Where are the Americans?

Where are the Americans? (Full Version)

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Pistachio -> Where are the Americans? (3/11/2010 8:28:03 PM)
First - great game. Second - nobody take offense because this is not another one of those "Americans are better at everything" trolling threads. I honestly would like to know why the United States is not represented in COGEE. The Napoleonic Wars were directly responsible for the founding of the embryonic U.S. Navy. Impressment and failed diplomacy led to war with Britain and icy relations with France. By the War of 1812, the U.S. merchant marine was probably the largest in the entire world and as the U.S. was a neutral power, ship owners made astronomical profits by representing practically the only nation on earth that traded with both France and Britain. During the War of 1812, a handful of U.S. frigates seriously harrassed the British right off their own Isles and in the Channel approaches. In other words, even though it was a hemisphere away, what went on in N. America was extremely significant to the European course of events, and Western Civ completely left it out. WTF?[&:]

steel god -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/11/2010 8:53:21 PM)
The US should be left out because the Napoleonic Wars are a European affair which did not involve the US in any significant way. As a big fan of the US Navy in general, and in it' infancy in particular, I agree that this period is a fascinating time with Prebble's Boys and the Six Frigate Navy, but seriously, a frigate counter in COGEE represents 10 Frigates. That's larger than the entire US Fleet in 1805, and even by 1812 is going to be less than 2 counters. Great stories but small potatoes compared to the scale of warfare in Europe.

Pistachio -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/11/2010 9:43:28 PM)
Yes, the U.S. 44's would only make up a counter or two, but I strongly disagree about the size and impact of those potatoes because the war wasn't limited to combat ships. Look at it the other way. Hundreds and hundreds of unescorted American merchants that should there for the taking and which would constitute a source of labor for Britain or a supply of food for France. Textiles all around. Diplomatically, there was quite a bit of dissent caused within Britain because the Royal Navy wasn't supposed to strike, and certainly not to a yankee. I only mean to say that the limited combat power of the U.S. caused a disproportionately larger political problem in terms of public opinion. My quibble isn't with the naval combat model of the game (I'm actually very glad to have it as I really miss not having it in Forge of Freedom) as much as it is with the fact that the economic/diplomatic model is missing a significant component. This is all just my 2 cents, of course.

Kingmaker -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/11/2010 10:36:35 PM)
HiHi Pistachio, the US is represented in CoG EE, they periodically declare war on England, especially if England is Blockading other nations, and apparently, if not handled firmly and quickly can be a bit of a nuisance (seem to recall they will also DoW on france) All the Best Peter

Pistachio -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/12/2010 4:22:11 AM)
Thanks Peter - that is good news! Wonder why they aren't in the nations list? Or do they appear as a historical event (like abolishing slavery)? Maybe I just haven't played enough yet! FYI I'm playing the digital download version with comp. patch 1.0.9 - I didn't see a newer one. Thanks again!

terje439 -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/12/2010 11:25:10 AM)
If you check the different reports (guess it is political), once in a while you will see the US issue a DoW on Britain (if, as Kingmaker said, Britain is blockading ports).

Pistachio -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/13/2010 11:58:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: terje439 If you check the different reports (guess it is political), once in a while you will see the US issue a DoW on Britain (if, as Kingmaker said, Britain is blockading ports). Yes, although I still kind of wish there were American merchants to go privateering against, I just had "U.S. attacks Tripoli/reduces Tripolitan privateers" - so the Yanks are around after all, and my apologies for speaking in haste before. EDIT: It pays to RTFM, folks[:o].... quote: The United States is an independent country which is not represented on the map. Nevertheless, it has a fleet of merchants, as well as a military fleet when it is at war. Each turn, there is a chance that the United States will send a merchant ship onto the strategic map, and it will then move about the sea zones and collect income. The US also has an opportunity to declare war on countries that are blockading ports. If it does so, it will send a military fleet, and will engage in war until its fleet is reduced to fewer than 6 ships total. The United States cannot be conquered, and can never become any nation’s protectorate.

Mus -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/14/2010 12:54:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kingmaker Pistachio, the US is represented in CoG EE, they periodically declare war on England, especially if England is Blockading other nations, and apparently, if not handled firmly and quickly can be a bit of a nuisance (seem to recall they will also DoW on france) AFAIK US will DOW anyone who is blockading ports and interfering with their trade, this just tends to be GB. One thing I have noticed is that the American "AI" just leaves American merchant fleets in the N Atlantic and doesn't move them. The American merchant fleet is supposed to move into trading areas I assume and start interferring with Britains monopoly on trade, but this does not occur. Something to look at for the patch and I believe it has already been raised as a point.

Pistachio -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/15/2010 7:16:47 PM)
Yes, just got a DoW from them for blockading French ports. Haven't seen any units (merchant or otherwise) yet. I'll keep a lookout for them, though, and see what, if anything, they do. EDIT: Well, so far, all the U.S. has done is the getting angry and declaring war part. They have now declared war 7 or 8 times, in fact, but I haven't seen any merchants or hostile fleets yet. So that appears to confirm what Mus said.

Pistachio -> RE: Where are the Americans? (3/22/2010 5:12:25 PM)
One more update. The U.S. will also declare war on Russia. Still no units, though. So presumably they'll declare war on anybody in the game (as it should be) but the units appearing function is broken. Hope this gets fixed.

LexLegis -> RE: Where are the Americans? (5/8/2010 11:33:58 AM)
Hundreds and hundreds of unescorted American merchants that should there for the taking and which would constitute a source of labor for Britain or a supply of food for France. Textiles all around. Well, sorry to disappoint you, but in 1800, the US had but 5 Million inhabitants. Therefore, they were not a major concern for the european powers. This can be seen quite clearly, as the us had no influence at all on the conditions of the peace of vienna later on. Diplomatically, there was quite a bit of dissent caused within Britain because the Royal Navy wasn't supposed to strike, and certainly not to a yankee. I only mean to say that the limited combat power of the U.S. caused a disproportionately larger political problem in terms of public opinion. My quibble isn't with the naval combat model of the game (I'm actually very glad to have it as I really miss not having it in Forge of Freedom) as much as it is with the fact that the economic/diplomatic model is missing a significant component. Well, the US were not significant. As you will remember, in 1812, Great Britain was able to nearly defeat the US and burn down the White House while fighting Napoleon at the same time... Great Britain was annoyed, because her navy had any trouble at all with the us. That is like the USA of today being annoyed about guerilla forces at Afghanistan.

Pistachio -> RE: Where are the Americans? (5/9/2010 3:30:42 AM)
Have you ever read a book?

LexLegis -> RE: Where are the Americans? (5/10/2010 1:02:27 PM)
Well, at last it seems, we did not read the same books... But at least, you are not very polite. [&o] You may explain to me, why my reasoning, that a state that had but 5 million inhabtants (Spain and Portugal together had 10 millions, France alone had 28 Millions) and was at the edge of the known world of that time was imporant to the major eurpean powers. You may also explain, why Britain and/or France should have been overly concerned about a war with a country who was a military and economic minor power. [&o][&o]

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