RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (Full Version)

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xj900uk -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (5/20/2010 12:27:02 PM)

I have tried moving units via strategic movement on major road (the grey ones) in Burma but the game tells me it can't be done. Anyone else experience this problem?
I presume you can only use road Strategic movement in certain areas - mainland US and Australia seem to be two but are their any others?



LoBaron -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (5/20/2010 12:50:06 PM)

Its only possible in US, Australia and a couple of US occupied territories IIRC.
Fidji and Noumea? Not sure.



Dobey455 -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/8/2010 12:39:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

British Army fully


I doubt about that, not even US was fully motorised. US Infantry Divisions had 1/3 of transport only.


Actually cantona2 is correct. At the start of WWII the British army was the only army in the World that was fully motorised. Not just the BEF, the whole army. To a great extent this was due to the relatively small size of the British army compared to other nations. The US had a much large army, for example, and so it was much harder (or impossible tbh) to fully motorise it.



Sardaukar -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/8/2010 1:10:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

I have tried moving units via strategic movement on major road (the grey ones) in Burma but the game tells me it can't be done. Anyone else experience this problem?
I presume you can only use road Strategic movement in certain areas - mainland US and Australia seem to be two but are their any others?


I have no problems to use Strat Mode on roads in Burma. Your problem is probably that units you try to move that way are not eligible for Strat road move. Brits can, Commonwealth troops cannot, Japanese cannot, for example.



jomni -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/8/2010 4:19:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Shouldn't be better to link that to motorised support instead of a blunt hardcode to only one side?


I read in a book that during the invasion of the Philippines, the U.S. employed local bus companies to transport troops to Bataan. So non-motorized units can move fast even without embedded trucks. I think this is the one that is being simulated (partly). But if you want to be accurate it depends on the country providing the transport and not the nationality of the Unit.

The act of contracting civilians to help transport needs to be done in cities.

Shouldn't the Japanese be able to acquire civilian assets for transports (if not forcefully) as well? The bikes they used during the Malayan campaign are from civilians. So isn't this a type of strat movement by road?



oldman45 -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/8/2010 5:13:57 PM)

Dili, didn't the Army have transportation battalions that were at divisional level that they used when they wanted to make a route move?



chrisol -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/9/2010 12:06:14 PM)

Does Strat mode make any difference to air transport of troops ?

Let's say I'm trying to evacuate a base early from the allied side, but only have some rather small planes to do it with... does it make a difference if the troops are in Strat, or is it as well to keep them in Combat mode in case they are assaulted before I'm able to get them out ?

Thanks
Chris



Sardaukar -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/9/2010 1:40:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisol

Does Strat mode make any difference to air transport of troops ?

Let's say I'm trying to evacuate a base early from the allied side, but only have some rather small planes to do it with... does it make a difference if the troops are in Strat, or is it as well to keep them in Combat mode in case they are assaulted before I'm able to get them out ?

Thanks
Chris



No difference.



Curty -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/9/2010 3:41:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"The reason why it can only be done on movement between from base to base, and only when the rail/road connection is free of enemy troops, is because no sane commander would
strap his most powerful assets to civilian vehicles when there is even the remote possibility that he suddently has to use them in combat. "

Of course, legend has it that the French did just that at the Battle of the Marne in WWI. The devil, of course, is in the details...



Didn't they requisition every Taxi in Paris to do that, or was that Verdun?



chrisol -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/9/2010 9:49:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
No difference.


Short, direct and answers the question perfectly... in the best tradition of this forum !
Many thanks
Chris



ComradeP -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/10/2010 3:59:13 PM)

quote:

Didn't they requisition every Taxi in Paris to do that, or was that Verdun?


That was Verdun.

The problem with using civilian vehicles was that many were not suitable for military use, which the Germans quickly discovered when they moved Western European cars to the Russian front. Transportation using civilian vehicles works best when you have good roads to drive on, enough men to repair/maintain the vehicles and you're not facing significant enemy interdiction (you don't want to be in a large bus on an open road when enemy aircraft show up). The French moved large parts of the 7th Army into the Netherlands using civilian transport in 1940, but Luftwaffe interdiction caused significant problems and slowed movement down to a crawl after a few days. The withdrawal went more orderly as the Luftwaffe was by that time focussing its strength on supporting the Panzer spearheads.



VSWG -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/10/2010 4:14:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

Didn't they requisition every Taxi in Paris to do that, or was that Verdun?


That was Verdun.

No, it was the Battle of the Marne.



ComradeP -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (10/10/2010 4:53:56 PM)

You're right, my bad, somehow I always tie that to Verdun. The symbolism tied to the taxi's was much greater than their actual effect on the battle.

The work on improving the Verdun road and the volume of military and requisitioned civilian traffic at Verdun was a lot more impressive: more than a million tons of pebbles were shoveled on to a road that was used by an average of 3.500 trucks every day, which sort of steamrolled the pebbles in place. Petain was lucky to have a man on his staff who had been a civilian engineer and who, in this case, turned out to be sort of a genius.



bradfordkay -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 2:03:39 AM)

Yes, this is a very old thread being resurrected.

Is there a limitation on the number of troops that can use Strategic Movement (RD+) in a turn? Or possibly on a particular road between bases?

I have two units being sent to Oak Harbor. Both took the train from southern California to Tacoma and are to take the road into Oak Harbor (yes, I know that in reality it involves a ferry, but not on this map). One arrived in Tacoma a day earlier than the other and is traveling up the road to its destination. The second is now in Tacoma and when I try to give it orders to travel via RD+ made I am getting a "can't reach destination" response from the program. I know that the road heads there as there is already one unit taking that route.

DO I have to wait until it reaches the destination to send the other? Has anyone else run into a similar situation?



btd64 -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 2:19:49 AM)

Image of the unit in question would help. But it is probably a lack of motorized support....GP



bradfordkay -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 2:40:28 AM)

I didn't think that motorized support had anything to do with Strategic Movement (RD+). I thought that was purely based on movement between bases via major road.

I no longer seem to have the program I used to take screenshots, so I can't post a photo. The unit in question is one of the Naval Construction Battalions, so while it does have motorized support it does not have enough to transport the whole unit. The base force that is already traveling up US101 towards Port Townsend and the ferry to Whidbey Island/Oak Harbor (sorry for being pedantic here about the actual route which can't be accurately depicted on the game scale) also has some motorized support but not enough to transport the whole unit. Thus I don't think that is the issue, but I could be wrong.



Yaab -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 4:42:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Yes, this is a very old thread being resurrected.

Is there a limitation on the number of troops that can use Strategic Movement (RD+) in a turn? Or possibly on a particular road between bases?

I have two units being sent to Oak Harbor. Both took the train from southern California to Tacoma and are to take the road into Oak Harbor (yes, I know that in reality it involves a ferry, but not on this map). One arrived in Tacoma a day earlier than the other and is traveling up the road to its destination. The second is now in Tacoma and when I try to give it orders to travel via RD+ made I am getting a "can't reach destination" response from the program. I know that the road heads there as there is already one unit taking that route.

DO I have to wait until it reaches the destination to send the other? Has anyone else run into a similar situation?


The LCU strategic movement on MAJOR roads is based on its nationality (the nationalities should be in the manual somewhere). Check if your second unit is actually in STRAT mode, and is not unpacking to another mode of travel.



bradfordkay -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 5:03:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab


The LCU strategic movement on MAJOR roads is based on its nationality (the nationalities should be in the manual somewhere). Check if your second unit is actually in STRAT mode, and is not unpacking to another mode of travel.




yes, it is in Strategic Movement mode. It used the rail lines to move from Port Hueneme to Tacoma but is stalled in Tacoma. The base force arrived in Oak Harbor last turn and has now been taken out of Strat Move mode. Maybe the CB unit will be able to continue next turn. If not, I'll probably send a transport TF to take it to Oak Harbor. It is still confusing as to why one unit was able to make the trip but not the other.



Alfred -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 5:49:12 AM)

This is not the best thread on the subject of strategic movement.

A far better thread is this one

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3201300&mpage=1&key=strategic&#3203071

which has input from me plus appropriate links to other good threads on the subject.

Strategic railway movement is different from strategic road movement.  They are not interchangeable.  A LCU will not automatically shift from one mode to the other mode when the transportation network changes from railway to road or vice versa.

Alfred



bradfordkay -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 7:00:24 AM)

I wasn't asking them to "automatically shift" modes. My method was to send the unit by rail to Tacoma and once it finished that movement I then gave it orders to move by road to Oak Harbor.

So the reason the CBs can't make the move is that USN & USMC units can't use strategic road movement. OK. Now I understand what went wrong. Thank you.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 2:58:15 PM)

It's a game artifact not discussed much in recent years, but USN and USMC are "nationalities" in the code for many purposes.



Dili -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/17/2018 7:32:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I didn't think that motorized support had anything to do with Strategic Movement (RD+). I thought that was purely based on movement between bases via major road.

I no longer seem to have the program I used to take screenshots, so I can't post a photo. The unit in question is one of the Naval Construction Battalions, so while it does have motorized support it does not have enough to transport the whole unit. The base force that is already traveling up US101 towards Port Townsend and the ferry to Whidbey Island/Oak Harbor (sorry for being pedantic here about the actual route which can't be accurately depicted on the game scale) also has some motorized support but not enough to transport the whole unit. Thus I don't think that is the issue, but I could be wrong.


You can just click print screen and paste the clipboard in any image program, plus if you are in Windows 7 you have the snipping tool as well, it is part of Windows. I guess there will be something equivalent in W10.

About your other question i recall seeing some message of rail load points limitation or some sort of it.



BBfanboy -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/18/2018 4:09:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

It's a game artifact not discussed much in recent years, but USN and USMC are "nationalities" in the code for many purposes.

Yeah, that one throws a lot of players but if you think about the Marines as 'infantry required to assault across a beach", they would not want to have trucks taking up space on their transport. The trucks can come later as part of a base force or motor pool to help move supply and occasionally troops. But I think originally the concept for marines was that they stay near the coast, not head inland for large distances.

OTOH, the US Army may not have had enough trucks when the balloon went up, but they soon decided that using mules and horses was not worth the space required for all the hay and water they needed. Mr. Ford was quite happy to roll out tens of thousands of trucks for them. By the time the new recruits finished training the units designated for deployment would have been well supported by trucks.

And although other nationalities had enough trucks to do major road movements for some units, the programmers had to keep it simple enough to code so they abstracted the availability of road transport.

As for rail transport limitations, they do have limits (unstated AFAIK) for how much can move and how far, with the skinny minor rail lines only carrying something like ¼ the amount that a major line carries.

Use the "R" key to see the road and rail links without the cosmetic art overlay. The "Y" key shows rail only.



HansBolter -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/18/2018 9:09:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

It's a game artifact not discussed much in recent years, but USN and USMC are "nationalities" in the code for many purposes.



This is why it doesn't pay to send USN and USMC units to China.

Unlike US Army units they cannot move around quickly using strategic road movement.

Best to send only American and British Army units to China.



Yaab -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/18/2018 10:59:10 AM)

Well, you can game the whole thing by sending US Army mountain regts (no mot support in TOE) to Ledo, fly them to China from Ledo, and without any mot support whatsoever those units can magically use Strat movement on roads in China. The trucks will come from a hidden Ford assembly plant underneath the KMT HQ in Chungking .



BBfanboy -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/18/2018 8:39:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Well, you can game the whole thing by sending US Army mountain regts (no mot support in TOE) to Ledo, fly them to China from Ledo, and without any mot support whatsoever those units can magically use Strat movement on roads in China. The trucks will come from a hidden Ford assembly plant underneath the KMT HQ in Chungking .

I think they use Genghis Khan's surplus Mongolian ponies (descendants of the originals) as a kind of "hoof pool". [:D]



Yaab -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/19/2018 4:06:40 AM)

- Did you know, you can actually use LCUs in STRAT mode on MAJOR roads in WITP:AE.
- Tell it to the marines!



bradfordkay -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/19/2018 4:57:29 AM)

[:D]



spence -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/20/2018 10:56:51 PM)

quote:

Actually cantona2 is correct. At the start of WWII the British army was the only army in the World that was fully motorised. Not just the BEF, the whole army. To a great extent this was due to the relatively small size of the British army compared to other nations.


quote:

OTOH, the US Army may not have had enough trucks when the balloon went up, but they soon decided that using mules and horses was not worth the space required for all the hay and water they needed.


The British had done a study following World War One. They had found that during that war they had shipped more tons of fodder across the channel to France than they had shipped tons of ammunition. In order to ease the strain on their shipping they motorized their entire army. Since they abandoned their transport on the beach at Dunkirk I imagine they had a temporary shortage. By mid-1941 they were always able to field more troops and supply them better than the German/Italian forces in North Afrika.

The US Army also determined that sending fodder across the Atlantic would use up way too much shipping. Thus the cavalry division that existed in 1941 was disbanded (or possibly just deployed as infantry).

The most important use of trucks was as haulers of supply. Truck transport could keep a spearhead moving up to 300 km from the nearest rail-head. Assuming extra/replacement horses/mules, lots of suitable fodder and enough "horse-friendly" personnel to take care of the horses/mules an advance of 60 km from a rail-head becomes a very notable achievement.



Barb -> RE: What in the world is Strategic OpMode in roads? (11/21/2018 7:23:04 AM)

Basically yes, but there still are places where trucks/jeeps simply cannot go - like Apenine Mountains in Italy or Burmese jungles. There horses/mules/donkeys had value, because not everything could be airdropped (or was not practical to do so). So in the end several thousands of animals were hauling water, rations, ammo, mortars, light guns, radios and batteries and medical supplies up while carrying wounded/dead down the hillsides of the Mountains. Similarly they carried the loads in the jungles of Burma. IIRC some animal transport was also used also on New Guinea and Philippines.



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