ground combat - surrounded enemies (Full Version)

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jumper -> ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 8:39:21 AM)

Hi all,

in old witp, there was a problem with enemies surrounded in open field without any retreat path. Those bastards usually took weeks to get destroyed despite the overwhelming odds. I though that in AE this issue was somehow solved and LCU out of the base are not indestructible anymore.
Unfortunately I´m now having the same trouble as I had allways in witp. I got my a** kicked badly in China, but in the final I managed to stop japanese juggernaut and even managed to cut off and completely surround its spearhead consisting of 3 divisions + 10 other units. They are completely surrounded, totaly out of supplies, bombed and attacked daily. Despite the fact I´m getting 2:1, 9:1, 3:1 victories, they just won´t surrender. They even manage usually to cause bigger damage then they suffer which is driving me crazy. At this point I´m afraid, that I will just keep attacking until my units will get totaly disabled without any result. Just like it was in witp..

So how does it work in current model? Is it possible to destroy LCU in open field or should I avoid surrounding enemies at all costs like before?


thank you



wild_Willie2 -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 10:17:01 AM)

Never surround, then it will take forever to destroy them.
It's much better to let them withdraw 2-3 times before surrounding them, that way you halve their strenght 2-3 times before going in for the kill..  



jumper -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 11:22:45 AM)

Unfortunatelly it is no option here.. ;) There is only one hex between those surrounded units and the main japanese line, so once I would force them to retreat, they would be back home with opened supply path. And they would come back one week later at full strengh again, while my own units will be still shattered from this "victory"..
BTW enemies strengh is not a problem. While the japanese units started at about 1800AV, their adjusted AV is only 150-200 now against mine 1000-2000AV. Still they inflict the same or higher losses then they suffer..
I know this issue from witp, but I hoped it migh be different here. Well, lesson learned..




Swenslim -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 11:30:31 AM)

Saw no problems with destroying surronded armies, especially chinise. In my pbem game I outflancked and surrounded 32 unit chinese army with 2600 AV, it took me 7 days to destroy them.

I think it depends on morale and disruption level on how fast army will surrender.



jumper -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 11:35:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

Saw no problems with destroying surronded armies, especially chinise. In my pbem game I outflancked and surrounded 32 unit chinese army with 2600 AV, it took me 7 days to destroy them.

I think it depends on morale and disruption level on how fast army will surrender.



hey, these are good news! If it is a matter of disruption and morale I see a light at the end of the tunel.. Hopefuly it is not coming train.. ;) I will keep attacking!

btw are you talking about destroying enemy in open field and not in the base, right?




jetjockey -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 2:35:27 PM)

How long did it take for the Russians to destroy the German 6th Army at Stalingrad? Veteran troops will find a way to "make do," even with out supplies.



morganbj -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 2:49:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jetjockey

How long did it take for the Russians to destroy the German 6th Army at Stalingrad? Veteran troops will find a way to "make do," even with out supplies.

Yeah, but you forget that Goering was flying in all the supplies they would ever need. Massive quantities of every manner of goods, weapons, ammunition. Had they not been betrayed by their cowardly commander who surrendered just before the inevitable German victory, they would still be there today with Goering's grandson flying in supplies to them. [:D]

Well, that's what Goering said would happen at the time. [8|]



jumper -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 2:54:54 PM)

Hi jetjockey,

I know what you mean, but I have problem with something else. It is matter of numbers and it drives me crazy when the same numbers work different in bases and in open field. If you are without forts in the base and you loose "only" 2:1 you are immedietly done. No matter how many highly experienced veteran rambo soldiers you have there. It is instant result, clear and understandable and it happens in 100% cases. It is something you can count on anytime. On the other side the same result against the very same troops in the open fields doesn´t mean anything. Even 9:1 doesn´t mean anything. And I don´t understand why.. If you win, you win, It shouldn´t matter if it is on the base or in open terrain..





Xargun -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 3:36:16 PM)

Not sure if its still a fact in AE but in WitP it took a lot higher odds to get Japanese units to surrender (the whole surrender is dishonorable thing) when compared to the allied troops.

Xargun



Nikademus -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 3:52:54 PM)

AE includes new code and code fixes that allow for the wiping out of surrounded units by attrition. However it is still possible for very large trapped forces to hold out for long periods of time. Forcing units to retreat is often the best tactic to making them combat invalid.



crsutton -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/25/2010 8:33:08 PM)

It works, I wiped out a couple of Armored regiments near Katherine. It does take a while-especially if the unit are high quality.



jumper -> RE: ground combat - surrounded enemies (3/29/2010 3:40:01 PM)

Hi all,
just a short note: It took about 10 more attacks (from 50-200:1) during which the surrounded japanese units were destroyed one by one. First were destroyed all those artilery regiments and other minor units. 3 divisions and independend brigade were able to survive a couple days more, but were destroyed too in the final. All in all it is still much harder to destroy surrounded enemy in open field then in the base, but it is piece of cake in comparison with old witp, where such units were nearly undestructible.

In total it took about 15 victorious assaults to wipe out 3,5 japanese divisions (+ some minor units) out of supplies in clear terrain.



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