RE: Latest Update Plans (Full Version)

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Fishman -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 6:50:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

in those cases, its cheaper and easier to just pay the pirates for protection. when pirates start shooting on a colony ship i pause the game, pay them off while paused, order it to colonize again (since it switched to run away) and then unpause and watch as they blast anyone else trying to move in on my planet while letting me by :P
Just plating a colony ship in a few layers of armor is far cheaper than paying them off, as the price of paying them off is worth more than the colony ship is! Then you can watch as the pirate lasers ping ineffectually off the colony ship's armor plating, and the colony ship just ignores them and goes about its business. Maxos Blasters simply don't have the punch needed to penetrate Ultradense at any range, and cannot penetrate Reactive at anything other than point-blank.



taltamir -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 7:06:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

in those cases, its cheaper and easier to just pay the pirates for protection. when pirates start shooting on a colony ship i pause the game, pay them off while paused, order it to colonize again (since it switched to run away) and then unpause and watch as they blast anyone else trying to move in on my planet while letting me by :P
Just plating a colony ship in a few layers of armor is far cheaper than paying them off, as the price of paying them off is worth more than the colony ship is! Then you can watch as the pirate lasers ping ineffectually off the colony ship's armor plating, and the colony ship just ignores them and goes about its business. Maxos Blasters simply don't have the punch needed to penetrate Ultradense at any range, and cannot penetrate Reactive at anything other than point-blank.


But it costs more to plate EVERY colony ship, even those that don't need it.

And if I knew they were there I would have killed them before sending in the ship... About the only time ever that I run into pirates with colony ships is when I try to colonize a planet with ruins, the colony ship explores the ruins and discovers a pirate beacon... suddenly its surrounded by pirates. So I pause and pay them off rather... early payoffs are cheap, they cap at about 6000, but by then my colony ships are worth 12,000 each just for their advanced engines and reactor etc...
Besides which, i lose precious TIME... and there are hundreds of planets to colonize and colony ships only build at a certain rate... So yea, its totally worth it to pay them off with an insignificant amount of money to ensure I am the one who colonizes that planet with the ruins.

mmm... is the rate of building a ship related to its cost? would a 3000 credits ship take 1/4th the time as a 12,000 credit ship to build? if so it might be better to use non upgraded colony ships. I don't give a whiff about the price if it makes them faster (high amount of colonies established per second = win). But if it increases building time i might be better off with cheaper, slower, weaker ships.



Okim -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 9:27:05 AM)

Wanted to mention some recent bugs just to be sure they wont be forgotten.

1. bug with world annihilator crashing the game.
2. bug with AI constantly auto upgrading defensive station design even if automation is turned off.
3. graphical issues with world annihilator image not showing all of the lights (very minor, but annoying).
4. AI factions sometimes not removing military ships from your system if they are asked to do so. This situation commonly appears if you trade the whole system from that faction and they have some ships/fleets left there.
5. nuclear devastator obsoletes first torpedo and is obsoleted by other torpedoes.



Fishman -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 9:27:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

But it costs more to plate EVERY colony ship, even those that don't need it.
What, like $100 a piece? I'd have to plate 50 colony ships to justify paying even $5000 to one pirate faction! And Kaltors don't take bribes. That armor is the difference between the colony ship being shredded and the colony ship managing to land with enough functional components remaining to establish the colony.

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

Besides which, i lose precious TIME... and there are hundreds of planets to colonize and colony ships only build at a certain rate... So yea, its totally worth it to pay them off with an insignificant amount of money to ensure I am the one who colonizes that planet with the ruins.
Just as insignificant a cost to plate the colony ship with 2 or 3 armor plates, and it works better as a universal solution. And you get the clean satisfaction of not having supported anything reprehensible and odious, not to mention counterproductive to your long-term interests.

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

mmm... is the rate of building a ship related to its cost? would a 3000 credits ship take 1/4th the time as a 12,000 credit ship to build?
No. The rate a ship builds is only loosely correlated to its cost. A ship's build time is more closely related to its size or number of components than to its cost. A ship that is expensive compared to one of comparable size and component count just means that it is being built using resources that, for one or more parties in the galaxy, are scarce, and therefore, the price of that resource is high. Of course, the person lacking that resource might not be YOU.

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

if so it might be better to use non upgraded colony ships. I don't give a whiff about the price if it makes them faster (high amount of colonies established per second = win). But if it increases building time i might be better off with cheaper, slower, weaker ships.
Colony ships have this distressing habit of LIMPING to their destinations. Upon coming out of hyperspace, they will proceed to limp pitifully and slowly towards the destination. MUCH time is then wasted on this behavior, greatly increasing the likelyhood that they are shot down. Adding extra engines doesn't really cure the limping, but it helps because it makes the limp slightly faster. WHY ARE THEY NOT DRIVING FASTER? The ship is rated for a speed of 20! Why is it driving at a speed of 5?



taltamir -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 10:01:33 AM)

quote:

Colony ships have this distressing habit of LIMPING to their destinations. Upon coming out of hyperspace, they will proceed to limp pitifully and slowly towards the destination. MUCH time is then wasted on this behavior, greatly increasing the likelyhood that they are shot down. Adding extra engines doesn't really cure the limping, but it helps because it makes the limp slightly faster. WHY ARE THEY NOT DRIVING FASTER? The ship is rated for a speed of 20! Why is it driving at a speed of 5?


I noticed that and it seemed quite odd, maybe its supposed to be a "perspective" thing where they are going "into" the planet? but if so they should shrink, besides it makes absolutely not sense for them to do that since space is 3d and... yea its just confusing as to why they do so...
there is really no reason for them to limp to a planet when given a colonize command...
mmm... would giving them a "move to command" so that they move on top of the planet quickly, followed by a colonize command when they are already on top of it bypass the limping period?

Fishman, is 100$ worth of plating really enough?



Fishman -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 11:23:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

Fishman, is 100$ worth of plating really enough?

The typical pirate weapon is a Maxos blaster. This weapon cannot penetrate even a single layer of UD at any range and can only barely damage Reactive armor at point-blank range. The colony ship only needs to survive long enough to land. So yeah, it's enough.



Sliverine -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 12:27:12 PM)

apparently why colony ships limp is maybe due to their poor rated acceleration? acceleration and top speed are kinda not the same...?



Bloodly -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 2:05:04 PM)

Colony ships have this distressing habit of LIMPING to their destinations. Upon coming out of hyperspace, they will proceed to limp pitifully and slowly towards the destination. MUCH time is then wasted on this behavior, greatly increasing the likelyhood that they are shot down. Adding extra engines doesn't really cure the limping, but it helps because it makes the limp slightly faster. WHY ARE THEY NOT DRIVING FASTER? The ship is rated for a speed of 20! Why is it driving at a speed of 5?

It's matching speed and course with the planet for the approach, sorta like a patrol or dock command-and planets move slow. At least, that is my belief. Why? God knows.



Shark7 -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 5:38:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Resan

Well a freighter isn't supposed to be a threat to anyone. And in no way to any base of any kind.



Not entirely, during World War 2 basically every nation had some form of 'Armed Merchant Cruiser'. These ships were nothing more than cargo ships that had hidden guns on them, usually a number of 6", 5" and 4.5" guns along with torpedo tubes and AAA mounts. They would fly under a neutral flag or no flag at all, then hoist their true colors only at the moment of attack (to stay within international laws of war), sinking or capturing enemy merchant ships. For all practical purposes, they were sanctioned privateers.

As to the effectiveness of these ships, the DKM Kormoran Armed Merchant Cruiser did actually manage to sink the Australian Light Cruiser HMAS Sydney in a gun battle off of Western Australia, basically Sydney left the area ablaze and was never heard from again. They did find where she sunk last summer...granted Kormoran itself was sunk in the battle as well, due to the fact that AMCs had no armor at all. While this is the extreme case, it does show the capabilities of the AMCs under good command.



taltamir -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 7:20:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bloodly

Colony ships have this distressing habit of LIMPING to their destinations. Upon coming out of hyperspace, they will proceed to limp pitifully and slowly towards the destination. MUCH time is then wasted on this behavior, greatly increasing the likelyhood that they are shot down. Adding extra engines doesn't really cure the limping, but it helps because it makes the limp slightly faster. WHY ARE THEY NOT DRIVING FASTER? The ship is rated for a speed of 20! Why is it driving at a speed of 5?

It's matching speed and course with the planet for the approach, sorta like a patrol or dock command-and planets move slow. At least, that is my belief. Why? God knows.


but it doesn't need to do so when its coming in to refuel, or ordered to just move to the planet. It would make more sense for it to move on top of the planet at its normal speed, then take a few "seconds" to colonize it (have a bar fill up) if it is intentional that colonization would take some time.



HsojVvad -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 8:15:19 PM)

Ihad this problem too. Not shure if it's because the moons were side by side, but I made a colony ship and it was on it's way to the planet but at a speed of 2. I had 2 other colony ships already made and settled in the futher reaches of the home solar system, before the first colony ship even made it to the moon.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 10:03:01 PM)

Any chance of a save showing that, Davor?



HsojVvad -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/15/2010 11:22:28 PM)

Sadly no. When I hit the quick save, it saved over it to my horror. Oh how I wish there was a sepearte save for quick saves. If it ever happens again, I will save it to a sepearte save. Like I said, because the moons were basically side by side in orbit, I thought it was a slow burn to get there. Once I ordered it to another planet in the system and then back again, it sped up, warped to that system then warped back at a speed of 7. Still slow but better than 2, and finally colonized.



Fishman -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/16/2010 1:31:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sliverine

apparently why colony ships limp is maybe due to their poor rated acceleration? acceleration and top speed are kinda not the same...?
No, they definitely limp, because they DON'T accelerate. They just STAY at less than their top speed despite not being anywhere close.



astote -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/16/2010 2:08:39 AM)

any eta on this update? forum/mod pages are looking a little dead.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/16/2010 2:31:43 AM)

As stated in the first post, we are aiming for a public beta around the 19th.



astote -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/16/2010 2:34:03 AM)

woops, must have skimmed over that. dang you guys are fast. good job. 



martok -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/16/2010 5:21:57 AM)

Erik,

I don't have a save game for it right now either, but I can confirm it does happen distressingly often where colony ships are slow as molasses when they drop out of hyperspace and revert to regular Newtonian space. It's as if over half their engines broke in transit or something....




Resan -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/16/2010 9:07:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jam3

Please please please make the name changing on update stop in the ship designer. Easily the single most frustrating part of the game at the moment.


/signed

Hands down my biggest annoyance with the game atm.[:@]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/16/2010 1:45:49 PM)

We have that on our list, but we don't know yet if we'll get to it on this update. If not this one, we'll definitely fix it in the next one.



Pocus -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/17/2010 7:19:21 AM)

Will this case still be there in the next patch:

I had a small colony (20 M or so people) in a system with a huge colony of another empire. A frigate of mine was around, and started hunting pirates in the system, around the planet of the big colony (of the other Empire), saving de facto the life of 2 freighters ships of this empire.

I got contacted diplomatically by the said empire, he asked me to stop having military ships in his system!! [:-]



Fishman -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/17/2010 8:42:51 AM)

See, this is why I just research Universal Communicators and get right down to the business of convincing the locals to join me, instead.



Sliverine -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/17/2010 8:49:01 AM)

Oh yea, the AI is pretty paranoid at times but i suppose thats normal. After all even tho policemen catch thieves and are generally a nice bunch, you wouldnt want one poking his nose around your house would you :D



Fishman -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/17/2010 9:44:00 AM)

This particular behavior is essentially a clash of values systems. The AI gets royally bent out of shape if even a single frigate happens to be flying about in a border system. A human player simply wouldn't care much, if at all, because a lone frigate is incapable of doing anything to them and clearly does not represent a threatening force...and in any event, merely removing it from the "system" has ZERO USEFUL EFFECT, since if it were really up to anything hostile, it could just lurk right outside the system, out of your ability to complain about it, but just as close, if not closer, than it was before!

Meanwhile, the AI is completely unable to understand why you might be incensed by the presence of an unarmed colony ship in your system.



Oldguard1970 -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/17/2010 9:35:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

.....

quote:

Meanwhile, the AI is completely unable to understand why you might be incensed by the presence of an unarmed colony ship in your system.


Of course! The AI is, after all, alien. We are not supposed to understand it. [:D]



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/18/2010 1:05:20 AM)

Updated list>?



Interesting -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/18/2010 10:10:35 PM)

Im very anxious for this next update.

Lots of much needed changes.

Thanks for the developing team.



Tacit_Exit -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/19/2010 8:42:28 AM)

Will the patch fix problems in old saves?

eg: I have a save where the ghost empire bug happens about 30s in, will applying the patch stop it happening or will bugfixes only apply to new games?



Baleur -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/19/2010 11:20:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: astote

woops, must have skimmed over that. dang you guys are fast. good job. 


Fast? mount & blade warband as gotten like 10 patches since release (after Distant Worlds). AI War gets at least 1-2 patches a week.
With the amount of broken stuff in Distant Worlds, i wouldnt call a beta on the 19'th "fast"



Oldguard1970 -> RE: Latest Update Plans (4/19/2010 2:42:21 PM)

Wow! We sure have different expectations. I side with the gamers who think Matrix does a fine job of offering grand and timely support.

As a small aside, from my limited previous experience messing around with software, I think it is wise to bundle multiple fixes into a single patch rather than issuing lots of smaller patches. Corrections to one "bug" can often cause unintended problems. When we bundled our fixes, we tended to be able to do a bit more testing. In addition, it minimizes the users' aggravation as they try to figure out if they are fully patched or not.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baleur


quote:

ORIGINAL: astote

woops, must have skimmed over that. dang you guys are fast. good job. 


Fast? mount & blade warband as gotten like 10 patches since release (after Distant Worlds). AI War gets at least 1-2 patches a week.
With the amount of broken stuff in Distant Worlds, i wouldnt call a beta on the 19'th "fast"




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