1.04b2 (and earlier): AI does not obsolete older designs (Full Version)

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taltamir -> 1.04b2 (and earlier): AI does not obsolete older designs (4/23/2010 10:54:17 PM)

The AI designs new ships if you enabled it to, but it does NOT obsolete the old designs. (whether you used the upgrade command on them or not... even if you did it should still obsolete those).

What needs to happen: 1. There needs to be a "protect" checkbox (near the current obsolete checkbox) that prevents the AI from obsoleting a design. 2. Any design that isn't manually protected against obsoleteness should be obsoleted by the AI automatically whenever it creates a new design of that kind. That is... when the AI creates a new destroyer. ALL current destroyer designs not manually "protected" by the player should be obsoleted immediately and at once!

What results of current behavior: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FA8serK6meo_uvAvUt-z4g?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sFDshNKXOkCXTxt0PDKzWg?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Qx2TDIQhFF8NC2FP0cSD_A?feat=directlink

Now, this example is TAME... that is because I CONSTANTLY obsolete ships manually (look at the dates on those designs). However, I have it get to over 15 of each subrole, and the build and retrofit lists extending outside of the screen boundary on the top and bottom (which, surprisingly, had a scrolling option IIRC).

Anyways. This is just terrible and arm breaking PITA to have to do. Auto correctly please (AFAIK, it DID auto obsolete correctly on v1.0).

And another thing, if ship design is on auto, the MOMENT you finish ANY research OR the MOMENT you trade for a tech OR find a tech in ruins OR steal a tech... it should immediately trigger a complete redesign of all ships and bases.



Sliverine -> RE: 1.04b2 (and earlier): AI does not obsolete older designs (4/25/2010 4:06:32 AM)

one problem that i thought might arise was if the automation updates all your designs every time a new tech arrives. While that is certainly a good thing which i think should be done, it does present the problem of retrofitting all your current ships to the new design which, if at late game, would simply be a pain to do. Maybe ship automation can be designed to auto refit ships whenever a new design comes out (not immediately tho...stack the orders like 10 refits at a time globally).

This is because while we have a mass refit option in the ships screen, if we have alot of say, escorts and stuff, it would actually be a pain to open the ship planner and get them all to refit every single time. Plus im not sure if this is the case but refitting cancels out the automation?

And this leads me to my next point, if we cant see new ship design names being reflected after refitting a ship, at the very least it should show the ship design type on the ship screen so i dont have to manually click on every other ship to check out whether its design is something i should change. It is true that we can assign vastly different images to each design type so we can actually use the ships icon as a gauge but still, some concrete way of doing this would be handy!



taltamir -> RE: 1.04b2 (and earlier): AI does not obsolete older designs (4/25/2010 4:46:18 AM)

quote:

one problem that i thought might arise was if the automation updates all your designs every time a new tech arrives. While that is certainly a good thing which i think should be done, it does present the problem of retrofitting all your current ships to the new design which, if at late game, would simply be a pain to do. Maybe ship automation can be designed to auto refit ships whenever a new design comes out (not immediately tho...stack the orders like 10 refits at a time globally).
If the designs are updated as soon as a new tech arrives, then you have LESS retrofitting to do, because you will produce more up to date ships and less ships with older tech. The fact that the designs aren't updated doesn't change the fact that you have newer tech and all current designs are with older tech. They should be updated at once..

anyways, this bug report is not about that issue, its about the designer not obsoleting designs, it simply creates new designs while leaving the old ones unobsoleted.



elliotg -> RE: 1.04b2 (and earlier): AI does not obsolete older designs (4/26/2010 5:27:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir The AI designs new ships if you enabled it to, but it does NOT obsolete the old designs. (whether you used the upgrade command on them or not... even if you did it should still obsolete those).
From your screenshots it looks like what's happening is that your manually created designs are not being auto-obsoleted by the AI. This is correct and by design - the AI should not obsolete your manually-created designs.

Whenever you manually create a new design, or when you create a new design by clicking the Upgrade button, this design will not be obsoleted by the AI. You must obsolete these designs yourself when you no longer want them. However your manually-created designs will still be obsoleted when you upgrade them using the Upgrade button - i.e. you'll have a new design upgraded from the old one, and the old one will be obsoleted (whether it was created manually or not).

This functionality is so that players can have multiple designs in a subrole (e.g. multiple types of destroyers) and the AI will not touch these.

quote:

And another thing, if ship design is on auto, the MOMENT you finish ANY research OR the MOMENT you trade for a tech OR find a tech in ruins OR steal a tech... it should immediately trigger a complete redesign of all ships and bases.
That's a fair point - I'll add that in.



taltamir -> RE: 1.04b2 (and earlier): AI does not obsolete older designs (4/26/2010 10:10:41 AM)

quote:

From your screenshots it looks like what's happening is that your manually created designs are not being auto-obsoleted by the AI. This is correct and by design - the AI should not obsolete your manually-created designs.
You are right about these being upgrades... but hitting the upgrade butting is not manually creating a design... besides, even manually created designs (especially ones created via "upgrade") should be obsoleteable unless manually protected against auto design obsoletion... that is, there should be a "lock" button that if clicked prevents the AI from auto obsoleting that ship... all other ships designs should be fair game for auto obsoleteness.

that being said, I recall actually testing against the upgrade = manual theory and letting it just run for a while and I remember it creating multiple designs without the mk monkier. However, that is clearly not what happened in the example picture above. So I need to find a better example.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg
quote:

And another thing, if ship design is on auto, the MOMENT you finish ANY research OR the MOMENT you trade for a tech OR find a tech in ruins OR steal a tech... it should immediately trigger a complete redesign of all ships and bases.
That's a fair point - I'll add that in.


Excellent... actually if this is done then there will be no need for me to keep on going into design menu and hitting "upgrade" every time I research a tech or acquire one politically... which in turn will resolve the problem indirectly.

It would still be nice if there was a protect/unprotect button I could use to mark a manually designed ship as safe for the AI to obsolete.



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