Space Ports? (Full Version)

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siRkid -> Space Ports? (4/3/2010 2:02:28 PM)

Do you only need one per system or is it better to have a few per system?



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Space Ports? (4/3/2010 2:03:30 PM)

One per system.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Space Ports? (4/3/2010 2:06:10 PM)

You only need one, the only reason to have more would be for defense or the additional happiness they provide to the population on each planet.



siRkid -> RE: Space Ports? (4/3/2010 3:04:53 PM)

Ok thanks all



martok -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 4:59:15 AM)

I tend to build one per colony myself (I like the bonuses they bestow, plus the heavy defenses), but that's just me. It's probably not necessary to do it that way, but I'm just anal like that. [:'(]



kingwanabee -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 2:11:06 PM)

This is a good topic. What size space port do you usually build? I usually build a large space port in every new system, and then if there are further colonies in that system, they get small ports. Does anyone one use medium space ports? Is my strategy very smart? Would it it be better to build a defensive base near my extra colonies?



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 2:23:35 PM)

Personally, I've created a "population support" base, which is the same as a port, just minus labs, plants and space yards
So it contains recreation, medical, a couple of cargos and landing bays, basic defensive abilities

I then build them at any colony that won't have a space port, which saves me alot of money since they are 1/4 of the price of a small port, but still having the same bonuses to the population

As for space ports, 1 large per system, and 1 small on any other colony in a system of enough importance to require extra construction slots



tuser -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 3:16:15 PM)

Same here, I call it "Colony Outpost". Basic defense, scanners, recreation, medbay. Keeps a planet happy and pirates away.



Shark7 -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 3:26:50 PM)

I wouldn't even build 1 per system at first, maybe 1 every 2nd or third. Early game the cost of the Space port far outweighs its benefits (and you'll almost certainly go into the red on money).



forsaken1111 -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 7:26:36 PM)

I build at least a small spaceport in every new system. When a colony gets over 1 billion population I built it a medium spaceport regardless of whether there is another one in system. If a colony ever rises above 10 billion it gets a large.



Tomcat -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 8:52:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Personally, I've created a "population support" base, which is the same as a port, just minus labs, plants and space yards
So it contains recreation, medical, a couple of cargos and landing bays, basic defensive abilities

I then build them at any colony that won't have a space port, which saves me alot of money since they are 1/4 of the price of a small port, but still having the same bonuses to the population

As for space ports, 1 large per system, and 1 small on any other colony in a system of enough importance to require extra construction slots



I tried this, and I must be missing something, because the planet I built my outpost for is not claiming that it receives the benefits of the base. Any thoughts?



freeboy -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 11:05:52 PM)

we are talking system right, so if I have multiple colonies in one system the one port located on a differnt colony will still benefit my other colonies? sorry I am a little confused by the responses to origonal ?

Let me give you an example, I am playing with an easy help, the starting system is generous and I have several colonies and several mines... does one spaceport serve the entire system, or just a smaller area or just the one colony?
thanks



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 11:14:16 PM)

My understanding is ports only benefit the colony it's above, which is why some of us build a smaller and cheaper population support to give the bonuses to other colonies, but without bankrupting us

Think of this way, a large space port costs around 6000 credits to maintain and a small port costs around 2000 IIRC
In comparison, my own Population support is around 450, a major drop in costs
Of course, I do modify the port designs to loose some of the extra stuff I feel isn't needed for them, so for me ports are a little cheaper

Might be good if it had a lower benefit to other colonies in the same system as well



Jaimoe_MatrixForum -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 11:19:43 PM)

I tend to build one small space port per system, and build a large port only at systems of strategic value. I also tended to build research labs at extra colonies in a given system, but I like this pop support idea and might play around with that instead.



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/4/2010 11:54:56 PM)

In my eyes, with a pop support base, the only reason to build a space port (or at least with my own designs) is for the extra ship building capabilities, and a commerce centre
Of course, with AI designs, you do have the research part as well, but I strip those out in favour for dedicated all-in-one research centres



PDiFolco -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 12:28:06 AM)

I don't see the need to have a big yard everywhere, they're just needed to build ships and you don't usually build dozens at a given time .. So I have a few big yards, and several smaller for small ships and civilian builds. I also prefer to have specialized bases, so yards are armed but don't need research, so you can pack more construction bays than the default designs .



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 12:38:28 AM)

There is also a 2nd advantage to the "Pop Support" route
You can use constructors to build them, as they're just starbases, which I tend to have around a size of 110, you can even build them while you wait for the colony ship to turn up

Of course, not yet checked if colonizing also gets rid of pre-built starbases in the same way as mining stations



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 2:48:52 AM)

Just been able to test it out with constructors, and I highly recommend that route for anyone using pop support

The base does indeed stay intact after colonization, plus...

I had a race between a new colony and a constructor to see who would build first
The constructor was able to gather the resources, goto the planet and build the pop support before the planet was 70% completed

So, it's build before the colonists arrive, in less time, and you can use the colony to build something else instead if you so wish


So, the biggest question comes, are the bonuses even being applied?  Because the happiness box doesn't show anything, even for planets with Space Ports



Fat_Harry -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 3:01:43 PM)

I tried out the pop support starbases you suggested and also noticed that the medical and recreational bonus doesnt seem to get applied to the colony

Works fine from space ports though, although the ai doesnt seem to include the modules by default on small or medium ports



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 3:04:55 PM)

I've posted in the tech support forum about this, so hopefully we can get an official answer as if it's suppose to work on just Space Ports or any type of base as suggest in Galactopedia

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2427606



Interesting -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 3:09:12 PM)

BigWolf.

Could you post a screenshot of your specialized Design?

I also did the same in my game, but I would like to fine tune it.

There are some things I dont understand.

"Do I need a commerce center in all spaceport colonies?" If no, why not, exactly?

"How much cargo bay do I need in those small colonies?" I dont want to invest more than absolutelly necessary and I dont want to invest less than needed as well.

I will strip all research labs from all spaceports, except those I made on Blackholes, Neutron Stars, Super Nova Stars.

"Should I remove the manufactorers components if I already have atleast one colony in that system with one of each?"


AI design is too broad and generic, being cost inneficient.

The solution is to make a specialized research base, a specialized base for each colony for those "recreational and medical attention" bonuses.  But my question is, what are the minimum necessary ammounts for other components?

1 CommandCenter, 1 CommerceCenter
a. How many reactors? Just one.
We will be going for the cheapest budget, and wont be outfitting items that require too much energy, so probably one reactor will be good enough.
b. How many fuel storages? Just one. (bases dont move around)
I think that the fuel storages will only be used to power reactors or other ships nearby.
Since colonies benefit from energy collectors then we wont use the fuel to power the reactor and I think the only use for the fuel will be to "refuel" nearby ships.
Maybe we could let this function "a refuel alternative" to a bigger space port, or just let the gas mining stations handle it. Am I correct?
c. How many cargo bays? Cargo pays affect how fast ships transfer fuel and cargo, you need more if its a busy space port, with many freighters going on and off all the time, then we might want more cargo bays. Depending on the resources that colony has, we might have to micro-manage the ammount of cargo bays per colony. I still dont know how long does it take for a full "cargo/fuel transfer", but I think its fast enough that just one cargo bay wont hinder stuff. Anyway, adding another one is very cheap (in "end game", it added just 40 max price and 10 maintenance having 2 instead of 1).


About defenses.
Do you guys prefer lasers or anti-ship torpedos? How many shields and weapons? Does adding countermeasures to bases is worth it?


One of the great funs Im having is trying to find it out and every time I fiddle with it I improve it a little bit.




Sarissofoi -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 3:13:31 PM)

I bulid 3 types of space ports.
1)small space sport- main purpose is to add happiness for planet belov(that mean one for any colony), this SP have one shipyard for repair, refit and civilian build, one recreational and medical facilites, few dockyards for refuleing and some cargo and other stuff. Light armed and shielded.
Bonus for happy population is great, this help esspecially in new colonies.
2)normal space port- I bulit this in strategic points, more shipyards(5) and other stuffs. Light armed but heavy shielded.
3)Large shipyards- for mass building and refiting my private fleets(no escorts and patrols). One in early stage, more in later stages of game.




Cindar -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 3:21:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Interesting

The solution is to make a specialized research base, a specialized base for each colony for those "recreational and medical attention" bonuses.  But my question is, what are the minimum necessary ammounts for other components?


Just keep removing stuff until it says 'hey, you can't have the base without THAT'. Then add in whatever shields or weapons you want.

quote:

About defenses.
Do you guys prefer lasers or anti-ship torpedos? How many shields and weapons? Does adding countermeasures to bases is worth it?

I prefer the torpedoes. If you use lasers, enemies with longer range weapons can just sit outside your range and pummel your station, and you can't move closer to take a shot [:@]. For a small base, I'll generally have 10 torpedoes. For more important ones, 15 or 20. But I don't really care about optimization all that much since I'm usually rolling in dough, you could probably get by with less. I like stations that can defend themselves against decent size fleets all alone without support.

Shields is really up to you. I wouldn't reduce it below what the AI gives them, though.

Countermeasures/repair bots/targetting systems are totally worth it. 40% countermeasures from the best tech I BELIEVE means -40% hit rate So your shields/armor/shield regen is all effectively almost doubled just from a one small component. Targetting systems is the reverse for your own weapon accuracy. Repair bots are pretty nice since those stations take a lot of time to take down even after their shields and armor is gone, and they are pretty cheap as well.



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 4:03:33 PM)

Ok, lets see

Pop Support...
1x Command Centre
1x Recreation Centre
1x Medical Bay
2x Cargo Bays
2x Docking Bays (Though, one might be more than enough)
2x Fuel Cells
Weapons and defences comes to pref. I personally have no weapons, and 2 armour and shield

Then add as many reactors, life support and hab modules as needed to cover the above (usually 1 or 2 of each)


Concerning Plants, you MUST have at least one of each type at each port
Weapon Plants - Weapons and Armour
Energy Plants - Shields, Engines, Reactor and Energy Collectors
Industrial - Mining Extractors, Storage and other Plants/Space Yards (ie. too build Constructors)
High Tech - Sensors, Labs, Habitation and Computers

So you'll find you need all of them, the only exception if you're building a ship without weapons or armour... but tbh armour is a must, so you can't really skip on that either

Concerning Space Ports, strip all research labs, and try to only have 2 of each plant for each space yard on the port, you may even be able to drop the number of hab and life support units as well
I personally alter the number of yards for the large port down too 6 as well, with 3 of each plant, I find after the initial rush, you aren't mass building lots of ships anyway, so save yourself some maintenance costs, at the same time, you can still leave your original port up on homeworld so you can still take advantage of it's research and extra slots

As for research, all I do is create a facility with basic defences and weapons, then 5 of each lab, I worked out I'm getting 20 Labs for around 50%-80% cost of the 16 labs with the 4 original designs

Just to show, starting a new game, 4 designs, around 1560 each, so going at a cost of 390 per lab with infrastructure included
Maintenance is around 885, going at 221 per lab
Base size is 231

Now, combining it all, with adding 2 extra weapons and 2 extra reactors and 1 more fuel cell, plus needed extras supports and an extra lab each (so now of 5 each), it's at a size of 597, so still buildable to game starting tech
The cost for this one facility?  2212 Credits
The hitter is the maintenance, as it has doubled in comparion (1739)... but now the per labs
Bare in mind, there are now 20 labs on this one station, so...
The construction cost - 110 credits per lab, a saving of 280 credits per lab
The maintenance cost - 86 credits per lab, a saving of 135 per lab

The advantages? it's cheaper, you're getting more research, uses less resources in construction, and it packs double of the original designs punch with more spare Energy

The disadvantage? it's one target instead of four... but I can live with that



Shark7 -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 4:44:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Ok, lets see

Pop Support...
1x Command Centre
1x Recreation Centre
1x Medical Bay
2x Cargo Bays
2x Docking Bays (Though, one might be more than enough)
2x Fuel Cells
Weapons and defences comes to pref. I personally have no weapons, and 2 armour and shield

Then add as many reactors, life support and hab modules as needed to cover the above (usually 1 or 2 of each)


Concerning Plants, you MUST have at least one of each type at each port
Weapon Plants - Weapons and Armour
Energy Plants - Shields, Engines, Reactor and Energy Collectors
Industrial - Mining Extractors, Storage and other Plants/Space Yards (ie. too build Constructors)
High Tech - Sensors, Labs, Habitation and Computers

So you'll find you need all of them, the only exception if you're building a ship without weapons or armour... but tbh armour is a must, so you can't really skip on that either

Concerning Space Ports, strip all research labs, and try to only have 2 of each plant for each space yard on the port, you may even be able to drop the number of hab and life support units as well
I personally alter the number of yards for the large port down too 6 as well, with 3 of each plant, I find after the initial rush, you aren't mass building lots of ships anyway, so save yourself some maintenance costs, at the same time, you can still leave your original port up on homeworld so you can still take advantage of it's research and extra slots

As for research, all I do is create a facility with basic defences and weapons, then 5 of each lab, I worked out I'm getting 20 Labs for around 50%-80% cost of the 16 labs with the 4 original designs

Just to show, starting a new game, 4 designs, around 1560 each, so going at a cost of 390 per lab with infrastructure included
Maintenance is around 885, going at 221 per lab
Base size is 231

Now, combining it all, with adding 2 extra weapons and 2 extra reactors and 1 more fuel cell, plus needed extras supports and an extra lab each (so now of 5 each), it's at a size of 597, so still buildable to game starting tech
The cost for this one facility?  2212 Credits
The hitter is the maintenance, as it has doubled in comparion (1739)... but now the per labs
Bare in mind, there are now 20 labs on this one station, so...
The construction cost - 110 credits per lab, a saving of 280 credits per lab
The maintenance cost - 86 credits per lab, a saving of 135 per lab

The advantages? it's cheaper, you're getting more research, uses less resources in construction, and it packs double of the original designs punch with more spare Energy

The disadvantage? it's one target instead of four... but I can live with that



Honestly, you'd think a WiTP Japanese player like me would have considered all this streamlining, but I didn't. Good ideas, I'll definaetly put this too use in my games from now on, and make sure to save the designs so I can simply pull them up when wanted.



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 4:48:06 PM)

I will say that they could be better, but they work for me
Of course, you can easily refine them to suit your own needs, eg. in a more hostile universe, you'd want to put on more weapons and defences



Shark7 -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 5:31:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

I will say that they could be better, but they work for me
Of course, you can easily refine them to suit your own needs, eg. in a more hostile universe, you'd want to put on more weapons and defences



Probably will add more guns and shields for my own designs. I tend to build defenses and hide behind them until I'm ready to conquer the galaxy. Use enough guns, shields and armor so that the bases can hold out until a major fleet arrives.



Gertjan -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 6:26:24 PM)

I dont like designing my own space ports. I let the AI take care of it. I only hope it does a good job.



BigWolfChris -> RE: Space Ports? (4/5/2010 7:46:26 PM)

In fairness, the AI Space Ports aren't really that bad



Gertjan -> RE: Space Ports? (4/6/2010 7:41:57 AM)

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