RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (Full Version)

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SGHunt -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 9:45:35 AM)

Jon

I am sure we all know you aren't looking for our advice - but it won't stop us from offering it! [:)]

What I love is that the three bits of advice were all so different, and that is what this game will offer us all - incredible flexibility within 'realistic' parameters of what can be done with the assets and logistics.    It's also fun to see how close we are to guessing OKH's intentions. 

And of course we want to be playing it ourselves....!

Stuart 



PyleDriver -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 10:44:10 AM)

(AAR) Model is powering to clamp Kalinin, Armin pulled his corps to provide a strong left flank...

[image]local://upfiles/20468/A0CF9C2AF5274C7CAC272C785A8E2AC5.jpg[/image]



PyleDriver -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 12:28:26 PM)

(AAR) Hube's XXIV PzC crushed the defence accross the Oka, and Balck rushed his corps across to form the bridgehead. There a rested corps and bitting at the bit...2nd PzA pulled to form Hoths right...Told you huh. Oh that was a month ago (4 turns)...lol...Oh and 6th army is about to be fread up. Then Kleist will sprng agian...

[image]local://upfiles/20468/4E75C43EB84D415FADFD1611943B8A52.jpg[/image]



Apollo11 -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 12:36:26 PM)

Hi all,

Nice Jon! [:)]

BTW, I think that it would be good time for Soviets to start evacuating Moscow... [:D]


Leo "Apollo11"



PyleDriver -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 1:02:28 PM)

Leo you know whats bad, I dream about this game, and get up and rush to the computer. I think I went over the edge. My wife thinks I have...lol...Another note, I am pressing them hard, and I tip my my hat to you Leo, because he knows how hard it is to keep the attacks going forward. Guess its dream power...lol...



jaw -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 1:05:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Not sure when Art divisions come in effect, thats a Q&A for Jim or Trey... You guys have mentioned AFV and Inf losses, the Art losses are hitting the Soviets hard. So how do they form these units when they can't keep there front lines units supplied with them?


Artillery divisions become available in October, 1942.



ComradeP -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 3:12:08 PM)

OK, there seem to be more clear terrain hexes between your current position and Moscow than I initially thought, although the path is still narrow.

That stack holding the rail bridge next to your spearhead does seem like a tough nut to crack.



jaw -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 6:30:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: von Jaeger


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Artillery is considered 82mm morters and higher in this game.


Damn, I wish I had seen your post before I chipped in!

But, surely 76mm field guns count as artillery?



Actually the Loss Summary just list casualties as men, guns, AFVs so guns could include anything from the 600mm Karl to a machine gun. I've never bothered to compare this summary to the actual losses to see what's included in each category but the detail loss screen shows every combat element lost that turn and to date. Maybe someone could prevail on Jon to give us a couple screen shots of the detailed losses?




PyleDriver -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 6:53:29 PM)

Well heres the loss screen for turn 11. I scrooled it down to show Soviet artillery losses. The big guns are getting hit hard...The armor losses really concern me at this point...

[image]local://upfiles/20468/0E73BDD7842E4F6F9121CF2D94B4E987.jpg[/image]



zbig -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 7:13:04 PM)

Please provide a screen shot of the entire front



Flaviusx -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 7:13:53 PM)

Infantry loss ratio has slipped a bit, around 5.5:1 for the Germans now, but still a solid exchange rate. The Red Army rifleman is taking it in the chin here.

The armor ratio is down to 2.5:1. Artillery is just a bit below 4:1.

So, yes, the armor numbers are the big question mark for the Germans. It's actually gotten relatively worse for them since the last screenshot you took. On the positive side: you've got some pocketed tank corps now. Soviet armor losses are surely going to increase now that they are actually committing armor to battle.



ComradeP -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 7:24:39 PM)

quote:

Actually the Loss Summary just list casualties as men, guns, AFVs so guns could include anything from the 600mm Karl to a machine gun.


In PyleDriver's screenshot, that is clearly not the case.

I'm not entirely sure how the game came to a figure of 34257, as adding up all mortars and non-anti tank gun losses in the screenshot doesn't result in that figure. Adding up all 82mm guns and over results in 18741 guns.

Either the system doesn't work as intended, or it doesn't work like you guys think it works.



Flaviusx -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 7:31:08 PM)

Perhaps it is counting the 50 mm mortars?




pompack -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 8:01:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Perhaps it is counting the 50 mm mortars?



no, that's too many.

However, if you take everything 80mm and above and add anything else that says "gun" you get pretty close. [:D]



ComradeP -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 8:02:35 PM)

Including all non-AT and non-AA artillery results in 36964 losses, so that's too high.



pompack -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 8:13:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Including all non-AT and non-AA artillery results in 36964 losses, so that's too high.


Note that the 34,257 number is labeled "guns" not "artillery". Try adding everything 75mm and above (mortars, howitzers, field guns, inf guns, AT and AA). You don't get 34,257 but it's close.

I wouldn't expect it to be exact since I would be shocked if there are no database typos in the aggragation fields at this point in the development cycle (or a list by device number if there are no ag fields to support report summaries).

EDIT: damn I wish this forum had a spell checker [8|]



ComradeP -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 8:22:50 PM)

Yeah, I noticed the results are close when adding up all 76mm and higher artillery, but they don't actually match up with the total.



Joel Billings -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 9:37:02 PM)

I added everything from 82mm mortar down the list to 76mm Infantry gun and got 34257 which is the total on the right side. The 50mm mortar is considered a infantry heavy weapon like a machinegun or anti-tank rifle and is not counted in the total.



wmcalpine -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 9:38:30 PM)

The number of permanent losses (34257) matches only if you add up the permanent losses between the 82mm mortar and the 76mm infantry gun, including the AA MGs.

Drats, Joel beat me to it.



PyleDriver -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 9:47:22 PM)

Well heres an overview on level 4 of the Moscow area. With Hoths bridgehead across the Oka, the heat is on. I really needed 2nd PzA to pull up the right of Hoth, which it did. With Model pressing Kalinin and Hoth across the Oka from the south this should get good... I have mabe 5 weeks of good weather left. Unlike 41, I have winter clothing and can contunue this into the winter, if need be...

[image]local://upfiles/20468/B3D1C5178778423FBD0CA15F0A07BDEA.jpg[/image]



Zorch -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 10:18:41 PM)

I really don't think 5 weeks is enough time to encircle Moscow. Your spearheads will be very exposed when mud comes.
But it's going to be great fun watching...



PyleDriver -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 10:32:03 PM)

This is still (DAR) level 4, I have stuff Im still moving in the rear. However you have to love Kleist's 1st PzA. One guy mentioned he should join in the attack on Moscow. He is. The threat of busting into the rear is just to great and has to be countered. 6th Army is about to be freed now, and Kleist will roll the line... Remember guys, the party is in Moscow...

[image]local://upfiles/20468/0CF2E453E7284216849686295FB1FF2C.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 10:32:31 PM)

A conservative alternative here might be to try to pocket everything between Kalinin and Kaluga before the mud hits, and clear the decks for flanking Moscow from the NE after the Rasputitsa. Hoth and Model are well set up for that and there's time enough to do it. And this doesn't leave them overly exposed when the mud hits, either. They'd wind up somewhere NW of Moscow sitting and the Moscow/Leningrad rail would be in their possession, making it very difficult for the Sovs to reinforce that flank.

They wouldn't be irrevocably committed to an encirclement operation, either. They could choose to stop then and there and go into winter quarters with a very threatening position going into 1943.




PyleDriver -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 10:48:42 PM)

Flav, its hell or high water. To the throat is where I'm going...Did you miss the premise of this post?



Flaviusx -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 10:55:13 PM)

Just throwing ideas out there, is all. I remain skeptical about your drive with Kliest, btw. Still a lot of red armor down there and they're feeling frisky.






PyleDriver -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/10/2010 11:21:04 PM)

Flav, the good thing is there not around Moscow...Get it...Just watch, I have more in store...Damn I love this game...You have to pull there reserves around, otherwise they will crush you. I'm getting hit with losses I don't like because of them.



SGHunt -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/11/2010 9:16:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

I really don't think 5 weeks is enough time to encircle Moscow. Your spearheads will be very exposed when mud comes.
But it's going to be great fun watching...


I don't agree, Zorch. It's five turns and 60 miles, and see what Jon has done in five turns, especially South of Moscow. And he has Kleist doing another number (I look forward to seeing the finessse here) on the Russian reserves that ought to be defending against Hoth... With 1st PzA tucked in close he should be able to make it (although another Inf Corps would help [;)])

My worry is that Model does not have another infantry army to support his flank. Armin's corps is too good to leave as flank protection and besides it will be needed for the last push over the waterways and canals. Is there some way of cobbling together a reinforced infantry corps from armies to the North (and Centre)? There's a panzer divsion that must be near full strength in operational reserve West of Moscow - that, plus two or three inf. divisions would be mighty useful to keep Model rolling after he has taken Kalinin.

Just scratching my itch again, Jon!
Stuart




SGHunt -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/11/2010 9:24:53 AM)

Sorry, it's 2nd PzA that's supporting Hoth



ComradeP -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/11/2010 10:24:13 AM)

It will be interesting to see how easy it is for armour to attack Moscow. It should be very difficult to take a defended Moscow with tanks, so I'd say a time table of 5 weeks against a competent defense and/or a heavily fortified Moscow might not work.



Hard Sarge -> RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR (5/11/2010 1:01:13 PM)

he is not going to attack Moscow





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