What about an OPEN BETA?? (Full Version)

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sitito -> What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/17/2010 10:58:18 PM)

Hi,

Its obvious that this game is generating a lot of expectatives. Im sure that as me, hundreds of thousands of strategic games fans and lovers of the eastern front visit this forum every day, and they cant wait any more until the release. The die waiting for it. So why not an open beta?? Game will come out much, much, much more accurate if all the hardcore gamers that we are waiting since WIR for this new one we can play it in first person and help with the bugs, more than just give our opinion of elmos and others AAR (love them by the way) In many MMORPG they apply this policy with nice results. In some cases, as in Mortal Online in which im, open beta its for those who preorder and purchase the game. Just an idea....[;)]



Fintilgin -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/17/2010 11:19:30 PM)

I imagine it's because 95% of the people who downloaded it would just use it as a demo or a chance to 'play the game for free' and not give any useful feedback. My impression was that 'open betas' these days are mostly just for things like server stress load testing for big multi-player games and such.



PyleDriver -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/17/2010 11:59:36 PM)

Well I have seen alot of imput that could help. Matrix, Joel and Gary control this. Theres alot of controls that enter in...So POST A REQUEST, and see if they except....Erik (Matrix) is the man on this so. Tell him why you should be here... I got here, and entend never to leave...



ComradeP -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 12:00:43 AM)

Of course, the game's also still in alpha, not beta, I believe.



PyleDriver -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 12:17:45 AM)

Really guys were are looking for a few good men. This game is the best I've seen in my life. I go out on saying things, however we are close to beta, and if you are ready to spend the time and energy to jump in, then...Darn I can't find Eriks address...Joel have you got it. We need to push this now...It's been 21 months of testing. There is alot of smart guys out there...



sitito -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 8:06:43 AM)

Sure, i dont doubt about the quality and skills of the guys involved in the project. The game seems to be amazing. Improves and improves. U guys are doing a great job. Im not saying i MUST BE THERE 'cause im a great player or whatever....The open beta just was an idea because like me, a lot of people gonna buy this game yes or yes. So, if u decide to put a preorder purchase of the game, with beta test for all the buyers i bet many people gonna jump in...And when more people put their inputs the best the final product gonna be. Lots of companys do that. Just was an idea. Maybe 'cause i need to test it now [;)] so badly. Cant wait until the release[:D] But i do want u to think i dont trust the work that all of u are doing. That was not my point. [&o]



PyleDriver -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 9:01:41 AM)

You can't have open beta and secure your product...Hell China is stilling everything right now and there are others out there also...You have to sign a contract to test with us, these guys arn't dumb...



Theng -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 2:27:04 PM)

The reason why MMOs can have open betas is that without access to the server, that you pay for, you have no game. Even a beta WitE will be sufficient for a lot of people and putting in a security system that would authenticate the beta with an online server would be too costly, cumbersome, and create the ire of a lot of people. "Why can't I play in a plane or on the beach? I want to test it everywhere?"

What sometimes makes sense is to give the people who will pre-order the game access to the beta. The downside is that if the beta is not that solid and cannot cure cancer and bring world peace, that you have disenchanted customers who want their money back and spread negative feedback. Therefore the "open beta" is only a few weeks or days before the release and mostly drives the first patch rather than the release client.

The other reason why companies do open betas for pre-orders is cashflow management... better to give open beta than to go broke.



Banzan -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 2:55:57 PM)

Well, if you still need people for testing, you shouldn't have any problems finding them here. :)
I guess most people here (including me, hehe) would be happy to help with testing. ;)

Though, i think most people missunderstand the difference between "testing a game" and a serious alpha/beta test.

quote:

The downside is that if the beta is not that solid and cannot cure cancer and bring world peace, that you have disenchanted customers who want their money back and spread negative feedback.


The alphas/betas i know had an non-disclosure agreement with closed boards, so you couldn't really much "spread negativ feedback".
I guess something like this is used here too. Some testers already posted something like, "if i get permission...", then they would show us something. :)



Grotius -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 3:52:01 PM)

Some single-player strategy games feature open betas, too -- paid open betas. In particular, Stardock does this for the "Galactic Civilizations" series and other games in its catalog. You can pay something like the retail price for the privilege of playing the game in its beta state. When it's released, you are allowed to upgrade for free to the release version. It has advantages for the developers, who get a cash influx earlier, and who get input on a much larger scale -- even if only a fraction of all those paid beta-testers ever report bugs. It also has obvious advantages for players, who get the game earlier. But Matrix has never subscribed to that model, I suppose for fear that people will pass the game around before it releases, squashing sales potential.



Sabre21 -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 3:55:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Banzan

Well, if you still need people for testing, you shouldn't have any problems finding them here. :)
I guess most people here (including me, hehe) would be happy to help with testing. ;)

Though, i think most people missunderstand the difference between "testing a game" and a serious alpha/beta test.

quote:

The downside is that if the beta is not that solid and cannot cure cancer and bring world peace, that you have disenchanted customers who want their money back and spread negative feedback.


The alphas/betas i know had an non-disclosure agreement with closed boards, so you couldn't really much "spread negativ feedback".
I guess something like this is used here too. Some testers already posted something like, "if i get permission...", then they would show us something. :)


These guys have a pretty good system in place and due to the niche nature of these games an open beta wouldn't be cost productive. We have a very good core group of testers so far. Granted people get burned out over time and that will happen, and there will be those that come in to test only to find out it isn't their cup of tea and then never heard of again. But we are always looking for good testers, especially those that are motivated and if they have experience in this it really helps (but not necessary). I would rather see 1 tester that is willing to dedicate 20 hours a week rather than 20 testers that can only do 1 hour a week.

A lot of what is being done in game is also done by testers. We have guys with a lot of scenario creation experience that are in game every day working on and creating scenarios. There are those that work on the editor, the manual, the map and of course testing each of the scenarios. Pavel (Helpless) has done a tremendous job in helping with coding and coming up with some pretty cool in game player aids like the Commander's Report that consists of so many functions I feel sorry for poor Allan as he is the one that is rewriting the manual. I myself pretty much stick with the 41 campaign as does Lee (Elmo) while others do the 42, 43, or smaller scenarios (there is also a 44 campaign that's still in its infancy). I also manage the bug list and help Joel find new testers and get them started into the system.

I know it can be tough and frustrating at times sitting on the outside of a beta (in this case an alpha), but the testers read this forum all the time and many good ideas have come from off this forum. So just because you are not an active tester doesn't mean you don't have an impact on the game.

EDIT: BTW, there is a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) that each tester must sign in order to participate.

Andy



Banzan -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 4:15:27 PM)

Oh, i was mainly replying towards PyleDriver ans Xian.

I really like the way this is handled. Very nice info through the AARs from Elmo and PyleDriver, lots of answers from lots of testers and the designers. :)



PyleDriver -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 4:57:29 PM)

Andy does that mean you love me?...lol...I have put over 20 hours a week for 21 months in this, my wife is ready to disown me...Need a roommate Andy...lol...



Sabre21 -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 5:03:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Andy does that mean you love me?...lol...I have put over 20 hours a week for 21 months in this, my wife is ready to disown me...Need a roommate Andy...lol...


You are too spoiled with all that warm weather, but if you want to come up here, I have a snow shovel with your name on it...oh and bring your own gun so you can shoot your dinner..lol.



Zovs -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 6:27:22 PM)

I know I have spent about 15-20 hours this week alone in my tests of 1943, that is when the wife is not looking or awake...[;)], heck who needs sleep its overrated...



wiking62 -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/18/2010 10:09:17 PM)

I just hope the game does not take too long before we can get our hands on it. It's great that games companies let us participate in the overall design process, but i am concerned at how long the games take to go gold. I was an avid fan of the original Bombing the Reich title that has been re-designed and released by Matrix, but the game took so long to come to market that i lost interest. We all want a good polished game that is bug free, but if the development takes too long you are in danger of other games coming out that grab our interest. The wargame market is very bouyant at the moment, with many new releases, and at the end of the day us consumers only have so much money available.

We are all hoping for a summer release and it would be very disappointing if it was not available before quarter three.



kadeen -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/19/2010 4:48:23 AM)

Long time lurker, rare poster. I just want to thank you guys for all the free play-testing you do for the benefit of slackers like myself. You folks add enormous value to these products, and it probably doesn't get mentioned nearly enough what with our serious concerns about the inaccurate number of up-armored Stug lll assault guns in the Croation SS Penal Battallion.



Wild -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/19/2010 8:38:43 AM)

I know everyone is anxious for this game to come out.I am too but please take all the time needed to get this masterpiece right.
I've been waiting 25 years for a game like this and plan on playing it and WitpAE for a very,very long time, so waiting a little longer is not a problem.



Obsolete -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/19/2010 10:29:22 AM)

It has been many years now since Civ III (Conquisator or Conquests?), boy does time fly.  But from what I remember, there were around 1500 signups on the open-beta.  One of the coders told me that less than half of them bothered to even give any sort of feedback.  So, interpret that any way you wish.

This was of course, the expansion-pack that Firaxis out-sourced to another developer to do.  Firaxis itself is not very beta-friendly.  This is perhaps why their patches are so terrible, and they break as much as they fix.  In most cases, it is obvious that a single run-through would have picked up some of the most obvoius problems.  This is one thing that has always annoyed me with that company, and it's getting worse.





Neal_MLC -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/19/2010 5:35:37 PM)

Having been a beta tester for such things like Windows 98 I have no interest in beta testing WitE but I would like to know what benefits MG offers those brave enough to Beta for them. A free copy of the game?
BTW I can hardly wait for this game to come out and a big thank you to MG for producing QUALITY games.



Joel Billings -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/19/2010 5:48:26 PM)

A credit and a copy of the game. That's it. And of course hours of fun and torture (often at the same time).

As for getting everything right before release, well it never is. On a game this big it's always better after the public has had a chance to play(test) it. Of course, we will try to get it to be very good before we release it, getting out the more obvious problems and trying to get the game as balanced as we can given the limited number of playings, especially PBEM. It will then be improved upon after release depending on the feedback we get then. Deciding on when a game is ready to ship is an art not a science, but we've had lots of experience and hopefully will make the right call. Thanks for your interest.



PyleDriver -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/19/2010 9:22:05 PM)

A "tester", well it is fun and at times torture. I guess for me is I've always dreamed of helping in game development. Sure I don't get paid but it helps fill certian voids in my life (like time away from the wife)...lol...I have tested for Joel now 44 months straight, he still puts up with me, so I guess I'll stick around...



Lokos -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/20/2010 3:55:10 AM)

Well, I, for one, would be enormously interested in any potential beta test - warts, frustrations and all. WIR, in combination with the highschool library's Time Life series of books on WW2 ('Red Army Resurgent', for one) was what got me interested in WW2 and its Eastern Front, in particular. Here we are, ten years later, and I've completed my specialization in that field. I can think of no better tribute than to offer up some of my time in testing WIR's worthy successor, for the next generation of burgeoning grognards. Being twenty-three, unmarried and employed part-time does have its perks, time-wise. As per PyleDriver's advice (I don't know why, but I think I referred to you as PvtPyle in that message, PyleDriver - my apologies), I've expressed my interest directly to Erik. Even if you guys don't need testers, it would be an honor to help in any way I can.

Best regards,
Mal



Lokos -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/20/2010 3:56:23 AM)

I just looked at my join-date for this forum. It's hard to imagine the six years it's been...



malfid -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/20/2010 4:07:00 AM)

Well, now I feel rather stupid. I just tried to change the email address in my profile, mistyped it using an email I no longer have access to, and it's saying my account is not activated now... Lokos is no more. Arise, malfid! :(



Pipewrench -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/20/2010 11:56:12 AM)

just to throw in my 2 cents I for one would be willing to pay for the chance to be in the beta. I'm working 50 hours a week but my 10+ hours on the game might just help with the development.The cash injection might spur the development into a completed state.

Of course make the beta release with certain features disabled. eg. only russian player available or a certain scenerio available (if codable).

Speaking for myself I would be more than happy to try and help out financially and would like to add my time with hands off runs at night or 10+ hours per week of hands on - bug hunting.

Just email and my credit card will call....



Banzan -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/20/2010 12:06:35 PM)

I guess the affords to manage something like this, will hardly be worth the gain.
I am not sure about the US law, but in germany you really have to use some loopholes to be able to sell a softwareproduct already while its still not released (warranty problems with contracts of purchase - not 100% sure how to translate that into correct english :) ).



geozero -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/20/2010 8:11:38 PM)

Always the faithful beta tester here... let me know if I can be of help.



hammeredalways -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/23/2010 11:13:40 AM)

long time lurker, first time poster what about a variation on an open beta - you agree the beta testers and your normal process and T&C's and we the open beta testers will pay xx for the game, once the game is complete we get an original game - that way yo won't lose sales and you will I am sure get only dedicated beta's



sitito -> RE: What about an OPEN BETA?? (3/23/2010 12:02:25 PM)

AMEN [8D]



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