How to upgrade units to George??? (Full Version)

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CV Zuikaku -> How to upgrade units to George??? (3/7/2010 10:54:23 PM)

I have a big problem! I have commited many efforts to speed up the arrival of N1K1-J fighters earlier... and now have more than 100 in the pool, but am able to upgrade only one A6M3 unit. PDUs are on, and this drives me nuts becouse I planned to upgrade all elite zero sentais to Georges, and now it seems I wasted time and supplies to nothing. Why it is impossible to upgrade zeroes to Georges with PDUs on? Upgrading to A6M5s also don't help since A6M5 is not path to George? Can something be done about that? I'm demoralized now... [:(]



Mark Weston -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/7/2010 11:17:16 PM)

Well I think the answer is that all the squadrons that start with Claudes or Zeros are carrier capable and therefore won't allow an upgrade to non-carrier-capable aircraft.

This does raise the question of how useful the George actually can be, and I hadn't considered this problem until you posted. Shame, because it looks like a very nice plane.

P.S. How much earlier did you manage to push it?



CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/7/2010 11:40:12 PM)

May '43. Along with A6M5. And now , I have an excellent figter which I can mass produce and some strange rules preventing me from upgrading units to it! Come on, what are PDUs for if I can not upgrade navy fighter unit to any navy fighter!!?? If I wanted that limitations I'd put PDUs off from the start... This is wrong...



khyberbill -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 12:23:26 AM)

If it makes you feel any better, Allies I have similar problems. I can only upgrade Marine F4F's to Corsairs.



P.Hausser -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 1:23:41 AM)

The Jap's get ONLY 5 Groups of Navy Fighters who can be Jack's or George !
So, serial producing the Jack or George is... well, would been nice but.. They way they have set it up makes your Navy Fighter Air Force useless as soon as you hit little into 43.



viberpol -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 2:14:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

The Jap's get ONLY 5 Groups of Navy Fighters who can be Jack's or George !
So, serial producing the Jack or George is... well, would been nice but.. They way they have set it up makes your Navy Fighter Air Force useless as soon as you hit little into 43.


Sorry, but IMHO it's not true.
CV Zuikaku, just take a look at this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2315507&mpage=1&key=

Sometimes, some upgrade can open a new path. When you upgrade a squadron to A6M5 it opens.
But it stil looks as if some groups will never be able to upgrade into Georges or Jacks...



n01487477 -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 2:47:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol


quote:

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

The Jap's get ONLY 5 Groups of Navy Fighters who can be Jack's or George !
So, serial producing the Jack or George is... well, would been nice but.. They way they have set it up makes your Navy Fighter Air Force useless as soon as you hit little into 43.


Sorry, but IMHO it's not true.
CV Zuikaku, just take a look at this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2315507&mpage=1&key=

Sometimes, some upgrade can open a new path. When you upgrade a squadron to A6M5 it opens.
But it stil looks as if some groups will never be able to upgrade into Georges or Jacks...

Viperpool is correct, some upgrades do open up more options ... here is a look from Tracker (yes I know that it doesn't show all the upgrades if you unlock ... but I'm working on it)



[image]local://upfiles/19798/A8795C57E2B04EA188199557502A6DE2.jpg[/image]



CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 9:19:12 AM)

Thank you all, I've been experimenting last night and here are the results. The status of an airgroup opens upgrade paths. Carrier trained groups have the least options and can upgrade only to carrier fighters (Zeroes and Reppus). Carrier capable groups have similar upgrade paths, but when upgraded to A6M5 the path opens to later versions of George. And that is useless until late '44. Third type of groups are neither carrier trained or capable. And they can upgrade to anything. And now I need to know is there any way for carrier trained/capable groups to lose their status and became normal land based groups. Hope there is some. And I still can not understand why we are unable to upgrade groups to anything we want with PDUs on. Maybe something could be done in the future patch... And what to do now with hundreds of N1K1s if I have to stuck with aging A6M2s... [:@]



LoBaron -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 2:12:28 PM)

)
quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Thank you all, I've been experimenting last night and here are the results. The status of an airgroup opens upgrade paths. Carrier trained groups have the least options and can upgrade only to carrier fighters (Zeroes and Reppus). Carrier capable groups have similar upgrade paths, but when upgraded to A6M5 the path opens to later versions of George. And that is useless until late '44. Third type of groups are neither carrier trained or capable. And they can upgrade to anything. And now I need to know is there any way for carrier trained/capable groups to lose their status and became normal land based groups. Hope there is some. And I still can not understand why we are unable to upgrade groups to anything we want with PDUs on. Maybe something could be done in the future patch... And what to do now with hundreds of N1K1s if I have to stuck with aging A6M2s... [:@]



Thats an example of hard a devīs work is, sometimes. [:D]

In stock everybode complained about how unrealistic it is that Japan can field 1000īs of late war high performance fighters or every US CV stuffed to the throat with uber Corsairs
and when they find a solution that is elegant (and historically rewarding [;)] ) people want the opposite again.

I like it this way personally because it forces to play a bit closer to history.




P.Hausser -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 2:57:50 PM)

HOW many groups in TOTAL can become Geroge (prior to 1944) ! 

Is it correct that some Carrier Capable A6M3 reinforcement groups can upgrade to the non Carrier Capable George anyway ?
(PDU ON) This is important to my personal strategy, is it possible to acces a relieble list ?

[&:][&:]



P.Hausser -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 3:10:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


In stock everybode complained about how unrealistic it is that Japan can field 1000īs of late war high performance fighters





Why is it unrealistic ?
Japan historically build 3300 Franks, - and if - they wanted I'm sure they could made 3300 Georges instead of the Frank's.
If they had made the industrial investments necessary then maybe they could have made both.



LoBaron -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 4:17:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


In stock everybode complained about how unrealistic it is that Japan can field 1000īs of late war high performance fighters





Why is it unrealistic ?
Japan historically build 3300 Franks, - and if - they wanted I'm sure they could made 3300 Georges instead of the Frank's.
If they had made the industrial investments necessary then maybe they could have made both.



Sorry if I wasnīt clear enough.
The OP referred to the limited upgrade path of CV based fighters and so my answer referred to CV based fighters.

Japan is still able to produce loads of land based high performance fighters, just not able to put some types on carriers.
And I truly love the simple solution by limiting the upgrade paths of carrier squads.

You can check the upgrade paths in AE tracker, Wonderful tool btw. [:)]




CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 4:38:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron



Thats an example of hard a devīs work is, sometimes. [:D]

In stock everybode complained about how unrealistic it is that Japan can field 1000īs of late war high performance fighters or every US CV stuffed to the throat with uber Corsairs
and when they find a solution that is elegant (and historically rewarding [;)] ) people want the opposite again.

I like it this way personally because it forces to play a bit closer to history.




Those who want to play it historical or close to history have the option to switch PDUs off! What's the use of PDUs switched ON if we are unable to upgrade group to whatever plane we want?! I'm playing vs. AI and do not want to play historical way. I want to change few things. I do not want to put Franks or Georges to carriers, just to eqouip land baseg navy FGs with N1K1s. So ,is there any way for airgroup to lose carrier capable status or not?



LoBaron -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 4:44:40 PM)

Sometimes a little trick helps: downgrad to an older type and reupgrade to a new path.

I am not totally sure but this could work.

Edit: Iīve never tried this yet, but read about it.



CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/8/2010 6:50:27 PM)

Downgrading do not open new paths also.... [:@]



PaxMondo -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 9:08:25 AM)

Or mod the George to be carrier capable and then a house rule that forbids them being used on CV's except for transport.  That lets them be used how you wish.  Particularly useful if you lose a CV, but not the airgroups.



CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 9:14:37 AM)

That won't help me with campaign in progress... I'll need to restart ,and I don't want to do that....



n01487477 -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 9:34:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Or mod the George to be carrier capable and then a house rule that forbids them being used on CV's except for transport.  That lets them be used how you wish.  Particularly useful if you lose a CV, but not the airgroups.
I still think a mod that allows them to have them downgrade to the M3 and then upgrade is the best solution ... no HR's involved.




chesmart -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 10:44:03 AM)

Is It a Regular Scenario or a Custom Scenario ?



LoBaron -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 10:49:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

That won't help me with campaign in progress... I'll need to restart ,and I don't want to do that....


Does it really have to mean you need to restart?

It is admittedly VERY annoying but you have (non CV) squads that work fine with George.
You just need to find a fitting upgrade for your CV squads.



CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 12:04:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

That won't help me with campaign in progress... I'll need to restart ,and I don't want to do that....


Does it really have to mean you need to restart?

It is admittedly VERY annoying but you have (non CV) squads that work fine with George.
You just need to find a fitting upgrade for your CV squads.



I don't want to upgrade CV groups to George. Just land based ones. E.g. Tainan daitai and others. And I have only 2 non CV groups that upgrade to N1K1. And most of my industry is modified to pump out large numbers of N1K1s with A6M5s cut down to only 2o per month (only for carriers). And I don't have supplies any more to afford another large scale retooling. And that is very frustrating situation! [:(]



castor troy -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 12:47:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

That won't help me with campaign in progress... I'll need to restart ,and I don't want to do that....


Does it really have to mean you need to restart?

It is admittedly VERY annoying but you have (non CV) squads that work fine with George.
You just need to find a fitting upgrade for your CV squads.



I don't want to upgrade CV groups to George. Just land based ones. E.g. Tainan daitai and others. And I have only 2 non CV groups that upgrade to N1K1. And most of my industry is modified to pump out large numbers of N1K1s with A6M5s cut down to only 2o per month (only for carriers). And I don't have supplies any more to afford another large scale retooling. And that is very frustrating situation! [:(]




If itīs an AI game I would just start over. If itīs a PBEM that has gone already that far, perhaps you could ask one of the devs to look at it for you. AFAIK those guys are able to change the db of ongoing games. Worth a try I guess.



CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 3:59:35 PM)

No, it is not PBEM. Hardly got time to play vs. AI few times a week. Don't want to restart, but it's unplayable like this... just don't have enough navy planes to fight... except N1K1s which I can not use...



chesmart -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 4:01:42 PM)

Is it an original scenario ?



P.Hausser -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 4:19:09 PM)

Can the code be changed during play?  Ie. Can both players in a PBEM install a "mod" after the game has started ?



CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 5:00:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: che200

Is it an original scenario ?


No. It is GC #2 with the addition of 3 training groups (from '41) for Japanese player. And that is the only modification...



chesmart -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 5:05:51 PM)

So it is a modded scenario. You can edit the upgrade paths of aircraft through the editor and update the game.



chesmart -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 5:12:49 PM)

Find the squadrons that you want to upgrade in your editor and change there upgrade path then save. Load the scenario it will inform you that the game data has changed and if you want to continue press y and you have the george.

Hope you can save your game this way



CV Zuikaku -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 6:17:26 PM)

Thanks, I'll try that. But I think that scenario changes do not affect games in progress....



chesmart -> RE: How to upgrade units to George??? (3/9/2010 6:42:23 PM)

Yes in AE you can change non original scenarios with the editor. Just change a few of the squadrons you want to upgrade and save the game will accept it.
Try it you have nothing to lose.



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