RE: Space Creatures (Full Version)

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the1sean -> RE: Space Creatures (7/20/2010 5:29:35 PM)

I agree that in general space monsters need to have more "piratical" (lol) features:

Show up on minimap with a special symbol (kinda like the old seamaps with "here be monsters") so as to note general area.

Drop rewards.

They already tend to:

guard powerful ship graveyards and good planets/resources.

I think that they reproduce???

are completely deactivateable in upcoming patch

As in my previous post about space monsters:

Space Dragons: Guarded the best systems with multiple awesome planets/resources
Space Amoeba: would nest and reproduce at habitable worlds, then fan out and grow/attack like an infestation
Space Crystal: usually located at mineral rich planets, making players work to be able to claim it
Space Eels: like Space Crystal, but at planets with good environments, again making players work for great planets
Space Swarms: (like a killer beehive)
Von Neuman machines: machines that replicate, like the Space Amoeba, but at resource rich worlds

More varies space monsters that look different, behave different (eat ships, live at X type stars, more territorial or less territorial, etc), fight differently (some like Kaltors attack armor in melee, others that attack at range and hit shields, have area effect, stop hyper, etc), and have some of them tied to the story, and some of them tied to the map only. Link some of them to galactic or empire wide events, [:D] Lastly, make them moddable!!! that way players can recreate their favorite Sci-Fi settings :)








jscott991 -> RE: Space Creatures (7/21/2010 9:20:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell

Monsters are crap.

Monsters = off is one of the best improvements made.


Totally agree.

I hated the monsters from the moment I booted up the game, for a variety of reasons (the concept not being the least important).



Gareth_Bryne -> RE: Space Creatures (7/22/2010 9:46:19 AM)

Greetings, jscott991! thank you for answering my question in detail. I'll bring our discussion from the 1.0.5.8 patch to the place where it should be.


quote:

1. The AI isn't very good at sending patrol ships to hunt them down (or at least wasn't very good).


Well, that's resolvable.


quote:

2. There are far too many, even on the lowest setting.

4. The annoying alarm klaxon sounds over and over when they are discovered.


I think the biggest problem is more with the alarm here (That's why I linked the statements). Although during a war situation the alarms go blaring really often. BUT I would agree that the reason for a war alarm is a better one.


quote:

3. The concept is silly. (Just my opinion obviously).


You obviously have a right to it, just as anyone does[:)]. But to get rid of them completely means rewriting the story (in my opinion, a good story makes a third of the game, and DW excels both in gameplay and the story), and giving their role of secrets protection totally to pirates (although a serious explanation would be required as to why the pirates didn't use these secrets while having them) or to a new third entity (the Altarans of MOO2 come to mind). Either way, it poses serious problems that cannot be fixed by a single patch.

(edit: my bad, I missed Erik noting
quote:

except for story-related locations
. So that seems a more or less viable solution.)


quote:

2. There are far too many, even on the lowest setting.

5. They add very little actual challenge to the game, but quite a bit of frustration and micromanagement.


You know, I would really like for you to clarify these statements, for they seem (in my opinion) the most important to me (That's why I linked them again). On micromanagement, in many MMORPGs there is a principle of "grind for cash, exp, lEwT, etc." I don't like it (that's why I don't play Lineage 2, for instance), but I do think there's some (limited) room for it. On frustration, it's not that hard to create a specified torp-based design to hunt them, and after that, only a certain (story-line) starbase can cause problems. As to their numbers, again, I don't think there's THAT many of them, it's the alarm (see above) and the gas cloud monster trace bug, that causes problems.

Thank you for answering, and sorry for being long-winded.

(edit: P.S. Oh, and by the way, did you note my above suggestions for Space Creatures?)



Shark7 -> RE: Space Creatures (7/22/2010 2:48:19 PM)

quote:

4. The annoying alarm klaxon sounds over and over when they are discovered.


There is at least a solution for this, though you get no sound at all now. Silence is golden [:)]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2479146

In that thread is a file that replaces the klaxon sound and replaces it with a 3-4 second recording of silence. This option does remove the sound entirely, not just for one instance, so take it as it is.



jscott991 -> RE: Space Creatures (7/22/2010 4:31:19 PM)

I played a ton of Distant Worlds -- far more than I should have -- for a while and the monsters were the most annoying non-corruption related part of the game. I should say, however, that I have played little 1.05 (partly as a protest at how many beta patches were released and the fact that they insist on creating new savegame directories every time and partly just because I'm tired of the game).

The AI simply cannot deal with them. No matter how many patrol ships I have in my empire, it always seemed to me that I had to deal with monsters personally, using fleets. I played with monsters on the lowest setting, but even at that setting there were a ton of them -- and not just in gas clouds. They popped out of structures on planets or were just lurking in systems because of the presence of debris fields or death stars. Monsters were everywhere.

The AI's problems don't just extend to patrol ships hunting them down. AI-run exploration ships, constructors, and trade vessels seem to forget that monsters existed, even though they may have just discovered them. Everyone is probably familiar with the problem of an exploration ship entering a system, seeing a monster, fleeing, and then reentering the system again and repeating the same experience. This cycle would repeat until the exploration ship ran out of fuel or I intervened. And, of course, the alarm klaxon would sound each time this happened.

And monsters aren't hard to deal with as a player. They are annoying, but not difficult. Most monsters can be dealt with by a small fleet, especially if you are lucky enough to find just a couple of derelict spacecraft early in the game. I never had any trouble killing early monsters with just one found capital ship or cruiser, and once torpedoes were discovered, monsters seldom had a chance (though, again, this required micromanaging the ships engaging the monsters). Monsters are not challenging to deal with, if the player personally handles them, but that takes time and is quite frustrating.

So, for all of those reasons, I can do without any monsters.

I will also say that you give a lot more credence to the story in DW than I ever did. The "plot" of a 4X game never mattered to me as long as it let me start a race from scratch. And, besides, how seriously should I take the story of a game that doesn't consistently (ever?) model the Sol System accurately? Even GalCiv got that right, and it didn't have much of a story.



WoodMan -> RE: Space Creatures (7/22/2010 7:00:32 PM)

quote:

I will also say that you give a lot more credence to the story in DW than I ever did. The "plot" of a 4X game never mattered to me as long as it let me start a race from scratch. And, besides, how seriously should I take the story of a game that doesn't consistently (ever?) model the Sol System accurately? Even GalCiv got that right, and it didn't have much of a story.


In any game if there is no atmosphere/story I lose interest really quickly.  To be honest DW is a little bit of a sidestep for me, my favourite game type are role-playing/shooters and the perfect game should feel like a really good book that you can't put down.  There hasn't been a game like that since the Baldurs Gates in my opinion, the Kotor and Mass Effect games made a good effort at it though.  Second most important thing would be moddability, so I can tell my own stories [:D]

But everyone has their own likes/dislikes so I understand your point of view.  The Sol thing though, in the Human description it says Humans are refugees from another Galaxy, I just assumed they named Sol after our own home.  If Sol system was named accurately then I would also expect the other stars to be in the same position with the same names that we have given them in our galaxy (Alpha Centauri, Wolf etc) so for me, DW does this bit better than GC2 did.



Cindar -> RE: Space Creatures (7/23/2010 2:01:42 AM)

I don't have a problem with them conceptually, if we assume its part of the universe. There are good story reasons for them to be there, so its all good.

My problem is that they should be easily handled by nearly any ship. Almost anything can out run them and all military ships can shoot them. A ship should never be lost to space creatures. Yet, the AI utterly fails at handling them and will lose ships in droves. Fix the AI so that they don't die from their own stupidity, and if space creatures aren't a good deterrent to ships any more then make the space creatures stronger to compensate.



rk0123msp@mindspring -> RE: Space Creatures (7/23/2010 4:25:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

Do you like the space creatures in Distant Worlds?




Sure, why not? They affect the enemy AI just as much as the player; anything that hurts my opponents = good.

If you like space monsters you'll LOVE this (space monster setting is at normal in this game). I lost the research base which drew me to this spot to begin with as well as one of my frigates. Needless to say, the Kaltors won this one [;)] I counted 37 Kaltors, and that's just what I was able to capture in the GIF image.

[image]local://upfiles/35683/6E099F8C140A45C09D19DAE8A94838F6.gif[/image]



rk0123msp@mindspring -> RE: Space Creatures (7/23/2010 5:03:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I like space monsters and yes they could have been done with lots more variation rather than just eating ships.Something else for the expansion pack.



I agree. I think there's a lot more that could be done with space monsters in this game. In fact, it kinda sucks there are basically only three types when we're capable of having maps with 1000 stars. Hundreds of space moster designs would be great. I'd like to see strong space monsters guarding rare luxury planets and planets of high value (like the Guardian did in MOO2). Forcing you to build either super huge fleets to take the planet/luxury or wait until better weapons technology is available.

There's a lot that could've been done in this game with respect to space monsters that wasn't. I think there's a whole level of modding here that has great potential.

Space monsters are no different than alien races in concept; I don't undestand the dislike there from so many players here. Monsters add color and make exploration more exciting. I'd like to see big space monsters that travel system to system that destroy whole worlds like the doomsday machine in that star trek episode .. perhaps becoming activated after the game reaches a certain year, giving players ample time to research technology. Gasseous Monsters that are resistant to torpedoes and other weapons but require certain technology research & components to be installed on ships (before dealing with them) would be a great idea as well. Also, planets that have "symbiotic" type populations that take over your colonists (like the Goa'uld in SG1). A "replicator" like alien fleet that takes over your ships if you get hit after losing shields would be great. Also an alian race that attacks from out of the galaxy like the andromedans did in MOO2 with completely different technology would be really kool as well.

I think distant wolds had a huge untapped potential that they just minimally developed in the release version: just 3 monster types in a 1000 star system??



Hertston -> RE: Space Creatures (7/23/2010 5:21:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell

Monsters are crap.

Monsters = off is one of the best improvements made.


Totally agree.

I hated the monsters from the moment I booted up the game, for a variety of reasons (the concept not being the least important).


Thirded. Some folks like them though, so as long as there's the option everybody is happy. [:)]



Pipewrench -> RE: Space Creatures (7/23/2010 11:38:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rk0123msp@mindspring


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I think distant wolds had a huge untapped potential that they just minimally developed in the release version: just 3 monster types in a 1000 star system??



agree 100%, this game is great but needs more work but I for 1 would vote for your idea in the expansion. After the last of the little bugs are crushed the universe is the limit to the expansions.

Again great idea.



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