Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (Full Version)

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Altaris -> Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 3:14:37 AM)

So my PBEM opponent and I are thinking of restarting a campaign and in the process got to discussing some mod ideas to get rid of the horrendous chore of pilot management this game offers. I personally find it to be a level of grognard micro-management that comes close to ruining an otherwise great game. Poking around in the editor and doing some tests, I thinnk I've hit upon a way to get rid of this, with a few minor house rules in place to keep it under check. In addition, I think it opens some doors to making things like TRACOM actually beneficial.

In the editor, you can go to the Scenario tab and click on the Pilots button towards the bottom of the screen. Here you can set the XP and replacement rates for all the game's pools for each year from 1941-1948. I created a little test scenario where I set the XP values at random amounts between 10-99, then loaded up a HtH game and started pulling in pilots from the Replacement Pool to fill out squadrons and observe what their XP values were.

What I found was promising. Basically, whatever the XP value that is set for the pool determines the XP value of any pilot coming in from Get Pilot -> Replacement, with about a +/- 5 variance (so if XP was set to 55 for the pool, the pilots would between 50-60 XP). Their skill settings depend on the type of plane of the squadron getting the replacement. Seems each plane type has a set of "primary" skills, these skills come in at the same value as the XP rate, again with about a +/- 5 variance, while all other skills come in at what appears to be a random value between 30-60% of the XP setting (so, if the pool has an XP rating of 50 and is pulled into a fighter squadron, whose primary skills are Air and Defn, they would have XP, Air, and Defn between 45-55, and all other skills between 15-30). The base primary skills for plane types are listed below.

F - Air, Straf, Defn
FB - Air, Straf, Defn
NF - ? Haven't tested yet
DB - NavB, NavS, GrndB, Defn
HB - GrndB, Defn
MB - GrndB, Defn
LB - GrndB, Defn
AB - ? Haven't tested yet
RC - Recn, Defn
TR - Tran, Defn
PA - NavS, Defn
FP - NavS, Defn
FF - ? Haven't tested yet
TB - NavB, NavT, NavS, GrndB, LowN, Defn

In addition, it seems primary skills also include any skills listed on the squadron info display as Major Skills. An example would be Betties and Nells, which have Major Skills of Torpedo Bombing and Low Naval Attack, when replacements are pulled into these plane types, their skills in NavT and LowN are also granted at the same level as the XP cap, despite the fact that they are MB plane types.

So, my initial thoughts on this mod were to set all the values at 55 or 60, and treat the Replacement Pool as basically the Reserve Pool, and get rid of the need for on-map training altogether. The only skill I could see needing to train up would be ASW, since no planes appear to have this as a primary or major skill. My reasoning here is that now the player is just going to plop as many replacement pilots as they can into restricted training squadrons and simply train them up to 60ish XP anyway, but spend a huge amount of time and hassle doing it. This method would abstract the pilot training process and take away the cumbersome process currently in place.

Since these would all be out-of-the-box ready pilots, the initial pools and replacement rates would need to be reduced. I'd like feedback on what others think the reduction should be, I was thinking of reducing both the initial pools and the rates by 30% across the board. Additional "untrained" pilots would be simulated by the Trainee Pool that pilots are automatically drawn from if the other pools are empty (from my testing, it appears that pilots out of the Trainee Pool typically come in around 40-60% of the XP rate of the Replacement Pool).

TRACOM would actually serve a good valid purpose here too, since putting vets into it would net you good pilots at a faster rate, whereas currently it just gives you more crap pilots you don't need.

There may need to be a few house rules to make this work, in particular, no gaming the system to get better skill pilots by doing things like pulling all your bomber pilots initially into TB squadrons then cycling them out to the General Reserve and into other bomber squadrons (since they get all the primary skills of other bombers plus the good ones of NavT and LowN).

We've also talked about some methods to make pilot reinforcement more reasonable. Request Veteran would be a fairly decent solution if it wasn't for the fact that it's horrible to try and keep up with where the pilots requested this way are (since you can't see them if the delay is >7 days) and even once they do show up, you have to go and set them to active from the pools. Instead, I was thinking of a house rule that pilots can be drawn using Get Pilot, but no individual base can draw more pilots than twice the AF size (we're playing 2-day turns). This would simulate a finite amount of pilots on-hand to quickly draw into depleted squadrons without having to micro-manage the pilot screens.

Anyway, hoping to hear some feedback here on the boards regarding this matter. I think it's a great way to get rid of the micro-management hell of pilot training, but want to make sure we get this right before we start really thinking about a restart (only get one chance to get it right!)




Chickenboy -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 3:21:53 AM)

Hi Altaris,

I guess I (and many other forumites) don't see this as micromanagement hell. To each their own, I guess. You're certainly entitled to any HRs or work arounds that seem satisfactory to you and your partner during PBEM. Good on you for tailoring your experience to suit your preference-you can make whatever changes you see fit in the editor.

Cheers.




Altaris -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 3:34:15 AM)

Wasn't trying to push a mod on anyone, just wanted to get some feedback on whether the numbers above seem reasonable. I don't have any late-game experience, so I'm a little leary of making a change that will hugely impact say, 1943 or 1944. I kinda feel the same sentiment as you on the other side of the coin... I can't imagine how anyone would not want to claw their eyes out cycling through 50 or so training squadrons and picking through pools every 10 turns or so, but if it floats your boat, more power to you!




Halsey -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 8:20:12 AM)

Now what I'd really like to see is the ability to train ships up in individual combat skills instead.
Aircraft get more than enough attention as it is.[;)]

All this would require rewriting code anyway.
Maybe it'll be in WITP III.[:D]





Caractacus -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 8:41:29 AM)

Hi Altaris,

First, to be honest, I loathe the idea of individually training each pilot on the map in a game like WitP:AE so much that I could barely make it through your erudite and well put together post with any degree of comprehension. In my current PBEM it's April 1941 and I've done absolutely nothing with regard to the training of individual pilots so far. I'm aware it's probably long term gaming disaster, but I'd rather spend a few hours gouging my eyes out with teaspoons...

So I can offer very little in the way of specifics because I simply haven't had enough experience, but FWIW your points/methods seemed sensible to me.

However, feel free to throw me in front of what I suspect will be a bunch of posters who 'welcomed this new feature' because they already knew the game inside-out before all this training twaddle came along. I'm glad it's understandable and enjoyable for some of them. For what I guess may be the silent majority of those not versed in years of WitP nuances, it's virtually incomprehensible and seems unnecessary.

So I'm here to offer encouragement, and will periodically return to cheer you on [:)] Of course I will probably keep asking you to make it simple though [:'(]

(If only the current pilot training was made optional in the next patch... sigh...)

Good luck!




bklooste -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 10:52:00 AM)

Such a scheme would heavily favour the Japanese as he would keep pulling already trained pilots from the pool which would allow him to go ferrel how would you get the histrocial effect fo too many low level pilots which were untrained because the IJAAF shipped them out quickly ?




witp1951 -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 11:25:01 AM)

I don't think of the new pilot training as "horrid". It seems to me much better than the alternatives used in WitP. It gives the Japanese player the opportunity to divert resources to pilot training and play "what if" they had done this in WWII. Granted it can be a bit tedious to click twice to send each pilot to General Reserve and retrieve him later. However, you do have the opportunity to see the impact of your training program in detail and this system is in keeping with the high micromanagement character of this game. Players don't have to use the pilot training system (I believe the AI does not) and can establish a house rule to ignore it. Anyway, good luck with your mod and sorry to highjack your thread, I just couldn't let your thread title go without comment.




Nemo121 -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 12:48:37 PM)

It seems to me that a much simpler solution ( which I intend to enact ) is to simply slash pilot training numbers and raise experience. For both sides it is actually "better" to get 1/3rd of the pilots with 70 Exp instead of 40 Exp. If you need more pilots then you start getting poorly trained ones as per real life.

It would also make TRACOM useful as it is pretty pointless to accelerate lots of 40 Exp pilots a little but there is utility in increasing the rate of gradution of 70 Exp pilots. In addition by producing fewer but more immediately useful pilots the drain on Japanese HI at the beginning of every month would be reduced and more efficient.




SuluSea -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 1:47:54 PM)

Micromanagement of pilots is a task but if you break up the theaters into zones and work on the pilot rosters in different zones on different days it makes things much easier and not a burden at all. For my money the pilot training is fantastic as currently constructed.




Nux Mortis -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 1:52:36 PM)

Unfortunately I am not able to like pilot management, as I can´t stand the (feeled) million clicks to work with it.




Altaris -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 2:07:33 PM)

Again, for anyone who enjoys the pilot management feature, this isn't meant as a knock against you. There's just a lot of us that don't care for it, but the problem is, right now it's essential if you want your pilots to actually be able to do anything at all. I figure on a good week I spend at least 3-4 hours just managing pilots in on-map training... that's too much time, time I'd much rather have for playing the game itself. So primarily I'm looking ot make something that removes the essential need of the on-map training for those of us that don't find it fun or interesting.




Canoerebel -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 2:44:11 PM)

Pant, pant...drool, drool...

The thought of no pilot training is spring water to a man wandering through a harsh and inhospitable desert.  I admit I can't follow your thoughts entirely, Altaris, but I applaud you for delving into the matter.  Go, boy, go!

Somebody, please create an AE that doesn't involved pilot training!  Get rid of the abomination that turns a strategic masterpiece into a horrid micromanagement hades.  Anybody that creates such a beasty will be a hero, a saviour, a White Fang bringing the medicine to the lonely outpost stricken by disease.

[:D]

P.S.  Nothing against you crazy and misguided hordes that somehow enjoy pilot training in a strategic game.




ckammp -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 2:50:25 PM)

I enjoy the current pilot training method, but I also have felt frustration at the lenght of time needed to train pilots and I believe the current Exp levels of new pilots are too low.
From the editor manual, page 51:
"Note that a rating of 50-60 is a thoroughly trained pilot with many months of flight time, but no combat experience. A rating of 25-30 is a hastily trained pilot."
Starting base experience of replacement pilots (Scenario 01):
IJN Army 1941- 35  1942-35  1943-35  1944-35  1945-35  1946-35
IJN Navy 1941-35  1942-35  1943-35  1944-35  1944-35  1946-35
US Navy 1941-40  1942-40  1943-40  1944-40  1945-50  1946-55
US Army 1941-30  1942-30  1943-30  1944-35  1944-40 1945-45
US Marines 1941-35  1942-35  1943-35  1944-35  1945-45  1946-50
British 1941-35  1942-35  1943-35  1944-35  1945-45  1946-50

So even after a full year in the off-map training program, until 1945, US Army pilots are only hastily trained? And US Navy, US Marines, and British pilots are barely better than hastily trained? 
I am not a pilot, but does it really take a full year just to teach someone how to take off and land?

I believe the starting average Exp for pilots in the replacement pool should be 50; that way a player can either send the pilot right to combat, or to a dedicated training squadron to improve the pilot's skills. This starting number should decrease for Japan in 1944/1945/1946, and increase for Allies in 1944/1945/1946. I believe that a higher starting number of 55-60 might unbalance the game too much, by favoring the air war over the naval and land aspects.




Sardaukar -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 3:24:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp


So even after a full year in the off-map training program, until 1945, US Army pilots are only hastily trained? And US Navy, US Marines, and British pilots are barely better than hastily trained? 
I am not a pilot, but does it really take a full year just to teach someone how to take off and land?



This may give you some insight, what was involved when training combat pilot:

http://www.talkingproud.us/HistoryWWWIIFtrPilot.html

Quote:

He graduated from high school at the age of 18, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor when he was 19, he joined the aviation cadet program and the Army just after turning 20, and now he's nearly a 22 year old-plus fighter pilot ready to go to work and bring death to the Japanese.

So after 12 months training, pilot is not really ready for combat yet. So yes, full year in training program really was only hastily trained.




witp1951 -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 4:11:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


P.S.  Nothing against you crazy and misguided hordes that somehow enjoy pilot training in a strategic game.


Canoerebel,

As one of these crazy and misguided hordes, I like the control this pilot training system gives me in a particular game. I can vary the resources I wish to devote to training. I can see in depth the skills of individual pilots I wish to develop. I can move pilots with particular skill sets to units with a tactical need for those skills. It does require effort on the part of the player to accomplish this. I understand why some players prefer not to have to make that effort. This mod could be an alternative for those players. I prefer not to give up control of my training effort to a modder.




WLockard -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 4:26:07 PM)

I can deal with the pilot training fine, but I wish they had give the USN, USMC and USA a few training units on the West Coast.




Pascal_slith -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 5:34:31 PM)

This training, along with a the suggestions of ship and LCU targeted training, should have all been part of an 'optional' set of buttons. Then we wouldn't be in the debate 'I like it' vs. 'I don't like it'....




topeverest -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 6:00:25 PM)

Halsey,

I like the idea of a different training mechanism for American ship experience too, though I do wonder what it would be. A single naval combat typically takes surviving ships into the high 50's. That combined with putting your very best naval commanders in combat task forces seems to be OK. Nonetheless, I do bemoan the first few combats,as they typcially are of bad result (all other things equal)




Chickenboy -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 8:48:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Pant, pant...drool, drool...

The thought of no pilot training is spring water to a man wandering through a harsh and inhospitable desert.  I admit I can't follow your thoughts entirely, Altaris, but I applaud you for delving into the matter.  Go, boy, go!

Somebody, please create an AE that doesn't involved pilot training!  Get rid of the abomination that turns a strategic masterpiece into a horrid micromanagement hades.  Anybody that creates such a beasty will be a hero, a saviour, a White Fang bringing the medicine to the lonely outpost stricken by disease.

[:D]

P.S.  Nothing against you crazy and misguided hordes that somehow enjoy pilot training in a strategic game.

Of course not. Nothing against you misguided crazies that believe that pilot training shouldn't have a very important part of a strategic game.[:D]

Mod away to your heart's content, Canoerebel. I've got the game I want right now.




Halsey -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 8:56:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Halsey,

I like the idea of a different training mechanism for American ship experience too, though I do wonder what it would be. A single naval combat typically takes surviving ships into the high 50's. That combined with putting your very best naval commanders in combat task forces seems to be OK. Nonetheless, I do bemoan the first few combats,as they typcially are of bad result (all other things equal)


This could be taken to the level of detail that individual pilots get in the game.[:D]

Alas, it's not to be.
It's beyond the code that's already in place.
We'll all have to wait for the next installment of the Pacific War.[;)]




crsutton -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 9:17:22 PM)

Optional rules.

Pilot training on, click! Pilot training off, click!


Got no problem with pilot training. Could go either way. It can be kind of fun but takes a lot of time. Notwithstanding, I would like to see max level to train up any Japanese pilot. Perhaps by year. This is in skill levels and perhaps experience. For example, any pilot trianed in 42 would max out at 55, 43 would be 45, 44 would be 35 and 45 would be 30. This would reflect loss of instructors, lack of fuel and training aircraft and the need for pilots at the front.  Just too many quality Japanese pilots being cranked out as it is.

Allies could have some variance as well. For example 42 could be 50 max, 43 could be 55, 44 could be 60.

After that, any experience gained would have to be in combat.




jwilkerson -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 9:32:54 PM)

getting rid of horrid pilot training

Note that "horrid, horrid, horrid pilot training" has been pretty much the same since day one of WITP. So hopefully those who find it horrid now also found it horrid 5.5 years ago!!!
[:D]


I found then and I find now that I do spend a large chunk of my time looking at units and manipulating their training status and I do question whether that belongs in an operational level simulation - but I guess I have gotten used to it after all these years - and the word "horrid" doesn't much come to mind when I think about it.





Nikademus -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 9:47:31 PM)

Personally.....i find the grand campaign too huge to even want to, much less be able to attempt to manage individual pilots. I'm lucky to get my turn done in time as it is.




USSAmerica -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/13/2010 9:59:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

getting rid of horrid pilot training

Note that "horrid, horrid, horrid pilot training" has been pretty much the same since day one of WITP. So hopefully those who find it horrid now also found it horrid 5.5 years ago!!!
[:D]




Horrid, horrid, horrid.......... wicked, wicked, wicked Zoot! [:D]




TheElf -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/14/2010 5:59:53 AM)

Some thoughts on pilot training:

1. It was designed to give the Japanese player a chance. It wasn't intended to be an Allied tool, but we knew that if we didn't make it available to the Allies the mob would cry foul. It really isn't necessary to the Allies.

2. It isn't designed to give the Japanese player an edge, it's meant to blunt the formerly precipitous curve with which the IJ player's Airmen dropped off in EXP back in WitP.

3. We've added automatic features that can be set to your priorities. Use them if you don't like to micro manage

4. Finally, if you do NOTHING. You will get what you had in WitP. The basic structure of replacements, aside from an across the board lowering of EXP is the same.

Not sure what the excitement is about...

If you find a like minded opponent, just agree to not use it or limit use to the automatic functions.




Canoerebel -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/14/2010 8:36:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Some thoughts on pilot training:

1. It was designed to give the Japanese player a chance....It really isn't necessary to the Allies.


That's not what I'm hearing from other players in a variety of threads. Most players are saying that an Allied player who doesn't micromanage pilot training will be at a decided disadvantage in the air war to the Japanese player who does. I'm sure the vice-versa would be the same.

quote:

2. Finally, if you do NOTHING. You will get what you had in WitP. The basic structure of replacements, aside from an across the board lowering of EXP is the same.


Respectfully, I don't think this is accurate. In WitP Allied pilots arrived with fairly high experience later in the war. In AE they arrive in the 20s or 30s sometimes. Secondly, in WitP it was very easy/quick to train pilots by flying combat missions. In AE I have pilots with experience in the 40s after flying milk runs for a year or more.

quote:

Not sure what the excitement is about...


I think what excitement there is may be three-fold:

1. As we go deeper into PBEM games we are learning that micromanaging pilot training is necessary for one air force to compete on a level playing field against the other.

2. There was a recent thread about AE being a "simulation" instead of "a game." The ability of the Japanese to replace and train green pilots in vast quantities is divorced from history. If that's what we have then this aspect of AE is a game, not a simulation. For many players that is fine or even welcome as a game-balancing tool. For some it isn't.

3. As we go deeper into the games some of us are learning that we do not enjoy the pilot micromanagement aspect in an operational/strategic level game. [Not that we don't enjoy the game as a whole, or the great majority of it.]

This is not intended to be a slap at the overall game or quibbling with Elf. Just my thoughts on the matter.





Jim D Burns -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/14/2010 10:25:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The ability of the Japanese to replace and train green pilots in vast quantities is divorced from history. If that's what we have then this aspect of AE is a game, not a simulation.


But the entire game is divorced from history. There is a loud vocal group that has always advocated for historical accuracy in game, but has always been over-ruled by the play balance side of things.

From day one of WitP almost six years ago, the entire game has been this way. Someone in the games infancy made the mental decision that play balance would win out over history, and the game pretty much has stayed along that theme ever since.

Historically the US alone trained something like half a million or more pilots during the war and the other allies probably added another quarter million to that. Japan trained probably less than 50k and most of those were hastily trained pilots.

I forget the specific numbers, but this entire issue was hashed out once years ago during AEs development with all kinds of historical facts brought to the table including historical pilot counts, but obviously play-balance won out and Japan can still out-produce the US in planes and easily keep their pilot quality at very high levels all game.

So we have a balanced game that simulates history, but it is not a historically accurate simulation of the war in the Pacific, not by a long short.

Hopefully someone will someday do a historically accurate mod. But given how many years it took the team to do AE, it would probably be impossible for an individual or two to do a mod before their lives came to natural ends.

I think the only chance of a historically accurate game ever being done was lost for good when the AE team went with balance over accuracy.

Jim




Canoerebel -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/14/2010 11:48:17 AM)

Thanks, Jim.  That helps me understand the game better.  And it reminds me:

1.  The reason Miller and I are locked in such a balanced, fun game is partly due to these things.
2.  I need to temper my tendencies to think I'm facing historic capabilities and impacts.  Just because the Japanese pilots were lacking in numbers and training in the real war due to high attrition (and low replacement numbers) doesn't mean the Allies will face the same thing in the game after high attrition to Japanese pilots.

Perhaps that's fine - we have a more balanced, complex, very playable game that had to compromise on certain realities to achieve those qualities. 




mike scholl 1 -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/14/2010 2:50:37 PM)

Personally, I think it's a joke.  Remember those Japanese Pilots and A/C that went down like so much confetti at the "Great Mariana's Turkey Shoot"?  They had all been in training since the beginning of 1943 (18 months).  Apparently the real Japanese Commanders didn't know how to work the pilot training system either.

I wish the designers would have left pilot training out of the game entirely, and just provided both sides with the historic numbers of pilots at the appropriate training levels.  For those that wanted more "balance" they could have provided another "what-if button" (like the working US Torpedoes button).  To me it always makes the most sense to make a project as accurate as is humanly possible..., then offer options for players who don't want accuracy to "customize" their own game.  Best of all possible worlds.




Grotius -> RE: Mod idea for getting rid of horrid pilot training (3/14/2010 5:01:23 PM)

I wouldn't mind a toggle, and of course people are welcome to abolish all on-map training with House Rules, but personally I like the pilot-training system. It's only "ahistorical" if it allows us to train pilots to physically impossible levels without tradeoffs. If it does impose historically-defensible training rates and tradeoffs, then I'm all for it. There certainly is one giant tradeoff in scenario 2: Japan pays a gigantic "heavy industry" tax for all those extra pilots in flight school, tends of thousands of whom will never see action in the game. That means I'm required to expend resources training pilots who will never see action, instead of generating or stockpiling supply, instead of building guns, etc. As for the training rate, I'm sure not converting my level-30 pilots to aces anytime soon. I see skill increases and only the occasional XP increase. But my game is only in January 1942, so admittedly I need to see more evidence.

I teach history for a living, so I'm as interested in historical accuracy as anyone who claims to be a historical purist here. I think AE is the most historically-accurate wargame about the WITP that I've ever played, and I've played many of them, including several of the boardgame versions. I don't think it's fair to say that AE opts for "balance over history" in AE. Instead, it opts for player decisions over automated software decisions. If you want a perfectly accurate historical simulation, then you must remove all player decisions, not just pilot-training. The "players" should not be permitted to reconfigure task forces, should not be permitted to attack any bases other than those attacked historically, should not move an ounce of supply in different direction; instead the player should watch as the software executes these tasks automatically. That would be a historically accurate piece of software. I wonder if anyone would buy it?

Have you guys played Japan in AE? It strikes me as a much more "historic" approach than in WITP. No more torpedo-toting Betties all over the Pacific. No more rearming BBs from level 1 ports. No more dropping 100,000 tons of supply on a dot base in one turn. And even in the "Japan fantasy" scenario 2, my pilot quality is already dropping dramatically in January 1942. (In fact, in some ways scenario 2 makes the economic situation worse than historical for Japan, as you must pay double the "pilot school" tax on those thousands of extra useless pilots you get.) I haven't seen any AARs of Japan conquering all of India or Oz, as occurred in WITP. Heck, I have trouble taking all of the SRA on the historic Japanese timetable against the AI, and I *know* I won't take it all against my current PBEM opponent. But I'm not complaining that the game is ahistorical. Quite the contrary.




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