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Evil Tactician -> RE: Distant Worlds - Initial Impression (3/28/2010 9:38:00 AM)
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This would actually be an "advanced/hard" start in that it would be very easy for new players to get in real trouble not knowing where to best expand. We try to start you with one colony and a bare minimum resource network so that you can build things from the start.
Something like the pre-warp option in Moo2 - always been a personal favourite. I think the game would also benefit from a 'story-mode' or campaign just to ease new-comers in, gradually introducing new features and providing additional functionality until they are essentially playing the full game.
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I'm not entirely clear on this - each ship has an icon and when you form a fleet, it gets its own unique icon with the number of ships in the fleet that shows up on the map to show you where it is. You can also assign ships to numbered groups using Control-1 etc. to then call them up again by just hitting a number key. On the zoomed out view, each ship category has a different kind of icon (i.e. all military ships are triangles) so that you can see pretty easily where trade is flowing, where your military is, etc. If you click on a ship icon in the zoomed out view, their data shows up in the bottom left, telling you their mission and cargo (if appropriate) as well.
My main problem is that all those icons look the same. Once you set a few fleets/ships to automation, you don't necessarily know where each individual fleet/ship is located without going through the various tables to look it up. At the very least for fleets there should be an additional method to distinguish them easily. A handful of custom fleet icons perhaps? Even if you only have the option to show alpha/beta/gamma, etc anything that helps you spot things quicker and more easily would greatly improve the game.
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Hm, I hope this is just a learning curve and adjustment issue as I haven't had any trouble getting immersed in that way and coming to know my colonies, ships and trade routes. While it is possible that it's just not your cup of tea, I would encourage you to give it another chance. I can't help but hope that you will "get it" soon if you try a bit harder.
Definitely not the learning curve per-se. I've played most 4x games on the market and don't find this one particularly complex. That said, the interface and hotkeys/other functionality isn't always immediately clear so that can suggest a few things. Either it's different from the usual games I play and I have the wrong expectations, or the game itself doesn't make some of the functionality abundantly clear through the interface. The absence of a hard copy manual obviously means most people wont read that. Perhaps the tutorial(s) should go deeper into the various methods of controlling your empire easily - to make it easier for new players to ease into the game?
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Aha! Ok, now this I can help you with. If you feel things are too easy, use some of the many sliders on galaxy start to make resources more scarce, your initial system less "easy" and make the galaxy as a whole more unstable/restless. That should keep you much more on your toes. The default level is designed to be a bit more welcoming to new players. Personally I do not play on the default level any longer, I adjust the sliders to give myself more of a challenge, but as you can see from a lot of other reports I think the default level is a good starting point for most first time players.
A good suggestion - I will try this once the game has a few patches and mods under its belt. I'm not keen on the shipset I was given with humans and didn't find an obvious way to choose another set. Waiting for a Babylon 5, Star Trek or other recognizable set would increase the immersion and give the immersion another boost. I haven't given up hope yet! ;)
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Ok, so the first step is to get past your interface issues then. I'm an old hand with the interface now and have an easy time reviewing what's going on. Do you normally prefer to play more zoomed out or more zoomed in? If you could add in one interface feature that you feel would help you keep track of your ships, what would it be?
Absolutely the ability to spot more easily where ships are located. Perhaps an additional icon set for the zoomed out views - so the player can choose their preference. The circle/triangles don't really do it for me. Triangles and inverted triangles, squares, etc. with various overlap as they move close together. I understand this is a design choice and down to personal preference but I wonder if it would be easy to offer an alternative, or a few?
Definitely the ability to assign a letter/number combination (perhaps even just 2-3 characters would do) to any fleet/ship - visible on the galaxy/zoomed out screens. That would enable you to keep track more easily.
Maybe as simple as showing the hot-keyed ships/fleets like that? E.g. if you bind a fleet to the hotkey 8 you'd see a 8 overlayed over that fleet's icon?
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Aha, glad I could help - that's how I do it. If you double click in the name area for anything you have selected, it will bring up the detailed info for that ship/base/planet and you can rename it right on that screen.
Found it - that will do the job.
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Ok, I appreciate that you are giving it a go, please let me know if you have any more specific frustrations, perhaps we can figure out a way to get you around them.
Much appreciated. This kind of dedication is exactly why I stuck to the space empires series in the past: most early frustrations can be resolved, and a game can be vastly improved by both patches and mods. Both to which I look forward. There's definitely something to this game, It just has to 'click' still :)
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This would be really hard not to get into a major problem resource-wise. Maybe later as a "hard" option, but basically what we start you off with now is 1 Colony and just enough to have a basic resource network.
Perhaps a better overview of your empire once you start the game? Old games had brilliant ways to add immersion with small introductions or videos (even though they were immensely simple)
E.g. upon game start you could get a little introduction to your empire, showing you your home world, your mining colonies, the prime resources you control, etc.
Or implement 'missions' (guides, instructions, hints, whatever format works best) that guide the player to building mining based at locations which are desperately needed. The net effect after a 10-15 minute period is the same as a more advanced start - but the player has done the work themselves and feels more attached to the empire.
E.g. it could be as simple as saying "The Xiiaa Mining Corporation has submitted a proposal to you to build a mining base at <location>. They believe the raw <resources> will provide a boost to the economy. Your advisor estimates <impact>."
Something really simple can just add that little additional depth, making you feel even more that your empire is 'alive'. This is obviously only one example - such things could be of benefit throughout.
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If you turn off ship design automation, you should be able to redesign things as you wish and the AI will never update or change them after the initial starting designs. Do you mean to start with no designs at all? This seems like it would also cause a lot of trouble for new players, just to figure out what designs they need to account for.
Perhaps something to consider for that 'advanced' start :) Space Empires does exactly that - you start with not a single design. I absolutely love that, you feel like everything in your empire has been made by your hands and it was the first thing I looked at in the options.
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You mean just in terms of reducing the number of clicks?
Absolutely! If you are setting up a galaxy with 20 races, it's worth considering as it's a fairly simple tickbox :)
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I'm curious why you requested this? Espionage is usually a popular feature.
Unfortunately you are right, which is why it makes its way into any modern 4x game. I tend to not mind as most games have a feature to disable it. So far I haven't found it very disruptive yet in DW, but having the option to disable it is always good.
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Personally once I see the fleet icons, it's easy enough for me to click on each one if I need a reminder, though usually I know where I have each fleet. What would you envision as far as differentiation goes?
I think it's covered in 2 separate sections above, but your answer is exactly what frustrated me about it - I'd like to not have to click through all fleets/ships to see which is which. :) It's one of the most fundamental frustrations I have experienced with the interface. It's not easy to solve it and keep things simple at the same time, but nailing just that bit could be of huge benefit.
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Great suggestion and we should implement this as an improvement. Right now if you have a good sense of your economy you will know what you're missing, but I absolutely agree we should make this easier to see at the point of ordering something to be built.
I look forward to it. Agree that it would make things just that little clearer :)
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Yes, the percentage progress is already there for construction yards as well as the number of unbuilt components. Just look in the detailed screen, so for example for a space port double click on its name, then look in the construction yards tab to see what percentage progress it's at on each ship under construction. Same goes for ships being built at planets. For something being built in space, like a mining station, you can look at the construction ship details I believe.
Perhaps something to add on the info panel without having to go into the detailed screen? Usually I just want a 'glance' and not disrupt the flow of the game :)
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I do like carriers myself, we'll have to see what the future holds. We are certainly hoping to not just support this release but also add expansions to it as there is tremendous room for growth now that we have the basic game complete.
Please let me know when you do - carriers are the bread and butter of any of my fleets in other games and the game being in real time it would look even cooler. (The one advantage of a real time 4x game is that carriers don't have to be as tedious to manage as they can be in turn-based games)
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