RE: The Pacific (TV Show)

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Nemo121 -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 10:38:24 AM)
Umm, guys, SPOILERS please... Some of us did not know that Basilone died on Iwo Jima... Not all of us have the Pacific as our main focus and know everything about it> I sure as hell don't [:D]. It isn't a huge thing but if we're posting something like that could we put a SPOILER tag at the top of the post please? Some of us don't want the surprise spoiled.

cantona2 -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 10:55:44 AM)
Heres what i wrote on another forum about Ep 8 quote: I think the home stories are inevitable given the current climate and the fact that I think servicemen in the PTO were rotated back more often than in Europe. Contact with the enemy in Europe was for more constant as well, what with a continuous land frontline as opposed to island hopping. Though BoB is immensely better than The Pacific, I do believe that the difference in theatres of war is highlighted, eg necessary rest periods in Pauvu and the large distances between islands. In BoB the only 'rest' period we see is when Market Garden is announced. Episode 8 was predictable but a lot of detail was left out, eg Basilone's Navy Cross (posthumous) and the scale of his actions on Day 1 on Iwo. I read in another forum that the DvD release would have more scenes that have been cut from the TV release, hopefully the combat scenes Being a Witp avid player I still feel let down by the series as a whole. I'm enjoying it purely as its not another teen vampire or CSI crap series bombarding me via the airwaves, but BoB, theatre of operations apart, IMHO was much better made and acted.

John Lansford -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 3:19:31 PM)
Remember, The Pacific is following the events of the war as seen through just three men's eyes; Leckie, Sledge and Basilone. Leckie is currently recuperating from his injuries on Pelieliu and (I think) doesn't return to his unit until Okinawa, which is why he wasn't in the last two episodes at all. Most of the Pelieliu events were seen through Sledge's eyes, although ISTM that they also borrowed some from Burgin's new book on his Marine career (he is Sledge's platoon leader and has been seen in nearly all the episodes). IOW, the focus is much tighter and disjointed, since we're looking at three men who served in the same division but not in the same unit. I doubt Leckie ever met Sledge, and certainly Sledge never saw Basilone, so the series has to jump between the men's experiences. I've not been disappointed at all, even in the episodes where nothing really took place. The last one showing Basilone's internal struggle with his duty and what everyone wanted him to do, as well as his halting courtship, and final scenes on Iwo Jima, was IMO very well done.

bspeer -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 4:00:35 PM)
I am not disappointed in it overall. I could do with fewer sex scenes as I am not sure they add to the overall "message." Keeping in mind this is a made for TV movie and is targeting folks that are not military historians nor pacific aficionados it is doing quite well. Not, IMHO, up to Band of Brothers standards but quite well.

Swayin -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 5:13:32 PM)
Few things can stand up to the standard of BoB - truly a hallmark production in every way. About the only thing that compares to it IMO - in terms of just raw storytelling, production values, acting, and entertainment value, although obviously much different subject matter - was the original Lonesome Dove miniseries with Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones. In my opinion, those are still the two best miniseries ever made for TV.

Ketza -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 5:48:52 PM)
I agree that BOB is far better then The Pacific. Partly because it set the standard but also because the strategic dialogue Hanks gives and the map at the begining of each episode are rather distracting. I do however believe that the series is indeed very good. It seems to capture the brutality of the theatre as I had always imagined it while reading about it over the years. I will never forget the scene where the one marine is plopping rocks in the shattered skull of the Japanese machine gunner that is filled with goo. It spoke volumes about what can be suddenly considered acceptable behavior given an extreme circumstance.

Swayin -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 6:32:31 PM)
quote: Partly because it set the standard but also because the strategic dialogue Hanks gives and the map at the begining of each episode are rather distracting. Personally, I really like that feature.

Capt Cliff -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 7:14:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford Remember, The Pacific is following the events of the war as seen through just three men's eyes; Leckie, Sledge and Basilone. Leckie is currently recuperating from his injuries on Pelieliu and (I think) doesn't return to his unit until Okinawa, which is why he wasn't in the last two episodes at all. Most of the Pelieliu events were seen through Sledge's eyes, although ISTM that they also borrowed some from Burgin's new book on his Marine career (he is Sledge's platoon leader and has been seen in nearly all the episodes). IOW, the focus is much tighter and disjointed, since we're looking at three men who served in the same division but not in the same unit. I doubt Leckie ever met Sledge, and certainly Sledge never saw Basilone, so the series has to jump between the men's experiences. I've not been disappointed at all, even in the episodes where nothing really took place. The last one showing Basilone's internal struggle with his duty and what everyone wanted him to do, as well as his halting courtship, and final scenes on Iwo Jima, was IMO very well done. The last episode totally missed that John Basilone got the Navy Cross for what he did on "day one" of the Iwo invasion. This man get's the medal of honor on "The Canal" and his first day back in combat he wins the Navy Cross. That episode should have ended with his widow being presented the Navy Cross. They presented his last combat action as an after thought and rushed through it. He was the bravest of the brave and for his final accomplishments to be glossed over was very very disappointing. There are a lot of technical flaws but none being show stoppers. They spent two episodes on Peleliu which was ok, iffy, because they introduced Capt Andrew Adison Haldane, or Ack Ack, who gave us a glimpse of what a truly great leader and hero that man was. Definately standing shoulder to shoulder with Maj Richard Winters. America's strong armed men. I mentioned this in the General Discussion forum but felt it needed to be repeated here.

bspeer -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 7:18:49 PM)
One thing REALLY bugs me about the series. I enjoy hearing the Vets speak in the beginning but it begs for a subtitle telling who they were and their units.

Chickenboy -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 8:03:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Swayin quote: Partly because it set the standard but also because the strategic dialogue Hanks gives and the map at the begining of each episode are rather distracting. Personally, I really like that feature. Me too. I snicker whenever they go back to Pu'vu'vu. A. Funny name and B. Land crabs, sand lice and mud never looked so good after coming back from the living hell of Peleliu.

John Lansford -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 8:33:45 PM)
Actually, you see Captain Haldane on the episode where they first get to Pavuvu. He breaks up a wrestling match between Sledge and his friend that gets shipped home shortly afterwards, and Sledge's friend mentions he got a battlefield commission on Guadalcanal. I agree that even some text over the final scenes mentioning Basilone getting the Navy Cross on Iwo would have been nice. The man did his duty to the fullest measure.

witpqs -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 9:00:25 PM)
I felt the final combat scenes with Basilone were presented as a climax, not an afterthought. Maybe they'll mention the Navy Cross later? Dunno.

Swayin -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 9:30:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs I felt the final combat scenes with Basilone were presented as a climax, not an afterthought. Maybe they'll mention the Navy Cross later? Dunno. I agree. that slow pan up from the body until the camera is 100 feet above the fray, showing marines lyng all around him in the black sand and the flamethrower blasting the pillbox, didn't seem like an afterthought to me. was very well done, IMO.

John Lansford -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/5/2010 11:35:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: Swayin quote: Partly because it set the standard but also because the strategic dialogue Hanks gives and the map at the begining of each episode are rather distracting. Personally, I really like that feature. Me too. I snicker whenever they go back to Pu'vu'vu. A. Funny name and B. Land crabs, sand lice and mud never looked so good after coming back from the living hell of Peleliu. Actually, Pavuvu had been dramatically upgraded during the time the 1st Marines were gone. Both Sledge and Burgin in their books mentioned how the entire island had been transformed into a huge rear area supply base, complete with electricity, real buildings, crushed gravel roads, barracks, and the coconuts and land crabs had been mostly removed. Women were there too, as the last episode showed.

cantona2 -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 9:18:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bspeer One thing REALLY bugs me about the series. I enjoy hearing the Vets speak in the beginning but it begs for a subtitle telling who they were and their units. I'm assuming that they will follow from BoB and at the end of the last episode they have the vets sitting silently before the credits roll and then we are told who they are. I reckon the guy with the glasses has to be Sledge.

Grit -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 2:22:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Swayin Few things can stand up to the standard of BoB - truly a hallmark production in every way. About the only thing that compares to it IMO - in terms of just raw storytelling, production values, acting, and entertainment value, although obviously much different subject matter - was the original Lonesome Dove miniseries with Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones. In my opinion, those are still the two best miniseries ever made for TV. Lonesome Dove is also my favorite. One of the most powerful moments on television was when Jake Spoon got hanged. I've watched the entire series 5 or 6 times.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 2:39:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cantona2 quote: ORIGINAL: bspeer One thing REALLY bugs me about the series. I enjoy hearing the Vets speak in the beginning but it begs for a subtitle telling who they were and their units. I'm assuming that they will follow from BoB and at the end of the last episode they have the vets sitting silently before the credits roll and then we are told who they are. I reckon the guy with the glasses has to be Sledge. If you watch Ken Burns' "The War" miniseries/documentary, you'll see Sledge as he appears today (well, four years or so ago.) He became a doctor. His sister is the main voice in "The War" for events in Mobile, Alabama during the war. "The War" takes a very different POV than most WWII documentaries. It examines in more micro-detail the events as they impacted four US communities and the men and women they sent to war: Sacramento, CA, Watertown, CT, Mobile, Alabama, and Luverne, MN. It's available on DVD and well worth watching.

bspeer -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 5:48:31 PM)
Moose, I really enjoyed The Burns series. I had not connected teh dots, thanks!

Swayin -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 6:01:39 PM)
I own "The War" and love it - and also had not connected the dots to the woman who does so much of the "life in Mobile during the war" stuff. Thanks! quote: Lonesome Dove is also my favorite. One of the most powerful moments on television was when Jake Spoon got hanged. I've watched the entire series 5 or 6 times. Agreed. The death of Deets, and eventually, of course, Gus, is also crushing.

cantona2 -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 7:16:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: cantona2 quote: ORIGINAL: bspeer One thing REALLY bugs me about the series. I enjoy hearing the Vets speak in the beginning but it begs for a subtitle telling who they were and their units. I'm assuming that they will follow from BoB and at the end of the last episode they have the vets sitting silently before the credits roll and then we are told who they are. I reckon the guy with the glasses has to be Sledge. If you watch Ken Burns' "The War" miniseries/documentary, you'll see Sledge as he appears today (well, four years or so ago.) He became a doctor. His sister is the main voice in "The War" for events in Mobile, Alabama during the war. "The War" takes a very different POV than most WWII documentaries. It examines in more micro-detail the events as they impacted four US communities and the men and women they sent to war: Sacramento, CA, Watertown, CT, Mobile, Alabama, and Luverne, MN. It's available on DVD and well worth watching. Will keep an eye out for it, thanks for the heads up.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 7:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cantona2 quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: cantona2 quote: ORIGINAL: bspeer One thing REALLY bugs me about the series. I enjoy hearing the Vets speak in the beginning but it begs for a subtitle telling who they were and their units. I'm assuming that they will follow from BoB and at the end of the last episode they have the vets sitting silently before the credits roll and then we are told who they are. I reckon the guy with the glasses has to be Sledge. If you watch Ken Burns' "The War" miniseries/documentary, you'll see Sledge as he appears today (well, four years or so ago.) He became a doctor. His sister is the main voice in "The War" for events in Mobile, Alabama during the war. "The War" takes a very different POV than most WWII documentaries. It examines in more micro-detail the events as they impacted four US communities and the men and women they sent to war: Sacramento, CA, Watertown, CT, Mobile, Alabama, and Luverne, MN. It's available on DVD and well worth watching. Will keep an eye out for it, thanks for the heads up. I see from your avatar box that you're in Gibraltar, so you may or may not know of Burns' work. He is most famous here, probably, for his masterpiece from 1990ish, "The Civil War." It's 12-hours, and has some of the best voice narration I've ever heard. Despite there being no moving pictures from the period he injects energy into the topic with music, photos, maps, and, again, superior narration. Shelby Foote is worth the price of admisison by himself. Burns has been interviewed extensively, and his initial impulse as a documentarian was to make "big" documentaries about what he sees as the three seminal things/events that made the USA what it is today: the Civil War, baseball, and jazz. Through each documentary he weaves in social history, politics, racial developments, women's rights, economics, etc. in a tapestry that makes people who don't like history, well, like history. He has been criticized here by some who say that he turns everyth8ing into a discussion of racial discrimination, and that is a core topic in all of his work, but I'd disagree it's "core." He does believe that racism and slavery were the fundamental flaws in the founding of the nation, but he's hardly the first or only historian to observe that. "The War" does examine race--African-American, Japanese-American, and American Indian--but in what to me were new ways with voices I hadn't heard before. The story told by the now very old Indian who managed to pass all of the war tests required to become a chief of his tribe, while fighting Nazis, was amazing. Of the three, "Baseball" is my persoanl favorite, and "Jazz", while deep and probing, left me colder. Since he finished his trilogy he's made "The War" as well as several smaller projects such as a series about the US National Park system and one about the western frontier. I had "The War" on my Tivo for over a year, in High Rez, eating up about 1/3 of my space, but I just couldn't erase it. I finally did, but I plan to buy the DVDs when finances are more stable. It really is a work any WWII grognard ought to see or own.

Grit -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 8:00:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: cantona2 quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: cantona2 quote: ORIGINAL: bspeer One thing REALLY bugs me about the series. I enjoy hearing the Vets speak in the beginning but it begs for a subtitle telling who they were and their units. I'm assuming that they will follow from BoB and at the end of the last episode they have the vets sitting silently before the credits roll and then we are told who they are. I reckon the guy with the glasses has to be Sledge. If you watch Ken Burns' "The War" miniseries/documentary, you'll see Sledge as he appears today (well, four years or so ago.) He became a doctor. His sister is the main voice in "The War" for events in Mobile, Alabama during the war. "The War" takes a very different POV than most WWII documentaries. It examines in more micro-detail the events as they impacted four US communities and the men and women they sent to war: Sacramento, CA, Watertown, CT, Mobile, Alabama, and Luverne, MN. It's available on DVD and well worth watching. Will keep an eye out for it, thanks for the heads up. I see from your avatar box that you're in Gibraltar, so you may or may not know of Burns' work. He is most famous here, probably, for his masterpiece from 1990ish, "The Civil War." It's 12-hours, and has some of the best voice narration I've ever heard. Despite there being no moving pictures from the period he injects energy into the topic with music, photos, maps, and, again, superior narration. Shelby Foote is worth the price of admisison by himself. Burns has been interviewed extensively, and his initial impulse as a documentarian was to make "big" documentaries about what he sees as the three seminal things/events that made the USA what it is today: the Civil War, baseball, and jazz. Through each documentary he weaves in social history, politics, racial developments, women's rights, economics, etc. in a tapestry that makes people who don't like history, well, like history. He has been criticized here by some who say that he turns everyth8ing into a discussion of racial discrimination, and that is a core topic in all of his work, but I'd disagree it's "core." He does believe that racism and slavery were the fundamental flaws in the founding of the nation, but he's hardly the first or only historian to observe that. "The War" does examine race--African-American, Japanese-American, and American Indian--but in what to me were new ways with voices I hadn't heard before. The story told by the now very old Indian who managed to pass all of the war tests required to become a chief of his tribe, while fighting Nazis, was amazing. Of the three, "Baseball" is my persoanl favorite, and "Jazz", while deep and probing, left me colder. Since he finished his trilogy he's made "The War" as well as several smaller projects such as a series about the US National Park system and one about the western frontier. I had "The War" on my Tivo for over a year, in High Rez, eating up about 1/3 of my space, but I just couldn't erase it. I finally did, but I plan to buy the DVDs when finances are more stable. It really is a work any WWII grognard ought to see or own. "The War" is on Netflix on Demand right now. I missed it when it was on television, watching it now. I've got "The Civil War" on DVD, he changed the way documentaries are done.

AcePylut -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 9:36:09 PM)
I wrote this, about the Pacific, on another (non-WW2 forum... gaaa I"m such a traitor).... -------------- Interesting... putting it halfway in between the best (BoB) and "the movie that no respectable world war 2 grognard will mention, for it shall forever more be referred to as 'that' movie" [image]http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/Smileys/NewSmilies/smiley.gif[/image] (edit: yes I actually wrote this on the other forum) I'm sold on Pacific. IMHO it's every bit as good as BOB, there is a ton more action, and the action lasts much longer, is far more intense, and is a lot more chaotic. The thing that sold me? The invasion of Peleliu. No movie or series has ever made me feel they way I did when they showed Sledge climing into his Amtrak in the LST, then opening the doors, the smoke and fire of the beach coming into view, and the slow slow "omfg" approach to the beach. And then that bunker scene in the third Peleliu episode... man. The way it was slowly built up from "hey I think I hear Japs in that bunker" to the Japs end via "flamethrowers" was just an escalation of violence and "WTF is it gonna take to kill these bastards" thoughts. I have always believed that the best soldier of any nation in World War 2 was the Japanese soldier. I'm happy that this series is showing the absolute fanatacism, tenacity, and "you're going to have to come here and kill me, cuz I ain't surrendering" of the Japanese (unlike "letters from Iwo Jima" where the pov was from the one "screw dying for the emperor, I'm all westernized" - disgusting plot line imho). Just think for a moment, from the Japanese pov, about Peleliu. They were cut off. Surrounded. NO chance of supplies. No hope of survival. The heat was 115degrees. Water was scarce. They couldn't shower or bathe (which is enough 'horror' for a Japanese). Once medical supplies ran out - there wounded would scream, rot, and die, inside those caves... right next to "you" if "you" were a Japanese soldier. I made a comment to my friends as we watched the end of Peleliu... kinda chatting about it... I said "I wish they were on our side". They were like "huh", then after retrospect, understood what I was saying and agreed.

Swayin -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/6/2010 11:09:03 PM)
quote: IMHO it's every bit as good as BOB, there is a ton more action, and the action lasts much longer, is far more intense, and is a lot more chaotic. I agree with everything you said about the Pelieliu episode(s). They were harrowing in the extreme. But I will have to differ about the amount of action, intensity of the action, etc. as compared to BoB ... I would say though they are geographically a world apart, Bastogne or Carentan (or my personal favorite the assault on the 88s behind Utah Beach and repulse of the SS counterattack) are as nail-bitingly vivid as Peleliu or the Canal. JM2C! :)

witpqs -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/7/2010 1:09:10 AM)
Eugene Sledge: [image]local://upfiles/14248/839EDAE0AFE140FC93741AE7A4F98CFA.jpg[/image]

Swayin -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/7/2010 4:15:10 AM)
Great featurette on Robert Leckie

m10bob -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/7/2010 8:23:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Swayin Few things can stand up to the standard of BoB - truly a hallmark production in every way. About the only thing that compares to it IMO - in terms of just raw storytelling, production values, acting, and entertainment value, although obviously much different subject matter - was the original Lonesome Dove miniseries with Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones. In my opinion, those are still the two best miniseries ever made for TV. Ever seen Winds Of War or War And Remembrance? Ever seen Once An Eagle? Nothing from BoB, but there have been some other nice mini-series, which seem to collect dust by the networks who would prefer to air such tripe as "Dancing with the bimbo of the week", etc..

wwengr -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/8/2010 5:50:24 PM)
John Basilone's story was one that I knew before this. In the 1980's, I was a member of the United States Army's 3rd US Infantry, stationed at Fort Myer, VA. many of us studied the history of people in gravestites in Arlington National Cemetery (ANC). Gunnery Sergeant John Basilone is the only Medal of Honor winner that died in battle after being awarded the Medal. He is buried in section 12 in ANC which is near the center of the cemetery. The story is fairly honest in its portrayal, but they did take a small liberty with his death scene. On Iwo, he was actually killed instantly by a mortar shell. I don't begrudge the film-makers this though. They handled the scene with sensitivity and properly conveyed the tragic, heroic and incredibly selfless nature of his act. As another poster pointed out, John Basilone was awarded the navy Cross for his actions on that day. A couple of notes for those that may be interested: The Medal of Honor is not the Congressional Medal of Honor. It is simply, the Medal of Honor. The award citation has the words "...in the name of Congress..." in the narrative. Medals are not won. There is no competition or contest. They are awarded for merit or heroism.

AcePylut -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/10/2010 3:32:30 PM)
In Hugh Ambrose's companion book "The Pacific", he states that Basilone died from being shot three times, and cites his source as Graves Registration. I'll take that over Wiki. I watched Winds of War and War and Rememberance. Loved Winds of War, thought it was extremely well done... but War and Remembrance sucked horribly. I thought it was extrememly disgusting how they changed the focus of the story from the Henry's to the Jastrows, and seemed more interesting in making sure that every viewer sees every aspect of Jewish Culture and Life. Winds of War: Awesome. War and Remembrance: Waste of time and space.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: The Pacific (TV Show) (5/10/2010 4:33:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AcePylut In Hugh Ambrose's companion book "The Pacific", he states that Basilone died from being shot three times, and cites his source as Graves Registration. I'll take that over Wiki. I watched Winds of War and War and Rememberance. Loved Winds of War, thought it was extremely well done... but War and Remembrance sucked horribly. I thought it was extrememly disgusting how they changed the focus of the story from the Henry's to the Jastrows, and seemed more interesting in making sure that every viewer sees every aspect of Jewish Culture and Life. Winds of War: Awesome. War and Remembrance: Waste of time and space. Did you read either book? I've read both, and seen both. They're both well balanced to the books.

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