RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (Full Version)

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jackx -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (3/24/2010 7:13:00 PM)

Just want to add a bit of 18th-century cynism to the experience and discipline debate - where fairly "green" troops were seen as a blessing of sorts, because with the right leadership they could be made to perform in a manner that experienced veterans often could not...  of course, this requires a sufficient level of basic training and discipline...
(Which, however, in those times, was easier to establish, because soldiers had a lot more "downtime" that could be, and was used, for drill...)

Edit: Made a mistake, and thankfully the good guy was quick to call me out about it. My apologies, and hopefully no lasting damage was done.



GoodGuy -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (3/24/2010 7:47:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jackx

So far, I've been decently entertained...


May I ask where you have seen these "entertaining" episodes? :D





ilovestrategy -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (3/25/2010 5:44:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oldspec4

There are no EX Marines..only former Marines [:)].  Semper Fi..



I stand corrected sir! [&o]



KG Erwin -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (3/26/2010 3:34:02 AM)

I do understand most wargamers' aversion to the Pacific ground campaigns, as they devolved into bloody slug matches between an offensive force awash in heavy weapons and a defense which had to literally blasted and burnt out of their emplacements. There's no elaborate and majestic sweeping movements about it. It was brutal and straight ahead. Yet, some of these young men, on both sides, endured this hellishness and lived on to serve normal lives. THAT, ultimately, is what "The Pacific " is about.

Take, for example, Eugene Sledge. He survived the hell of Peleliu and Okinawa, earned his PHD and ultimately became a Professor of Biology at the University of Montevallo in Alabama. He served there until he retired in 1990, and in the meantime wrote his monumental book, "With the Old Breed". He died of cancer in 2001.




KG Erwin -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (3/31/2010 11:19:44 PM)

HBO will be broadcasting episodes 1-3 tonight (3/31) back to back at 8 pm DST (East Coast USA).



ilovestrategy -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/1/2010 5:37:42 AM)

I liked episode 3! 



KG Erwin -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/12/2010 10:39:05 PM)

The second half of Episode 5 picks up the action with Eugene Sledge's baptism of fire at Peleliu. This sequence rivals SPR for the carnage, and Peleliu will dominate the next two episodes. We finally get to see an American tank, a Sherman, in action, as it blasts a Japanese light tank to smithereens during the abortive Japanese counterattack.

Granted, as a fan of the Pacific, I haven't missed an episode so far, and it has been uniformly outstanding. If any of you were disappointed in the first four episodes, number 5 makes up for it.

BTW, just wait til you get a load of Gunny Sgt Elmo Haney, a true "Old Breed". He was real, and is described in Sledge's book. During the training scenes, he strips down while the rain is pouring, and proceeds to scrub his privates with a shoebrush! Yikes, that's hardcore! According to Sledge, this actually happened. [:D]



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/12/2010 10:54:49 PM)

DAMMIT KG - time to stop reading this thread. You're getting carried away and giving stufff away m8. [:-] I thought it was about reviews (what people thought) not spoilers!



KG Erwin -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/12/2010 11:00:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

DAMMIT KG - time to stop reading this thread. You're getting carried away and giving stufff away m8. [:-] I thought it was about reviews (what people thought) not spoilers!


Oops! I'm sorry, Judge Dredd, as I forget that it hasn't been aired overseas yet. Ok, no more spoilers, then. [:o]

Suffice it for me to say that I've thoroughly enjoyed each episode of this story, but it IS sometimes difficult to watch. Do not expect each episode to be full of combat, though, as we all know it is a study of three Marines and their experiences. As in BoB, there are a lot of different characters, so it may take awhile to recognize who's who. Fair warning.



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/12/2010 11:20:26 PM)

np - would like to hear stuff about it to whet my appetite, but I could do without the detail [;)]



MajFrankBurns -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/13/2010 2:10:38 AM)

I've found the last three episodes pretty boring and a waste of time recording them. I want to see battle action not some guy doinking a woman old enough to be his mom. Nor some crazed fool who pee's in his pants and has to take a break from the action to some head shrink camp. Band of Brothers is 100x better than this stuff and had better actors.



KG Erwin -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/13/2010 3:36:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I've found the last three episodes pretty boring and a waste of time recording them. I want to see battle action not some guy doinking a woman old enough to be his mom. Nor some crazed fool who pee's in his pants and has to take a break from the action to some head shrink camp. Band of Brothers is 100x better than this stuff and had better actors.


From someone who chooses Ferret-Face Frank as a forum name, I'm not surprised by his response. Not enough blood & guts and too much sex -- ok, I'll forsake any comments about him and just say, judge it for yourself.



ilovestrategy -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/13/2010 5:48:30 PM)

I liked the series. Going to buy the DVD set when it comes out. 



Crimguy -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 2:44:06 AM)

I give it a B+ so far. If they didn't do the invasion of Peleliu so well I'd have given it a B-. It did lose a few points for me on the rehab episode (last week).



Doggie -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 4:01:22 AM)

You have to keep in mind this series is set for international distribution, including Japan. Don't expect to see the Japanese to be depicted as anywhere near the stinking savages they actually were. Marines digging gold out a corpse's teeth? That's okay. Everybody know Americans are imperialist storm troopers. But as the people who actually fought the war in the pacific have told me, you had to be there to even begin to understand how savage qnd merciless this conflict was.

I feel robbed by the short episodes. It's over a full ten minutes before the hour is up. These episodes are obviously ment to fit into forty or forty five minute time slots, or more with time compression. Spielburg and company intend this to be a cash cow.

As I grew uo with marines, there are some details I have a problem with. Marines in a rear echelon rest area running around with shaggy hair, unbuttoned shirts, and fatigue uniforms with the sleeves cut off. No way, especially, most absolutely especially in secure rear area overrun with pougey bait marines and slop chute commandos. You got to show me a bunch of pencil pushing Gunnies and desk bound majors that would ever let that happen. During the Vietnam war, my friends who were Marines were volunteering for additional tours of duty just to get out of Camp Lejuene.



Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 5:24:31 AM)

And thank you Mr. Hanks for your take on America's contribution to winning WW2 in the Pacific. [sm=nono.gif]



JudgeDredd -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 6:51:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

You have to keep in mind this series is set for international distribution, including Japan. Don't expect to see the Japanese to be depicted as anywhere near the stinking savages they actually were. Marines digging gold out a corpse's teeth? That's okay. Everybody know Americans are imperialist storm troopers. But as the people who actually fought the war in the pacific have told me, you had to be there to even begin to understand how savage qnd merciless this conflict was.

I feel robbed by the short episodes. It's over a full ten minutes before the hour is up. These episodes are obviously ment to fit into forty or forty five minute time slots, or more with time compression. Spielburg and company intend this to be a cash cow.

As I grew uo with marines, there are some details I have a problem with. Marines in a rear echelon rest area running around with shaggy hair, unbuttoned shirts, and fatigue uniforms with the sleeves cut off. No way, especially, most absolutely especially in secure rear area overrun with pougey bait marines and slop chute commandos. You got to show me a bunch of pencil pushing Gunnies and desk bound majors that would ever let that happen. During the Vietnam war, my friends who were Marines were volunteering for additional tours of duty just to get out of Camp Lejuene.

God forbid Steven Spielberg would want to make some money in our capitalist hell we've created from one of his productions, eh? [8|] Always with the controversial rubbish! So here we are talking about an apparent half decent representation of what the Marines faced in WWII through the Pacific and you jump in with your usual nonsense.

To be honest, I think I'll take Toms and Stevens word over yours that this (and other things) did happen. I'm sure (being as they had first hand accounts from people who were actually there) they have more chance of getting it correct than you. I'm guessing you weren't present in WWII and therefore it makes sense that Tom and Steven got access to more facts about it than you. They are making a 10 part miniseries focussing on 3 marines in a division. I'm sure they have "manufactured" some things. But if you and others take it as fact - well I can't stop you.

The Marines in WWII are not the same as Marines of now. I think it's prefectly feasible that after what the marines had been through they were indeed allowed to "let loose" - at least for a while before they had to be whipped into a unit again.

As for your stupid comment about portraying the US as imperialist storm troopers - horse crap. War is hell and sh1t goes on - your country (as well as mine an any other country involved in wars) have been responsible for their own little travesties. You and I might not like it - it might leave a bad taste in our mouths but to deny it just doesn't work.

And before anyone shouts about getting the post locked - I'm not being political - I'm just pointing out that war desensitises you and hardens you. Bad things happen - even by the "good" sides.



anarchyintheuk -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 4:00:27 PM)

It's been a long time since I read Sledge's book but iirc he wrote about the removal of gold teeth so it wasn't like Speilberg or Hanks just made up the character. Whether they chose the book, in part, because it contained those actions is another question.



Doggie -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 5:20:40 PM)

quote:

prefectly feasible that after what the marines had been through they were indeed allowed to "let loose" - at least for a while before they had to be whipped into a unit again.


Yeah. That's why they stuck them on a rat infested desert island and subjected them to endless work details instead of sending them back to Australia.

I got my facts while they were still fresh in the minds of the members of my family and friends who served in the pacific. Not one of them lost any sleep over Hiroshima.

Tom Hanks has his head up his ass and his influence on the series reflects his warped world view.

quote:

"Back in World War II, we viewed the Japanese as 'yellow, slant-eyed dogs' that believed in different gods," he told the magazine. "They were out to kill us because our way of living was different. We, in turn, wanted to annihilate them because they were different. Does that sound familiar, by any chance, to what's going on today?"



"We" didn't care about their religion or their way of life. We wanted to kill them because they were merciless, sadistic bastards. He clearly has no idea about why Americans fought the war in the Pacific.



cantona2 -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 7:03:34 PM)

BoB I think was made with the right intentions, to honour the men that fought those campaigns. This one, I think also has that at its core, however the hyperbole surrounding the launch of The Pacific has made it a disappointment to many grognards and students of the Second World War. That it is made by two of America's 'we set morals' brigade doesn't help its cause.

History has to be viewed objectively and one cannot use one's own 21st century prejudices, opinions or biases to portray an event from the past as emotionally charged as The Pacific Campaign. Fact was that americans at the time regarded the japanese as yellow, slant eyed monkeys as portrayed in propaganda and in slogans at the time. It was also a socially accepted view of Japanese peoples so physically and psychologically different to Americans. the attack on PH heightend this and fuelled these attitudes and behaviour, and lets face it you want your soldiers to be as antagonistic and aggressive towards your enemy as possible. The PC brigade of today would have a coronoary attack in the 1940's. IMO I think that we have swung too far to the other side nowadays but as all GCSE students are initially taught, historians need to empathise with the period of history they are studying and take those opinions as they are and not transpose a 21st century point of view on them.

As to the series, this last episode was, for me, the best one so far. I understand the antagonism to the non battle episodes but two factors have to be considered. soldiers were not in action all the time and the portrayl of battle stress, at a time when the condition was deemed not to exist was interesting. Likewise the vast geographical area invloved meant that at times units in the Pacific spent longer times out of direct contact with the enemy. In Europe, as the fighting all took place on the same landmass, the front was a more consistent line and contact with enemy was more regular. Take the Ost Front for example, a line running from Leningrad to Rostov in mid 1942 with constant contact. the Pacific theatre was hardly ever like this. The ocean or the jungle made this largely impossible, therefore the actions in the pacific are less regular but at times more intensive than in europe.



mjk428 -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 8:44:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I've found the last three episodes pretty boring and a waste of time recording them. I want to see battle action not some guy doinking a woman old enough to be his mom. Nor some crazed fool who pee's in his pants and has to take a break from the action to some head shrink camp. Band of Brothers is 100x better than this stuff and had better actors.


From someone who chooses Ferret-Face Frank as a forum name, I'm not surprised by his response. Not enough blood & guts and too much sex -- ok, I'll forsake any comments about him and just say, judge it for yourself.


I've seen the first three eps and I agree with ferret face. It sucks.



*Lava* -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 9:14:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

It's been a long time since I read Sledge's book but iirc he wrote about the removal of gold teeth so it wasn't like Speilberg or Hanks just made up the character.


Yea, I think that is a good characterization of the war.

BTW, you think they will ever happen to mention the fact that the Japanese would rather commit suicide than be captured?

Probably not...

Ray (alias Lava)



MajFrankBurns -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 9:36:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I've found the last three episodes pretty boring and a waste of time recording them. I want to see battle action not some guy doinking a woman old enough to be his mom. Nor some crazed fool who pee's in his pants and has to take a break from the action to some head shrink camp. Band of Brothers is 100x better than this stuff and had better actors.


From someone who chooses Ferret-Face Frank as a forum name, I'm not surprised by his response. Not enough blood & guts and too much sex -- ok, I'll forsake any comments about him and just say, judge it for yourself.


I've seen the first three eps and I agree with ferret face. It sucks.


Thank you mjk428 I'm glad someone else appreciates a good war movie with action and not some silly drama queens peeing in their pants and spending an entire episode on IT. Why if that were Patton there he probably would have shot his penis off.



andym -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 9:37:02 PM)

Well,i turned the first episode on and just couldnt get into it at all.I found it somewhat lackluster and eventually turned it off.



Doggie -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 9:43:24 PM)

quote:

Fact was that americans at the time regarded the japanese as yellow, slant eyed monkeys as portrayed in propaganda and in slogans at the time. It was also a socially accepted view of Japanese peoples so physically and psychologically different to Americans


Nonsense. Before the war the Japanese were regarded as polilte little oriental people who liked to eat raw fish and ran arouknd in public in their bath robes. Americans had a hard time believing the stories of outrageous barbarism filtering out of China. It was only after Americans eperienced Japanese sadism first hand that propagadists began to portray them as the monsters they were. The irony is that due to 1940's era standards of public decency, propagandists understated Japanese barbarism. The reality was far worse than any fantasy a propagandist would be allowed to show on film. Even today, HBO would not dare show graphilc images of captured soldiers, nurses and civilians after the Japanese got done with them.

There was very good reason why Marines and Australian soldiers finished off any wounded japanese soldiers they found, and racism had nothing to do with it. South Pacific islanders, the Phillipinos, and the Chinese despised the Japanese even more than the Anglo American Allies. I suppose they were also "racists'.[8|]



cantona2 -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 10:06:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

quote:

Fact was that americans at the time regarded the japanese as yellow, slant eyed monkeys as portrayed in propaganda and in slogans at the time. It was also a socially accepted view of Japanese peoples so physically and psychologically different to Americans


Nonsense. Before the war the Japanese were regarded as polilte little oriental people who liked to eat raw fish and ran arouknd in public in their bath robes. Americans had a hard time believing the stories of outrageous barbarism filtering out of China. It was only after Americans eperienced Japanese sadism first hand that propagadists began to portray them as the monsters they were. The irony is that due to 1940's era standards of public decency, propagandists understated Japanese barbarism. The reality was far worse than any fantasy a propagandist would be allowed to show on film. Even today, HBO would not dare show graphilc images of captured soldiers, nurses and civilians after the Japanese got done with them.

There was very good reason why Marines and Australian soldiers finished off any wounded japanese soldiers they found, and racism had nothing to do with it. South Pacific islanders, the Phillipinos, and the Chinese despised the Japanese even more than the Anglo American Allies. I suppose they were also "racists'.[8|]


You've totally misunderstood what I wrote. I wasn't implying that American society was inherrently racist at the time mate. Once the war broke out attitudes towards Japanese people hardened, containment camps for example! US/Aus soldiers finished those soldiers off because they were prone to be blown to bits by a grenade as they offered a dying foe water. As to the other nationalities you mention, they hated the Japs becasue the Japs beahved like total and utter bastards towards them!

The stories that came out of China were not initially believed just like the first trickle of reports about the Holocaust in Europe began to emerge for the simple reason that you state, ie it didn't enter the thinking of Western Democracies that institutional hatred on such scale would be tolerated. My arguement was that some of the messages coming across in The Pacific, ie the Speilberg quote another poster used further up, seem to address current issues rather than the issues of the times the show portrays. No matter how much we read, learn and try to understand I guess living through those times would be the only was of truly gauging public opinion. One thing for sure, I would also bayonet an enemy that would have tried to blow up any of my comrades or I when we've tried to help them.



Rambler1963 -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 10:09:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I've found the last three episodes pretty boring and a waste of time recording them. I want to see battle action not some guy doinking a woman old enough to be his mom. Nor some crazed fool who pee's in his pants and has to take a break from the action to some head shrink camp. Band of Brothers is 100x better than this stuff and had better actors.


From someone who chooses Ferret-Face Frank as a forum name, I'm not surprised by his response. Not enough blood & guts and too much sex -- ok, I'll forsake any comments about him and just say, judge it for yourself.


I've seen the first three eps and I agree with ferret face. It sucks.


I think it's been entertaining. Although based on historical accounts, I never expected it to be 100% historically factual. Those are called documentaries. This is a drama set during the Pacific War. I also didn't expect, nor wanted it to be, a ten hour snuff film. Who in their right minds would want that? I believe that we will be seeing more battle scenes in the next few episodes. More then anything I like the fact that the story of the Pacific is finally being told. After BOB and SPR the Pacific and the ones who served there deserve some widespread recognition.



mjk428 -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 10:50:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amps1963


quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I've found the last three episodes pretty boring and a waste of time recording them. I want to see battle action not some guy doinking a woman old enough to be his mom. Nor some crazed fool who pee's in his pants and has to take a break from the action to some head shrink camp. Band of Brothers is 100x better than this stuff and had better actors.


From someone who chooses Ferret-Face Frank as a forum name, I'm not surprised by his response. Not enough blood & guts and too much sex -- ok, I'll forsake any comments about him and just say, judge it for yourself.


I've seen the first three eps and I agree with ferret face. It sucks.


I think it's been entertaining. Although based on historical accounts, I never expected it to be 100% historically factual. Those are called documentaries. This is a drama set during the Pacific War. I also didn't expect, nor wanted it to be, a ten hour snuff film. Who in their right minds would want that? I believe that we will be seeing more battle scenes in the next few episodes. More then anything I like the fact that the story of the Pacific is finally being told. After BOB and SPR the Pacific and the ones who served there deserve some widespread recognition.


Were BoB and SPR documentaries? Were they snuff films?

I was really happy that they were giving the Pacific theater recognition. The Pacific just isn't very good and compared to the likes of BoB & SPR it's downright abysmal. Weak characters, mediocre acting, and worst of all, a modern political slant on history. The only reason it's the least bit watchable is the setting. What a shame they couldn't do the setting justice.



Doggie -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 10:57:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2



You've totally misunderstood what I wrote. I wasn't implying that American society was inherrently racist at the time mate.



I stand corrected, then. i'm so used to hearing about how Americans were no better than the enemies they fought against i resort to the Pavlovian response.

BTW, Italians, Germans, and other enemy aliens were also interned during world war II. Only the Japanese living near vital defense industries on the west coast were shipped off to internment camps. People of Japanese decent who lived inland went about their lives unmolested for the duration.

As for attitudes, the orignal version of Victory at Sea has cine camera film taken by an RAAF beaufighter strafing japanese troops in lifeboats in the slot. Nobody considered this a "warcrime" at the time because any Japanese troops that made it to shore on Guadalcanal were a potential threat to the abandoned marines on that island.

The pacific allies were pragmatists; not racists.



Rambler1963 -> RE: OT "The Pacific": Your Reviews (4/14/2010 11:40:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: amps1963


quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I've found the last three episodes pretty boring and a waste of time recording them. I want to see battle action not some guy doinking a woman old enough to be his mom. Nor some crazed fool who pee's in his pants and has to take a break from the action to some head shrink camp. Band of Brothers is 100x better than this stuff and had better actors.


From someone who chooses Ferret-Face Frank as a forum name, I'm not surprised by his response. Not enough blood & guts and too much sex -- ok, I'll forsake any comments about him and just say, judge it for yourself.


I've seen the first three eps and I agree with ferret face. It sucks.


I think it's been entertaining. Although based on historical accounts, I never expected it to be 100% historically factual. Those are called documentaries. This is a drama set during the Pacific War. I also didn't expect, nor wanted it to be, a ten hour snuff film. Who in their right minds would want that? I believe that we will be seeing more battle scenes in the next few episodes. More then anything I like the fact that the story of the Pacific is finally being told. After BOB and SPR the Pacific and the ones who served there deserve some widespread recognition.


Were BoB and SPR documentaries? Were they snuff films?

I was really happy that they were giving the Pacific theater recognition. The Pacific just isn't very good and compared to the likes of BoB & SPR it's downright abysmal. Weak characters, mediocre acting, and worst of all, a modern political slant on history. The only reason it's the least bit watchable is the setting. What a shame they couldn't do the setting justice.


I'm not sure where I eluded to SPR and BOB as snuff films. I don't think either were. Out of curiosity, how would you have done the Pacific differently if you had the reins?



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