P400 Allied Wonder weapon

P400 Allied Wonder weapon (Full Version)

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jrcar -> P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 9:59:16 PM)
Gentlemen, we need to increase production of the P400! This unit has ONLY faced Japanese CV aircraft... excellent leadership (mine) and a rigourous training program (instigated by me) and some mechanical tweaks (again my idea... actually none!) has resulted in this unit shooting down over 100 CV aircraft. Here is the latest combat turn to demonstrate: Afternoon Air attack on Dutch Harbor , at 171,50 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 68 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 8 B5N2 Kate x 97 D3A1 Val x 70 Allied aircraft P-39D Airacobra x 25 P-400 Airacobra x 21 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed B5N2 Kate: 11 destroyed, 13 damaged D3A1 Val: 25 destroyed, 31 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed Allied Ships AS Pelias, Bomb hits 2, on fire AVD Mackinac, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage ACM Oak, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Drayton, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 3 Port hits 2 Port fuel hits 1 Port supply hits 1 [image]local://upfiles/6237/62DEAE92D97B4A5083A09C7730D2BB58.jpg[/image]

khyberbill -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 10:07:29 PM)
Those are good results. I would like to see the results of them going up against a sweep of Zeros above 20k.

CapAndGown -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 10:09:36 PM)
99 air skill. Wow! [X(]

Sardaukar -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 10:16:22 PM)
3 Allied top aces in my game are flying P-39D from Port Moresby, set to 100ft Naval attack. I was quite surprised when I checked Top aces to see those guys on top. I guess they tangle with Zeros during the missions...and apparently very successfully at lowest altitude band too.

jrcar -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 10:17:09 PM)
To be fair the victories have mainly been against the Val and Kate. In the early battles P40E and Kittyhawk took top cover at 20-25k (and tangled with the Zero... not so well) while the P39 and P400 at 13k took on the bombers. This rapidly raised their skill and experiance! In this battle not many Zero were sent, and soo the weakness of the P39 and P400 didn't matter, while their numbers did! Cheers Rob

CapAndGown -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 10:22:24 PM)
Get them out of that squadron and into some real planes.

PzB74 -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 10:23:54 PM)
You know, I've been sweeping P-40s in Oz with crack Zero's and Oscars and can hardly get a 1-1 score against them at 15-20k feet. Something makes me think the P-40 is now performing better than it should!

jrcar -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 10:33:14 PM)
I'm not that keen on the P40 myself, but I tend to sacrifice it more as it has replacements. As a consequence the pilots have less training and more fatigue. The key as the Japanese to to keep the Allies worn down, poorly trained and not allowed to mass. The Allies to concentrate, train, then smash KB a couple of times :) In my opionion relatively speaking most of the planes perform in a similar band, it is therefore experiance, training and leadership that becomes the key differentiator. Add in tactical advantage (numbers, altitude, range) to the mix and you can't rely on the old WITP ZERO to smash all attitude. Cheers Rob

John Lansford -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 11:01:21 PM)
My P-39's at PM and Darwin have been absolute Betty killers; several pilots at Darwin are double digit aces now, and chew through bombers like popcorn. They hold their own against Zeros as well, makes me wonder how the program calculates air to air battle odds.

Nikademus -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/13/2010 11:43:09 PM)
firepower.

jrcar -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 12:45:57 AM)
Yep peace through superior... quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus firepower. Just don't ask them to fly high! Cheers Rob

Misconduct -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 2:04:17 AM)
I had quite a few inquires about the books im handing out, and i thought the idea was because general knowledge, main thing people want to know are specific information on best alt and turn radius for each aircraft. Putting P39s at 25k would make them completely useless, but rather leaving them at 15k you'd do just fine unless something comes in at 20k then pretty much its up to skill to determine the combat.

PzB74 -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 2:07:52 AM)
But this just isn't the case in AE; I've had 78 exp Zero pilots sweeping at 19-20k feet only to fight to a draw or worse!

Misconduct -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 2:10:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PzB But this just isn't the case in AE; I've had 78 exp Zero pilots sweeping at 19-20k feet only to fight to a draw or worse! there are so many variables in AE its really tough to decide that, I would say only way is to set a 75exp P400/Zero squadron 5 hexes away and test, however I do find zeros are easily to blow up but I mean they were fireballs if you touch them period, not even with the big 37mm.

John Lansford -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 2:10:52 AM)
I keep my P-39's at <15k and they tear through level bombers like swiss cheese, even if the bombers have escorts. IRL that just wouldn't have happened.

Misconduct -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 2:16:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford I keep my P-39's at <15k and they tear through level bombers like swiss cheese, even if the bombers have escorts.� IRL that just wouldn't have happened. Escorting was a problem, the escorts were tied to the bombers with only few alt higher (I do believe its 3k?) where the planes attacking can make one pass and run and escorts being zeros really have no chance to chase down anyone.

Nikademus -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 2:52:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jrcar Yep peace through superior... quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus firepower. Just don't ask them to fly high! Cheers Rob wont matter much in-game. Firepower variable remains king and as such in game is formidable.

Brady -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 3:17:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PzB But this just isn't the case in AE; I've had 78 exp Zero pilots sweeping at 19-20k feet only to fight to a draw or worse! Range, if their flying toward the outer edge of their range envelope than the whole fstigue thing can realy bugger up the works, even aganst poor planes and poor piolets. Not always but sometimes. The weapons model realy slights the cannons as well.

CarnageINC -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 4:12:40 AM)
Yeah, it looks like the firepower is to accurate. Real life results were way different. Possible tweek for a patch later down the road???

RevRick -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 11:43:31 AM)
Well, it kind of makes one wonder what would have happened if the Army had decided to keep the turbocharger in the aircraft as it was designed, doesn't it. The Allies might have had a P-63 equivalent in early 1942 instead of the (castrated)[that's what one test pilot said about it, if I recall] P-39.

topeverest -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 3:21:45 PM)
Its the pilots, mission settings, and commander - not the planes That's one hell of a squadron. They'd even be effective in a P-26.

castor troy -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 3:22:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jrcar Gentlemen, we need to increase production of the P400! This unit has ONLY faced Japanese CV aircraft... excellent leadership (mine) and a rigourous training program (instigated by me) and some mechanical tweaks (again my idea... actually none!) has resulted in this unit shooting down over 100 CV aircraft. Here is the latest combat turn to demonstrate: Afternoon Air attack on Dutch Harbor , at 171,50 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 68 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 8 B5N2 Kate x 97 D3A1 Val x 70 Allied aircraft P-39D Airacobra x 25 P-400 Airacobra x 21 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed B5N2 Kate: 11 destroyed, 13 damaged D3A1 Val: 25 destroyed, 31 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed Allied Ships AS Pelias, Bomb hits 2, on fire AVD Mackinac, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage ACM Oak, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Drayton, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 3 Port hits 2 Port fuel hits 1 Port supply hits 1 [image]local://upfiles/6237/62DEAE92D97B4A5083A09C7730D2BB58.jpg[/image] If all the previous enounters had the same (low) number of Zeroes then I wouldn�t wonder why they rack up kills. Shooting down one engined carrier based bombers isn�t that hard.

crsutton -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 4:11:57 PM)
Yes, I my game the P39 is just nothing but cannon fodder. However, my opponent skillfully only fights with superior mass and keeps me worn down. I can replace pilots but only just so. As said before here, you beat the Allies by keeping them on the ropes as long as you can. Once the Allies can train up pilots and build a reserve of planes, the party is over.

Sardaukar -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 4:25:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: castor troy If all the previous enounters had the same (low) number of Zeroes then I wouldn�t wonder why they rack up kills. Shooting down one engined carrier based bombers isn�t that hard. Unescorted Betties seem to be easy prey for them too... Well, come to think of it, any Japanese plane is easy prey for P-39/P-400 if it can catch it. problem was the latter part.

PzB74 -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 4:37:35 PM)
If the P-39 - 40 performed well with skilled pilots and leaders well below 15k feet it would be a-ok, but at 15-20k feet I would expect it to perform less well. No such indications in my experiences until now.

Nikademus -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 4:50:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CarnageINC Yeah, it looks like the firepower is to accurate.� Real life results were way different.� Possible tweek for a patch later down the road??? uh uh.

Misconduct -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 6:03:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus quote: ORIGINAL: CarnageINC Yeah, it looks like the firepower is to accurate.� Real life results were way different.� Possible tweek for a patch later down the road??? uh uh. Well considering you needed to be under 200 yards to land a hit with the 37mm, the accuracy was pretty much at its limits at 200 yards also, where 50cal could wreck havoc between 4-800 yards the 37mm on other hand, usually was fired under 200 yards for best results, because of the trajectory the best shot generally comes in a shallow dive and it could score accurate hits at 2-300 yards with ease, however that wasn't always the case. However if a pilots scoring more then 1-3 kills on bombers, it would be pretty accurate, however against fighters is another story, with just the 50cal's its possible to easily knock down a Zero, however forget ever even getting a deflection shot with the 37mm. I haven't got to test the P400 yet, as my game is barely getting out of Feb42, however I am hoping to see what results I can get at Port Moresby.

Andy Mac -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 6:03:27 PM)
My P400's have done ok when in their engagement envelope if they rise to meet a sweep they lose if a sweep comes down to them they hold their own Armour Firepower and trained pilots make a difference. They are pigs to keep operational though for a single engined fighter

PzB74 -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 6:23:37 PM)
Sweeping with 2 and 3 times the numbers always does the trick, but I'm still questioning how the P-40 can fight so well in high altitude. In WitP the P-39 / 40 were great ground attack ac, just like they should be. They could also put the hurt on unescorted bombers and tangle with poorly skilled fighter jocks in Oscars etc. In AE the P-40 is just as much of a threat as a Warhawk flown by good pilots. Something definetly happened here. A few examples from our game Andy; look at the height and also notice that even though 20 P-40's are enganged they usually arrive in packets as they scramble and try to reach altitude; Morning Air attack on Alice Springs , at 74,143 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid spotted at 48 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 16 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 12 Allied aircraft P-400 Airacobra x 20 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 destroyed Allied aircraft losses P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed CAP engaged: 20th PS (P) with P-400 Airacobra (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 10 scrambling) 7 plane(s) intercepting now. 0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact. Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters to 19000. Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Morning Air attack on Alice Springs , at 74,143 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid detected at 12 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 3 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 12 Allied aircraft P-400 Airacobra x 15 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 destroyed CAP engaged: 20th PS (P) with P-400 Airacobra (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 7 scrambling) 6 plane(s) intercepting now. 0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact. Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 22000. Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on Alice Springs , at 74,143 Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 12 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 8 Allied aircraft P-400 Airacobra x 7 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed Allied aircraft losses P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed Aircraft Attacking: 3 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 22000 feet * CAP engaged: 20th PS (P) with P-400 Airacobra (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling) 3 plane(s) intercepting now. 0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact. Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters to 19000. Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on 3rd Australian Brigade, at 74,143 (Alice Springs) Weather in hex: Severe storms Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 4 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 8 G4M1 Betty x 16 Allied aircraft P-400 Airacobra x 16 Japanese aircraft losses G4M1 Betty: 5 destroyed, 6 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed Aircraft Attacking: 10 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 14000 feet Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb CAP engaged: 20th PS (P) with P-400 Airacobra (5 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling) (1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.) 5 plane(s) intercepting now. Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 14000. Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes 4 planes vectored on to bombers ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also notice that actual kills are, strangely enough, always higher than those reported in AE. I think some 10 Betties went down in that last engagement - quite a few in severe storms and against 8 escorting Zero's at 14k feet! - Just an off topic comment: // In rl pilots always reported more kills than actual A2A losses; e.g. several pilots clamining the same ac shot down So why has this been turned upside down in AE? FOW should allow this.//

Andy Mac -> RE: P400 Allied Wonder weapon (3/14/2010 6:45:46 PM)
My observation is that only casualties caused to the original cap fighters are reported as loses in the combat report. i.e. if I have 3 up at the start of the engagement only losses amongst those fighters are reported as losses in CR so maybe the one loss you see Losses to scrambled fighters I need to get from the intel scheme. What you dont see is my true losees from those encounters or the damaged aircraft that are inoperable. I dont rely on the CR anymore but always look at the intel scream for my own losses my losses on CAP are always higher than the CR would imply Put it this way I had a sqn of 24 plus 4 reserve aircraft and they were only combat operational for 3 days before I had to withdraw them to rebuild. So I wasnt losing one or two per day. I had a couple of good days especially against Oscars or when the P400's in amongst the bombers but I lost more than I won and I had well trained pilots in those crates. p.s. no turn ?? [:D][:D]

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