legitimize a game's potential quality and show the companies' dedication, confidence, and conviction to their product to any skeptical new players. It might have enough neat, game introductory, essence to let them keep trying a game and come to enjoy the game.

I agree, that an opening cenematic will be less important to veteran players as they continue over time to play a game but it is important to raise interest of many new players and continue to help expand the introduction of and success of a game.

The opening cenematic may be just as important a feature in a game as any other features included or wished for.



Sarissofoi -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 12:29:41 AM)

Dont bother.
You can make good trailer later. After game will be realesed.
Opening movie?
Dont bother. Waste time and resources.



Wade1000 -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 1:17:22 AM)

That's what several have said in other forums of similiar games after I had made a similiar post about opening cenematics. Those games did not release with one and, in the end, right now, the games and their forums seem very unpopular.

Is it a correlation to not having an opening cinematic? Probably not but one would have been interesting and maybe helped as I describe in my original post in this thread.



EisenHammer -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 1:34:36 AM)

MoO and SEIV had no opening cinematic and both games are very popular.
And it would take too much time, I say forget about it.
I want the game now.



Aurelian -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:02:15 AM)

Given a choice, I always forgoe it.



Wade1000 -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:04:45 AM)

I understand that. That's why I stated, "I agree, that an opening cenematic will be less important to veteran players as they continue over time to play a game but it is important to raise interest of many new players and continue to help expand the introduction of and success of a game. "



Aurelian -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:15:22 AM)

Ahh, but as a non veteran player of the upcoming DW, I'll forgoe it right from the start.



Sarissofoi -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:17:20 AM)

<facepalm>
OMG.
This is no problem if it has opening movie or not.
The problem is limited money and resources. You can invest them in opening movie or other non vital crap or spend them to make gameplay better.
If you really want get attentions of noobies you must make a great marketing show.
You know make hype about it. Pay some hard cash to revievers, buy some TV time, send gifts to PCgames papers, something like that.

Games with low attention have low attention beoze they are
a)crappy
B)buggy
c)simply bad and unplayable
d)they are unfinished
e)lack of good marketing show
f)all of upper answers
These can be becoze lack of ideas, skills time or MONEY. Becoze if you have money you can buy(i mean hire) people with ideas and skills and give them enough time to make them good use of their awesome skills.
And in this times it is always money.
You must learn that life is a game when you have limited resources and thx to this very limited choice.

Screw intro, release game already.



Aurelian -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:32:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi

<facepalm>
OMG.
This is no problem if it has opening movie or not.
The problem is limited money and resources. You can invest them in opening movie or other non vital crap or spend them to make gameplay better.
If you really want get attentions of noobies you must make a great marketing show.
You know make hype about it. Pay some hard cash to revievers, buy some TV time, send gifts to PCgames papers, something like that.

Games with low attention have low attention beoze they are
a)crappy
B)buggy
c)simply bad and unplayable
d)they are unfinished
e)lack of good marketing show
f)all of upper answers
These can be becoze lack of ideas, skills time or MONEY. Becoze if you have money you can buy(i mean hire) people with ideas and skills and give them enough time to make them good use of their awesome skills.
And in this times it is always money.
You must learn that life is a game when you have limited resources and thx to this very limited choice.

Screw intro, release game already.



Well, that is true. Oscar level opening movies will not save a horrible game, while the lack of or a horrible one will not hurt a great game.

MOO2 didn't have one, and it was a great game. MOO3 did have one, and it was a train wreck.



Wade1000 -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:38:07 AM)

quote:

MOO2 didn't have one, and it was a great game. MOO3 did have one, and it was a train wreck.


Master of Orion 2 DID have a an opening cinematic. It featured an Antaran attack on a station and a fighter or small ship being launched to face them.



Sarissofoi -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:44:46 AM)

Bah, it dosent matter if game has stunning openning or not.
People will be remeber game for gameplay not for intro.
As for your example MoO II has opening and many people dont remember, dont care about it. Why? Becoze gameplay is that things what matter the most.



Wade1000 -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:52:36 AM)

I agree that gameplay is very important. I didn't say that it wasn't.



martok -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 3:54:29 AM)

Wade,

While I understand where you're coming from -- Birth of the Federation and Sword of the Stars are both 4x games that have pretty good intro movies that help set the "tone" -- I disagree as to their actual importance. Initially, intro cinematics might help capture players' imaginations, but it's the gameplay that will really stick out in the end.

Since I strongly suspect Codeforce probably lacks the money -- and just as (if not more) importantly, the time -- to do one, I'd say just let it be. Intro cinematics can be fun, but they're not necessary. (Also, there's the risk the intro movie will be poor, which IMHO is worse than no opening intro at all.)




Aurelian -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 5:07:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

quote:

MOO2 didn't have one, and it was a great game. MOO3 did have one, and it was a train wreck.


Master of Orion 2 DID have a an opening cinematic. It featured an Antaran attack on a station and a fighter or small ship being launched to face them.


Ahh, I forgot. But it doesn't alter the fact that an intro movie has no bearing on how good a game is. It isn't a feature. It's more like a marketing tool. It does not legitimize a game's potential quality and show the companies' dedication, confidence, and conviction toward its product. And you don't need a marketing tool on your hard drive once you've bought the game.

That is done by a top notch product. With gameplay to match. With support to match. If DW succeeds in that, an intro movie is wasted space. If it fails, an intro cinematic will not matter.




DivePac88 -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 6:19:32 AM)

Remember the three must-have attributes of any good game; Game-play, Game-play, Game-play.



Delta_V -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 6:22:56 AM)

Are we seriously talking about this?  Now, I will say that the opening cinematic on certain types of games is important...I will never forget the opening cinematic to Wing Commander II, III, or IV for instance but I just don't see where it has any relevance on the success of THIS game.  This is a 4X game, not a grand sweeping interactive movie.  An opening cinematic in this game is just one more thing I have to press ESC for before I can start playing.



lordxorn -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 6:49:20 AM)

Once I see the opening movie, I always look for a way to disable because now it is just one more thing I have to skip to get to playing. Now in game movies are the game maker. For example, in Moo2 when you Stellar Converted a planet, the cinematic is the ultimate fulfillment of your power, and so satisfying to see. [sm=00000619.gif]



eltharion -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 8:50:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000
quote:

MOO2 didn't have one, and it was a great game. MOO3 did have one, and it was a train wreck.

Master of Orion 2 DID have a an opening cinematic. It featured an Antaran attack on a station and a fighter or small ship being launched to face them.


I remember it... a short intro but a powerfull one
When the sole fighter goes vs Antaran i was forced (almost)
to tribute him a military salute [:D]

Anyway a good and short intro is good...
a short or long wreck intro.... is horrible... for new player and pubblicity.
Better make a solid and playable game.
If a game is playable, funny, and (almost) bug-free i think it will sales from himself.

Maybe a good intro will be when the game coes gold. [;)]



adamsolo -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 10:08:01 AM)

I agree with Wade. An opening cinematic (at launch, at game start, at campaign start, whatever) is important to set the atmosphere. You must not forget that many of us are core players that don't care that much about details, however for the less core players or casual players its important to have some features to smooth your way into the game and help set the mood and right atmosphere.

Examples of memorable intros: Dune2, Fallout, Red Alert, Half Life, Civilization IV.
And space strategy games do normally offer intros: Homeworld, Homeworld2, MOO2, SOTS, Sins of a Solar Empire (quite good by the way).

The intros don't have to be long and don't have to be fantastic. A short introduction of the game to the player is however an important feature in my opinion.



Wade1000 -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 10:56:56 AM)

Thankyou, Adamsolo. I just watched the YouTube, Sins of a Solar Empire intro. I will watch the sequals and Sword of the Stars and Homeworld intros also.
It's very good. It's not even a motion picture but instead the stylish form of still artwork pictures that are slowly zoomed in or out or panned sideways during a narative story and music. Maybe that is easier and faster to do and maybe some thing the developers of Distant Worlds can consider.
-----

I think that style of narative story with slowly zoomed and panned pictures was made popular by Ken Burns, the American director and producer and cinematographer of documentary films. Among his most notable productions are The Civil War (1990), Baseball (1994), Jazz (2001), The War (2007), and The National Parks: America's Best Idea (2009).

I saw some parts of them. 'The War' is most notable to me.
-----

I was thinking, people watching game intro cinematics on YouTube and commenting on them there and other forums and linking them is a one of many great ways to promote a game. Of course, the game needs the Intro/opening cimematic.



Okim -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 11:51:39 AM)

quote:

I agree with Wade. An opening cinematic (at launch, at game start, at campaign start, whatever) is important to set the atmosphere. You must not forget that many of us are core players that don't care that much about details, however for the less core players or casual players its important to have some features to smooth your way into the game and help set the mood and right atmosphere.


Agreed. A good game should have a good and atmospheric into.

P.S.: Does Half Life actually has any intro? I remember only being thrown directly into game to conduct an experiment. No videos explaining what`s going on.



adamsolo -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 12:03:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Okim
P.S.: Does Half Life actually has any intro? I remember only being thrown directly into game to conduct an experiment. No videos explaining what`s going on.


In Half Life (and 2) they were creative and clever. They used the game engine itself to create the intro. So the intro is an introduction to the environment with no need for interaction. After this intro you are set to go ..



ASHBERY76 -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 12:13:23 PM)

The game is made by a small team on a tight budget.I do not see a great intro as a priority.



Baleur -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 12:30:13 PM)

I understand what you are trying to say, but its just wrong / not true :)
The quality of an opening cinematic has no correlation to how well the game does, or how fond people are of it.
The Starcraft 2 beta has no opening cinematic, yet its hugely popular already (say what you want, i'm trying to stay true to YOUR concept, and it has no opening cinematic now :P )
Warhammer Online had an AMAZING intro, yet the game fell into the shadows (sad cuz i really liked it).
EVE Online had no intro what so ever, yet its still alive and growing.
Mass Effect 1 and 2 had no intro either (the ingame cinematic after creating a character isnt an introduction cinematic, its part of the gameplay), yet see how well that did.

When i look at an intro the first time i boot up a game, i honestly dont care. If its CGI, it serves as a few minutes of "meh, that was kinda cool" moments, and if its ingame it usually serves as a few minutes of "hm, why didnt they turn on anti-aliasing?" moments.
Then i always skip it, i dont care. Why would i want to repeat a mediocre introduction trailer, when i own and can play the actual game?
As for conveying the story, if a game focuses on conveying the majority of the story through an introduction movie, they are mistaken. Most people wont watch it, and that usually just means that the game has no story.
This can apply to Sword of The Stars + expansions, who pretty much only have a story in their intros, not in the actual gameplay.
Horrible horribly intros, yet those games did very well.

There is no correlation.



Anguille -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 1:57:31 PM)

The game has an intro...[;)]



Justascratch -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 2:53:28 PM)

A small start-up takes potential investors out for a big expensive dinner. But, they will decide to invest based on the viability of the business plan - regardless of how impressed they are with the menu.



ypsylon -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 3:11:24 PM)

I think best intro ever was in Syndicate (not Syndicate Wars, the original one). A masterpiece and it jumped sometimes like a frog on good old 386DX but it was great - still have it.

In all honestly over past hmm some... years I only watched 4 or 5 intros more than once. In overwhelming majority of cases I renaming/deleting intro so it won't load again. Looking forward to DW as a game not mega-buck$ intro. [:)]



Erik Rutins -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 3:23:16 PM)

The intros on most AAA games referenced here probably cost more than the entire budget of DW. DW has an intro movie, but I also disagree that intro movies have any real correlation with game quality _for independent / small publisher games_ where the limited budget is better used in other areas.



drillerman -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 4:28:32 PM)

For some reason one of the best intro movies I ever enjoyed was MoO3. I don't know why, it just made me uneasy! I also really enjoyed the back story for MoO3 which is still available through the Quicksilver website here:  http://moo3.quicksilver.com/game/background.html 
It's a shame I didn't enjoy the actual game much.



martok -> RE: The Opening Cinematic;don't disregard it,even if it's brief and average. (3/5/2010 7:18:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Justascratch

A small start-up takes potential investors out for a big expensive dinner. But, they will decide to invest based on the viability of the business plan - regardless of how impressed they are with the menu.

Well said.




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