RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (Full Version)

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ny59giants -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/6/2010 10:09:34 PM)

Is someone (JuanG, John 3rd, or FatR) going to post this problem in Tech Support to get feedback there about reload problem??



FatR -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/6/2010 10:17:05 PM)

I had various ammo problems. Forming a single-ship TF from a battleship and disbanding it into port seems to be the most reliable way of reloading ammo. Even then, the port might not have enough ops points to reload everything in a single day, particularly if it is busy with other operations. I don't think this is scenario-related, except for the increase of ammo per gun.



JuanG -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/6/2010 10:18:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

I had various ammo problems. Forming a single-ship TF from a battleship and disbanding it into port seems to be the most reliable way of reloading ammo. Even then, the port might not have enough ops points to reload everything in a single day, particularly if it is busy with other operations.


Have to admit to not having tried the disbanding solution, but I dont think it would be any different. Will give it a shot though, as it would circumvent the need for a temporary fix update, as long as people are aware of it.

UPDATE:
Seems like the disband reload has the same limit, in otherwords only the smaller rear batteries will reload. Was a good idea however...



FatR -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/6/2010 10:26:03 PM)

Tried it with Yamato, still doesn't work. I used disbanding trick to rearm my battleships in ports too small for them to dock, but with enough naval support...

Juan, which ships in RA, besides Yamato, might be affected by this bug? I'll apply the fix of splitting oversized weapon groups to Scen 70 as soon, as I can.



John 3rd -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/6/2010 10:28:21 PM)

It's like to officially say that this sucks...

On the Japanese side we'll see just the 18.1" BB affected--right? I've used Nagato and Mutsu several times and haven't had--to my knowledge--a reload issue there. Guess this gives me the excuse to send them in Harm's Way to check...

Which American BBs are impacted by this?

Side Question: Should this affect your Mods too? I've never had an issue in the 2x2 we have going and I've used the BBs A LOT in that one...



JuanG -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/6/2010 10:38:16 PM)

John,

It should not affect the other Japanese BBs since their guns are already grouped in 4's. It will however affect the Fast US BBs (Iowa, SD and NC classes). The older US BBs are probably safe. May also affect Nelson class. Ill run a series of tests to find out exactly what is affected and what isnt.

The reason this does not appear in the old WNT scenarios is that those did not include the recalculated ammo loads, which are only in Mk2 AltWNT and which I included in RA.



darbycmcd -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/6/2010 10:42:20 PM)

I was not so clear on the potential solution. Are you talking about a database change? I know that it is theoretically possible with ongoing games, do you think it will be ok?



JuanG -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/7/2010 1:26:30 AM)

Basically, there are 2 solutions;

One that can be applied to ongoing games through DB update, but which does not address the root of the problem and will limit certain ships to only half their ammo or so.

And a second one that I would -not- suggest including as a DB update, because it involves notable changes to the shipclasses file, but which would however fix the problem near completely.

Ive run some tests, so far classes affected are Yamato, South Dakota, Iowa, North Carolina, Nelson and Richelieu. I've also found out that it does affect a few ships in the AltWNT Ultimate BB scenario, but no others.



John 3rd -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/7/2010 5:10:12 AM)

I just did a reload of Nagato and Mutsu without issues so we know these are fine as Juan alluded to.

Once we have hashed out a solution I will email all the RA players in my Group List.

I'm thinking along two lines of thought:

1. On-Going Games--Database fix providing the MAX allowable for the affected BBs. Can this be done and everyone be able to click a hot link posted here for their 'patch?'

2. FIX the problem with a new update to the Mod that new players can load and run with. FatR posted the most recent changes regarding aircraft and few other issues. We could work off that Scenario Files, fix it, and Post as RA, Version 3. If we look at that I have some ship changes that need to be made to the Japanese OOB.

This is my proposal. Comment and Ideas?



JuanG -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/7/2010 10:26:58 AM)

Agreed, seems to be the cleanest solution short of convincing the devs to twiddle with the code. Just make clear the difference to people so they know which one to download.



PaxMondo -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/7/2010 1:28:41 PM)

So Juan, this is only an issue for the re-calc re-load that you did, correct?  If the stock re-loads are used then this issue won't be seen?

(Asking to confirm as in one of my mods I am using stock and the other your re-calc.)

Thanks.



guctony -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/7/2010 1:31:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I just did a reload of Nagato and Mutsu without issues so we know these are fine as Juan alluded to.

Once we have hashed out a solution I will email all the RA players in my Group List.

I'm thinking along two lines of thought:

1. On-Going Games--Database fix providing the MAX allowable for the affected BBs. Can this be done and everyone be able to click a hot link posted here for their 'patch?'

2. FIX the problem with a new update to the Mod that new players can load and run with. FatR posted the most recent changes regarding aircraft and few other issues. We could work off that Scenario Files, fix it, and Post as RA, Version 3. If we look at that I have some ship changes that need to be made to the Japanese OOB.

This is my proposal. Comment and Ideas?



I would love DB upgrade or else my Pbem will probably end. I need Yamato deeply. It is a deterent force when you enlarge your defence perimeter from Attu to pearl and to Suva. Probably I would suggest 2 2 2 front turret layout to maximize the loadout effect. But it wont be accepted for sure.



FatR -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/7/2010 2:15:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I just did a reload of Nagato and Mutsu without issues so we know these are fine as Juan alluded to.

Once we have hashed out a solution I will email all the RA players in my Group List.

I'm thinking along two lines of thought:

1. On-Going Games--Database fix providing the MAX allowable for the affected BBs. Can this be done and everyone be able to click a hot link posted here for their 'patch?'

2. FIX the problem with a new update to the Mod that new players can load and run with. FatR posted the most recent changes regarding aircraft and few other issues. We could work off that Scenario Files, fix it, and Post as RA, Version 3. If we look at that I have some ship changes that need to be made to the Japanese OOB.

This is my proposal. Comment and Ideas?


I propose to post the ship clases file (remind me, what file it is) with reduced ammo loadouts (to 12 per gun?) here, and then a true fix, as you said.



John 3rd -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/7/2010 7:01:23 PM)

I am not sure as to which file is the ships file. Juan?


Once found--Stanislav--just go ahead and fix it. Please send me ALL the updated files and I'll begin to work on the perminant solution as well as some OOB stuff.

The OOB changes will be discussed here when that work begins...



FatR -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/8/2010 3:15:00 AM)

In case we're going to be making any changes to OOB - airgroups on building carriers, all of them, should be reequipped with early-war planes. Juan's mods actually got this right. Acceleration that allows carriers to arrive with planes that shouldn't be available yet is definitely possible at least for some of the ships, even with economics running on a tighter budget.



John 3rd -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/8/2010 3:21:02 AM)

Very good note Stanislav. I concur, however, lets hold off on this conversation until we've got things straightened out with our issue here.

Did you find the file for the immediate patch to work with on-going games?



FatR -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/8/2010 3:14:25 PM)

To avoid wasting time, here's the link to the full scenario. The only change is reduction of forward turrets loadouts on problematic BB classed to 12.

http://www.box.net/shared/d2e40iyyyh



darbycmcd -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/8/2010 8:13:29 PM)

So to clarify, can we pop this in and update an ongoing game?  I never quite understood the db update process for ongoing games......



mariandavid -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/8/2010 8:31:40 PM)

Having problems with downloading the art files (I am sure at my end!). Will the failure to do this (eg no picture of the new Shokaku mod carriers) cause a crash when I eventually have a fight which involves them being visually attacked?



FatR -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/9/2010 2:10:47 AM)

Theoretically, any sorts of DB changes can be introduced into ongoing games through the button at the bottom of the "Preferences" screen (after copying modified files into the Scen folder). However, this might cause unpredictable bugs. As far as I understand, Juan says that introducing only a minor change, like the ammo loadout numbers can be used to avoid this. So if you have played the latest version of Scen 70, you can just copy the modified files I've just posted to the Scen folder and update the scenario. If you are playing some previous version, just use the AE Editor to modify scenario files by yourself, changing ammo loadouts of the forward batteries on battleship classes listed by Juan, and use the above-mentioned button to introduce them to the scenario.

Mariandavid, I don't know what might be causing problems with downloading art files. Their abscence should not cause a crash. You might also PM your email to John or me, so we can send the files directly to you.



John 3rd -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/9/2010 4:57:04 PM)

Stanislav--I am a little confused on the last Posting. Did you make the changes down to 12 for the modern BBs or am I doing that?



FatR -> RE: Yamato Replenishment Problem (11/10/2010 12:03:57 AM)

I did the changes.

However, these were changes to the latest version of the mod, one that was posted on this thread directly before, I believe. Those who still use earlier versions in ongoing games (like myself) might want to update their files themselves, to avoid bugs, associated with major data changes.



guctony -> another serious problem (11/11/2010 8:58:47 PM)

I have another problem somehow I have ghost planes in my Cvs whic are preventing my air groups from flying any mission. I am at the middle of enemy territory. any sugggestion

[image]local://upfiles/32150/316E31A93AF044FBB692DDBB69D11D01.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: another serious problem (11/12/2010 2:22:07 AM)

You have 130 PLANES on the CV? They do appear to be phantoms. Did you re-size or mess with the air group in any way?



guctony -> RE: another serious problem (11/12/2010 8:04:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

You have 130 PLANES on the CV? They do appear to be phantoms. Did you re-size or mess with the air group in any way?



Nope it started suddenly and now it is all over my CV task force 4 Cv is effected by it.

they are phantoms



John 3rd -> RE: another serious problem (11/13/2010 11:26:56 AM)

I have no idea what this could be. Makes no sense for the game to do that. The fact it is on four CVs is quite concerning. My thoughts are to Post it over on the Tech Support area and see if one of the Mods can take a look and make a suggestion.

Please let us know what happens...



FatR -> RE: another serious problem (11/13/2010 11:29:22 AM)

I certainly haven't seen anything like that. That's probably Tech Support matter.



yubari -> RE: another serious problem (11/13/2010 12:28:46 PM)

The A6M3b, shown on the Kaga is not carrier capable, could that be the cause?



John 3rd -> RE: another serious problem (11/13/2010 12:37:51 PM)

That is a good thought. I only think wouldn't fly, however, there might be something to the idea.


NEW TOPIC: I spent a couple of hours last night and Thursday drawing up a set ideas/proposals for RA, Mk 3. Some are fairly big but most is simply housekeeping and fixing issues we already know about. If I get time later today I will Post the list and start the commentary phase of this.




Local Yokel -> RE: another serious problem (11/14/2010 12:12:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: yubari

The A6M3b, shown on the Kaga is not carrier capable, could that be the cause?


I wondered whether this might be relevant, too. If all Guctony's CV's are affected by this, it would be interesting to know whether they all have this version of the Zero embarked. If any carriers equipped with, say, the A6M2 are not affected by phantom aircraft, this would add to suspicion that this may be part of the explanation.

I assume that the A6M3b designation is intended to represent the Model 32 Zero which preceded the Model 22, aka A6M3a. I've never understood why the Model 32 is not treated as 'carrier capable'. Show me evidence that Model 32's were built without arrester gear and/or lacked the requisite structural strength to absorb arresting wire forces acting on the tailhook and I might be convinced otherwise. I know there's controversy as to whether Model 32's were ever on the operational strength of any Japanese carrier whilst at sea, but whether they were capable of being so used and whether they actually did so are entirely distinct questions.

Sorry. Longstanding bugbear of mine.



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