Turn-Backs (Full Version)

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harley -> Turn-Backs (4/25/2010 5:00:31 AM)

I'm just picking out something Mr. Bell said in the High Alt thread, I wanted to address it directly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell
As far as waiting for Harley to patch this, we've been waiting for him for what, 6 months now to fix the much more serious raid turn around bug and he's not indicated he's any closer.



Sadly, Nick, it's because I am not. We can't get a reliable save with the trigger for it, so I can't nail it down. I'm going to have to go through the code line-by-line to find it, and that's painful. I felt there was a lot more noise about the ergonomics, and that's something I can address. I've made some good changes to the intercept/patrol/lead/follow screens, and still have a big list to do.

The issue I think is that the turnback is triggered at the moment the unit releases its bombs, but the symptom isn't presented till between waypoints or something. I have found no evidence that groups launch in a turnback state, and none that it is triggered in the moments before they turnback. The saves with a reliable turnback are saved between the target and the symptom presenting.

Basically - any help I can get in finding a reliable state will be appreciated.



simovitch -> RE: Turn-Backs (4/26/2010 5:34:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: harley

The issue I think is that the turnback is triggered at the moment the unit releases its bombs, but the symptom isn't presented till between waypoints or something. I have found no evidence that groups launch in a turnback state, and none that it is triggered in the moments before they turnback. The saves with a reliable turnback are saved between the target and the symptom presenting.

Basically - any help I can get in finding a reliable state will be appreciated.


I'm a relative noob here but I have seen these turnbacks and they seem to occur right at the location of the last waypoint before they reach their base. I'll keep my eyes peeled.



Nicholas Bell -> RE: Turn-Backs (4/26/2010 3:28:32 PM)

Harley,

I was afraid that was the situation.  BTW, I did not mean to imply you weren't working on the problem.  I just thought it should be the focus of your effort.  I do also understand that just working on a single deep problem constantly may not be the best answer for finding the problem (burn-out and not seeing the forest for the trees...)

For what it is worth (and I suspect you already aware of this) I do not think the problem is that the raids are necessary just going back to previous waypoints of that raid.  I have witnesses raids against targets on the south coast of England in BOB return half way to France and then turn around and take a long excursion to the Midlands, criss-crossing England a few times before RTB.  I have seen this behavior at least 3 times I can recall.  In BTR I have only experienced something similarly bazaar once (and I have played literally hundreds of days in various campaigns and scenarios).  In this case the raid launched from heel of Italy against a target in Yugoslavia and on the return flight decided to take the long route to central Italy and Rome.  These Mosquito pilots were definitely lost!   However, most the "return bug" behavior in BTR appears to be directed back toward the target. 

These examples would led me to believe that either the waypoints themselves are being relocated during program execution or the raids are being sent to waypoints from totally different missions.   Something to do with incorrect pointers?



Derfel -> RE: Turn-Backs (4/26/2010 10:36:55 PM)

I think it is the pointers as I have, as defender, also witnessed day fighters close in with bomber unit, annihilate it and the their next target is hundreds of miles away. That to me suggest that that the waypoints get reassigned and the program get confused.



joliverlay -> RE: Turn-Backs (4/28/2010 2:57:14 AM)

This is very true. I have seen groups of fighters sent to intercept a bomber formation mysteriously change targets and head off to nowhere after a recon plane or something else. I'm not talking patrols, but assigned units. I've had a feeling it was because the unit I attacked fragmented into smaller groups and the target ID was somehow reassigned to another group of aircraft.



harley -> RE: Turn-Backs (4/28/2010 4:52:35 AM)

Derfel, joliverlay, that's the AI intercept code, and is a 100% different bucket. 



kaybayray -> RE: Turn-Backs (4/28/2010 2:22:50 PM)

Hey Harley <S> Sir

I am seeing the same as simovitch I believe. I have not run that many missions over the past several months because I was working on my thread in The War Room. But I have run a couple in the past couple weeks. It did appear that when the Allied Bomb Groups did the "Waypoint Return Doe-see-doe" it was the last waypoint on the return leg from their Strike to their Home Base.

I dont know if this will help you Harley. I will try to pay closer attention over the coming weeks and see if I can get you some more reliable data. Is there any other items that I can collect that might help you? More than happy to try to contribute.

Regards,
KayBay [8D]



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