How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (Full Version)

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HsojVvad -> How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/28/2010 4:50:40 PM)

I see there are alot of people who like to play Pre-Warp in their 4X Space Games, or at least with the one scout ship at the begining and nothing else. I know, DW dosn't have this setting, but we can still do it. Mind you I have no idea how to mod, but I will try and learn how to do it for DW, but for now, I just do this.

If you want to play with nothing but a scout ship like other games do, try this out.

As soon as the game starts, Pause the game. Then cycle through every ship you have. Go through all the constrcution ships and disband them right away. Then cycle through your colony and explorer ships and disband them right away except for one explorer ship and one colony ship if you prefer or even disband colony ships like i do. Then cycle through all military ships and disband all of them as well.

I tried to disband the star base, but I think that was a mistake so I will not do that again. We can consider that is our space station in space and would be logical to have one. I am not shure if I am missing anything else. I also hit the idle ships just to make shure I didn't miss anything. There is not much I can do about the mining base already made, but think of that as our infanstructure that needed to be made in order to get our first interglalactic travel ship ready for launch. I believe in real life we would have these mining bases or tracking stations we can think of them for our first ship that would travel outside our solar system and go to another star. (I am not shure if the editor would be able to delete these mining stations or bases, still learning how those work. If anyone knows, please let us or me know how to do it.)

So as you can see, with about an extra 5 or even 10 minutes of work, we can start with noting but a scout ship, or start with nothing at all but a small infanstructure, that we would have in place anyways before starting to settle other star systems.

Hope this will make some people happy about starting allmost pre-warp games. Try it and see if you like it.



Erik Rutins -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/28/2010 4:55:26 PM)

Good point - you can also use the Editor to set yourself up in a more "pre-warp" state if you want.



HsojVvad -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/28/2010 4:57:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Good point - you can also use the Editor to set yourself up in a more "pre-warp" state if you want.

How can I do that Erik? By that I mean, what should I be looking in the editor for?



Wade1000 -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/28/2010 5:01:19 PM)

Hah...except that all the other empires still have their starting assets and thus will have a huge lead over you.



HsojVvad -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/28/2010 5:15:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

Hah...except that all the other empires still have their starting assets and thus will have a huge lead over you.

HAH? so what? Don't we all complain that it gets to easy to beat the AI once it gets to mid to late games? So consider this a small minor difficulty setting then. If you don't like it, again, go into the editor and change it yourself.

Do you need your hand held for you to do anything? I give great KUDOS to CodeForce for giving us the tools to change things. Most games don't give us an editor, Moo and Moo2 never did this, I always had to get a user made editor. So now the power is in our hands.

So no more Hah's. Again what is an extra 15 min of work?



Wade1000 -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/28/2010 5:19:24 PM)

Alright. I didn't mean to seem antagonistic. I just wanted to raise a concern to some people(maybe new to this type of game) that might try it. I appreciate your creative thinking and trials.



HsojVvad -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/28/2010 5:24:28 PM)

I am sorry to. So hard to read sarcasm on the internet. Now I know what you mean. [:'(]



Evil Tactician -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 1:27:51 PM)

Personally, I look forward to having the option properly implemented :)



HsojVvad -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 1:32:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evil Tactician

Personally, I look forward to having the option properly implemented :)

You know what, I would too, but I am just greatful that we have a great game as it is now. Codeforce did give us some great tools to edit the game with ease though. Yeah I don't like it when other star systems are discovered without me doing so, but oh well. What is the alternative? Make a game yourself.

Then again, isn't that what Erik has done? He made DW as how he would want to play it. So this is his vision, not our vision. Also he is changing our vision by taking some of our ideas and implementing them right away.



OverlordCW -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 1:49:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Davor

Then again, isn't that what Erik has done? He made DW as how he would want to play it. So this is his vision, not our vision. Also he is changing our vision by taking some of our ideas and implementing them right away.

Elliot is the main developer of DW not Erik.



HsojVvad -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 2:16:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OverlordCW


quote:

ORIGINAL: Davor

Then again, isn't that what Erik has done? He made DW as how he would want to play it. So this is his vision, not our vision. Also he is changing our vision by taking some of our ideas and implementing them right away.

Elliot is the main developer of DW not Erik.

Thanks, I didn't know this. I just thought I read that Erik said he made the game on how he would have liked to play it. Still even if he isn't the "main" developer, wouldn't that mean he is a minor developer and he still has input in the game?

Either way, he is here to help us with our quesitons and addressing them when we need it. He is taking our input and is representing the game DW.



Pford -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 3:04:39 PM)

Agree 100% with Davor. I haven't been able to get into DW despite its obvious virtues and I finally figured out the reason why. The game throws too much at the player on start up.

In DW you miss the slow, majestic feel of getting ones empire off the ground. The first warship coming on line should be thrilling instead, even with the Starting option, you're presented with 20+ ships and bases, a war footing economy and a furious, hectic environment. I'd also favour an option permitting a single explorer and, arguably, a colony ship at the opening. This would also facilitate learning a complex game. I want to open my own first damned mining facility.

Another negative- is the extensive list of automation options. You can understand why the developer included them because the micro-management can overwhelm but the ever present temptation to use them ends up detaching the player, in my opinion. I'd prefer the option to disable many of them in return for modified victory conditions or, better yet, using them at the cost of administration points. Additional programming, I know.

Just my 2 cents.



OverlordCW -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 3:17:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Davor


quote:

ORIGINAL: OverlordCW


quote:

ORIGINAL: Davor

Then again, isn't that what Erik has done? He made DW as how he would want to play it. So this is his vision, not our vision. Also he is changing our vision by taking some of our ideas and implementing them right away.

Elliot is the main developer of DW not Erik.

Thanks, I didn't know this. I just thought I read that Erik said he made the game on how he would have liked to play it. Still even if he isn't the "main" developer, wouldn't that mean he is a minor developer and he still has input in the game?

Either way, he is here to help us with our quesitons and addressing them when we need it. He is taking our input and is representing the game DW.

Elliot is part of CodeForce, who is the developer, and Erik is part of Matrix, who is the publisher.



Krafty -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 3:26:25 PM)

Problem with a Space Empires kind of 1 planet, 1 ship, 1 base start, is that this game uses minerals and luxuries kind of like Civilization.

Starting off without those early mines, means you have X number of minutes to find and build mines on the resources you need in a mad rush before your economy collapses and you have to start a new game.

You could give yourself huge stock piles of everything, to avoid that, but hten youre not really not getting a "clean start" either.



Erik Rutins -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 9:10:09 PM)

Elliot is the main (and sole) developer, we are the publisher, but DW has been a cooperative project for over 2 years now with input coming from all sides. I would say at this point we all feel quite "invested" in it, but Elliot should get the lion's share of the credit.



Erik Rutins -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 9:12:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford
In DW you miss the slow, majestic feel of getting ones empire off the ground. The first warship coming on line should be thrilling instead, even with the Starting option, you're presented with 20+ ships and bases, a war footing economy and a furious, hectic environment. I'd also favour an option permitting a single explorer and, arguably, a colony ship at the opening. This would also facilitate learning a complex game. I want to open my own first damned mining facility.


We've seen enough requests for this that we'll see what we can do, but I can't promise what will be possible.

quote:

Another negative- is the extensive list of automation options. You can understand why the developer included them because the micro-management can overwhelm but the ever present temptation to use them ends up detaching the player, in my opinion. I'd prefer the option to disable many of them in return for modified victory conditions or, better yet, using them at the cost of administration points. Additional programming, I know.


Is there any reason you can't just use the options we provided to turn them all off and play at a slow speed? One thing I think DW does very well through the galaxy setup options as well as the in-game options is allow each player to tailor the game to their liking. The default options are set the way they are to avoid overwhelming new players. I turn off most of the automation myself.



HsojVvad -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 9:15:40 PM)

I have turned off all automation as well so I can learn what they do, and once I learn, I put some on since I know I don't need to worry about it, or I leave them off, because I like doing the mundane stuff. Then again I am in the begining phase of the game so I can handle most things.



miklos -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 9:24:40 PM)

I have tried 3 times to get into the game today, but the amount of stuff I start with with everything at minimum is just insane.

After seeing the videos and reading about the game, 2 of my SOASE buddies came by and tried and they had the exact same issue, there is simply too much at start.

To broaden the amount of players for this game, there need to be an option with less 'clutter' at the start, the optimal would be the 1 planet thing mentioned earlier. When I start a game now I have what 13-14 worlds and a bucketful of ships, all doing stuff and on missions (not private ships) - this from the get go. It's simply too much. I can see this would be an ideal starting scenario if you are well into the game, but right now the game to me (and certainly a lot of others) is simply unplayable.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 9:27:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: miklos

I have tried 3 times to get into the game today, but the amount of stuff I start with with everything at minimum is just insane.

After seeing the videos and reading about the game, 2 of my SOASE buddies came by and tried and they had the exact same issue, there is simply too much at start.

To broaden the amount of players for this game, there need to be an option with less 'clutter' at the start, the optimal would be the 1 planet thing mentioned earlier. When I start a game now I have what 13-14 worlds and a bucketful of ships, all doing stuff and on missions (not private ships) - this from the get go. It's simply too much. I can see this would be an ideal starting scenario if you are well into the game, but right now the game to me (and certainly a lot of others) is simply unplayable.



You are starting the game with the empire classed as developed in the game options.The basic start is with one planet.[8|]



miklos -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 9:44:40 PM)

Gah just realized that the starting value for size was 'Random' as the "lowest" value.

For good meassure this should be set to "starting" and random be moved to the far right.

[image]local://upfiles/34477/04CBE20769F642218DC5151FD7A5467B.jpg[/image]



ASHBERY76 -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 9:47:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: miklos

Gah just realized that the starting value for size was 'Random' as the "lowest" value.

For good meassure this should be set to "starting" and random be moved to the far right.

[image]local://upfiles/34477/04CBE20769F642218DC5151FD7A5467B.jpg[/image]


That is good point because I did the same in my first game.I think random needs to be put on the other end.



Erik Rutins -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 9:50:16 PM)

Miklos,

quote:

ORIGINAL: miklos
To broaden the amount of players for this game, there need to be an option with less 'clutter' at the start, the optimal would be the 1 planet thing mentioned earlier. When I start a game now I have what 13-14 worlds and a bucketful of ships, all doing stuff and on missions (not private ships) - this from the get go. It's simply too much. I can see this would be an ideal starting scenario if you are well into the game, but right now the game to me (and certainly a lot of others) is simply unplayable.


Please look at the game options again. You should be starting with one planet, a few ships and a few mining bases. Now I can understand why you are feeling overwhelmed! Please try again with the "Starting" setting.



Gertjan -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 10:11:43 PM)

My 2 cents: I'm not interested in pre warp



Pford -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 10:15:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: miklos
Gah just realized that the starting value for size was 'Random' as the "lowest" value.For good meassure this should be set to "starting" and random be moved to the far right.


Even with the 'Starting' scenario I find the game too busy, cluttered and hectic. You feel like a voyeur at a raging fire. Which, I suppose is OK at mid-point, but the franticness detracts from the leisurely sense of grandeur any good 4x game should inspire on opening. Your mileage may vary.



miklos -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 10:26:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford


quote:

ORIGINAL: miklos
Gah just realized that the starting value for size was 'Random' as the "lowest" value.For good meassure this should be set to "starting" and random be moved to the far right.


Even with the 'Starting' scenario I find the game too busy, cluttered and hectic. You feel like a voyeur at a raging fire. Which, I suppose is OK at mid-point, but the franticness detracts from the leisurely sense of grandeur any good 4x game should inspire on opening. Your mileage may vary.



I can certainly see where you are coming from.

The most "fun" I've had in the game so far is "rule in absence", which isn't good. It might be that this 4X is too much for me, but I've never encountered a game I couldn't grasp within the first few hours. This game just puzzles me and I don't feel that immersed by it, as I obviously should have been. It's like I can see the potential but just can't reach it.

There is a proper resources overview missing - I found a crippled version in the colonization planner, but to manage the empire there should be better tools available.

Also why cant I drag the view around as I please by holding down the left mouse button. Having to move the mouse to the edges seems so yesterday in UI management - same goes for the minimap.

Again I can see the potential but can't reach it [&:]



Erik Rutins -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 10:30:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford
Even with the 'Starting' scenario I find the game too busy, cluttered and hectic. You feel like a voyeur at a raging fire. Which, I suppose is OK at mid-point, but the franticness detracts from the leisurely sense of grandeur any good 4x game should inspire on opening. Your mileage may vary.


Have you tried "Starting" with 0.25x speed? That should seem pretty leisurely. This is a subjective thing of course though and there is always the Editor to modify your start to suit you better, but we hear the requests for a simpler (which will actually be harder) start.



Pford -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 10:38:58 PM)

quote:

Have you tried "Starting" with 0.25x speed? That should seem pretty leisurely. This is a subjective thing of course though and there is always the Editor to modify your start to suit you better, but we hear the requests for a simpler (which will actually be harder) start.


No, not the speed so much but the detachment. These aren't my bases or ships, not my creation. You feel like a relief pitcher coming in the 2nd inning after the starter was beaned on a line drive.



Erik Rutins -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 10:53:38 PM)

I guess I just don't get that feeling at the "Starting" size, there's really not that much out there, but I understand that it's subjective. Personally I keep a lot on manual control and start by tweaking a lot of my ships designs, etc. The closest AAR to my play style right now is probably the one posted by Okim in the AAR sub-forum. I feel a lot of immersion and involvement and "ownership" when I play that way.



HsojVvad -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 11:38:50 PM)

Well I finally figured out how to delete the mining bases and everything quickly. When you start your game, hit pause of coarse. Then go into the editor. No click on Erase. The first button, I think it's called erase object and click on what ever you do not want. I was able to delete everthing and just have my home planet and that's it. I love it. Mind you it makes for a boring game, but I have lernt a few things from starting with nothing and working from there.

Be very carefull though. Since there is alot of stuff over the home planet, I thought I was over a civilian ship, when I clicked on the home planet and erased it. All of a sudden it said game over I have been defeated LOL. I went WTF?! How can I loose? Then I realized I hit the home planet instead of the civilian ship.

So CF gave us the tools to do what we want. They though maybe we don't need a Start with nothing option, maybe there were right, maybe they were wrong. But instead of crying or bellyaching about it, start a new game, and spend 5 minutes or less of erasing things you do not want. This way you can start from scratch and build your first what ever you want. Me I build a large star port (forget the name, only remember the Large Part) and I think that is my International Space Station.

What I lernt from deleting everything was an eye opener. As the base was being construted, I went to my construction page, and found out a whole bunch of civilian ships were already being enquired to be made before the Space Station was even finished. So I am playing that this is Bronson (The Virgin morgul forget his first name) is making his toursim of space flights and getting into transportation as well. [:'(]

So if you want to play a game where you have nothing, go ahead and erase everything but your home planet. You want a just a scout ship, you can have it. Thank God, that CF gave us the tools to play this game however we want.

So use that editor and start playing Pre-Warp games. All it takes is the editor and a bit of imagination. Do you really need your hand held for you for everything?



JonathanStrange -> RE: How to almost play Pre-Warp in DW (3/29/2010 11:45:15 PM)

Either type start works for me; I'm not interested in the pre-warp type start personally but as an option? Good to have.



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