Auxillary Repair Ships (Full Version)

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worr -> Auxillary Repair Ships (5/21/2010 7:03:52 PM)

Where do you place yours?

I'm converting from WITP to AE and there you need to keep them in the larger ports...but it appears there is not benefit for leaving them in the larger ports. Repair times are actually higher for using a repair ship in these ports.

Page 242 is where more informatino should be in the manual.




Don Bowen -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/21/2010 7:25:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: worr

Where do you place yours?

I'm converting from WITP to AE and there you need to keep them in the larger ports...but it appears there is not benefit for leaving them in the larger ports. Repair times are actually higher for using a repair ship in these ports.

Page 242 is where more informatino should be in the manual.


Repair ships are more valuable where there are no/limited other repair facilities. In larger ports, do not assign ships to repair ship mode unless you want to manage priorities or assignments. Also to specify ships that will use ARDs for major float damage. Repair ships help port repair if no ships are assigned to repair ship mode.







JWE -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/21/2010 7:41:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: worr
Where do you place yours?

I'm converting from WITP to AE and there you need to keep them in the larger ports...but it appears there is not benefit for leaving them in the larger ports. Repair times are actually higher for using a repair ship in these ports.

Page 242 is where more informatino should be in the manual.

The concept of the game is that auxiliary ships (of whatever type) can populate the smaller bases and give them capability beyond their base numbers. The whole idea is to allow for flexible, 'mobile capability'. Of course, this can be 'gamed', but the basic idea is to organize and emplace a limited number of units so as to develop a capability at out-of-the-way places.




worr -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/21/2010 9:00:31 PM)

Thanks....so send them to the smaller ports unlike WITP. Recomended size of the ports? Say a size four?




John Lansford -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/22/2010 12:14:08 AM)

AR's work best in medium sized ports without shipyards.  I've got one in Darwin, for example, and it is helpful in speeding up general repairs and knocking off small amounts of major damage.  I have others in Suva, Lunga, Townsville and Noumea, providing me with good repair facilities prior to sending ships back to shipyards for major repairs.




worr -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/22/2010 1:28:03 AM)

What ships can you upgrade into a AR ship?




jcjordan -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/22/2010 1:39:38 AM)

None in AE except there's one Dtuch minelayer that upgrades to AR (forget name offhand). I'm not sure on Japanese side as I've not played that in AE. Other than that, you get a fixed amt as reinforcements as Allies.




SuluSea -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/22/2010 3:27:14 AM)

CM Rigel upgrades to an AR .  Right now I have Castor in Perth , Vestal in Tahiti and Medusa sailing to different ports assisting ships in need.




Cribtop -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/22/2010 5:27:21 AM)

Babel and Truk from the JFB perspective, with Kwaj as a secondary option. I suppose Cam Ranh Bay would be ok as well, but HK and Singers provide shipyards in theater near CRB.




jonreb31 -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/22/2010 6:07:10 AM)

You guys say ARs work best in medium ports, but what about smaller ports (2-3)? Will they help at all? At least have the possibility to save dangerously sinking ships? I haven't messed around with them that much.




worr -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/23/2010 7:02:04 PM)

With the other auxillary repair shipts...AD and AS as well as the AKE....do they have to be in port and full of supply?

That is the case with the AKE, I've found.




PMCN -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 10:28:31 AM)

In the manual it says AD and AS work as repair ships for the respective vessels (DD and SS) but I've seen no evidence of such.  I have 3 AS and an AD in Darwin but when repairing a DD or a SS (even one with only 1 pt major damage) they don't appear as an option.  Do they need supplies?  I've seen AG repair the smaller escorts of trivial levels of major damage but not the AS/AD class ships.




Puhis -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 11:09:01 AM)

I think AS and AD ships can't repair major damage. At least in theory they can speep up minor damage repairs.




Puhis -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 11:20:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: worr

What ships can you upgrade into a AR ship?


1/42 or 2/42 two japanese xAPs can be upgraded to AR ships. Japanese player can also convert some large xAKs into AR ships, but there's 210 day delay. So I really don't know if that's useful. I've converted 2 or 3, but I think that's enough.

My ARs are going to Truk, Rabaul, Kwajalein and Babeldaob... I'm also planning to use ARs at some oil centers so that I can repair major engine damage of tankers and escorts.




Sredni -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 11:31:57 AM)

AS Platypus upgrades to an AR in 4/44. Havn't seen any other ships that do though.

I checked CM Rigel and it doesn't show a future AR upgrade, just a generic 6/42 upgrade which gives it slightly higher AA and depth charges. Will the next upgrade, or another after that go to AR?




John Lansford -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 12:06:47 PM)

You need supplies on board the AD and AS in order for them to rearm their respective ship class.  Putting an AR in a small port will allow you to repair ships but it will be slow going since the port isn't supplying a lot of assistance to the AR.




SuluSea -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 12:12:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

AS Platypus upgrades to an AR in 4/44. Havn't seen any other ships that do though.

I checked CM Rigel and it doesn't show a future AR upgrade, just a generic 6/42 upgrade which gives it slightly higher AA and depth charges. Will the next upgrade, or another after that go to AR?

AR option after the June 42 upgrade , unless I'm doing something wrong I believe you have to wait until 12/42 for the upgrade to take place.

[image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/Noopers/Rigel.jpg[/image]




Don Bowen -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 3:33:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely

In the manual it says AD and AS work as repair ships for the respective vessels (DD and SS) but I've seen no evidence of such.  I have 3 AS and an AD in Darwin but when repairing a DD or a SS (even one with only 1 pt major damage) they don't appear as an option.  Do they need supplies?  I've seen AG repair the smaller escorts of trivial levels of major damage but not the AS/AD class ships.



Tenders provide repairs for the appropriate type of ships "automatically" when the ship is under readiness or pierside repairs. They are tenders, not repair ships, and do not "fire" the repair ship option.

Small Craft Tenders can repair major damage on small craft because, well, they are small craft. Larger, more complex ships (like DD and SS) with "major" damage need more facilities then those aboard a tender - a repair ship, shipyard, naval support, or a big port.




PMCN -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 5:19:44 PM)

Don, I just had a look in the manual and the wording is vague. It specifically says that neither AR nor other ships may repair damage to large vessels but doesn't really state what a large vessel is, I was assuming that meant CL or larger. Since both DD and SS would be of the size of small escorts (DE, DMS and DM are just converted destroyers) then it looks a lot like the tenders should render the same aid as an AR. But it is a question of how you read the statement basically. Now that I know what is intended all is well.

I don't know at what point information overload creeps in but some indication a tender or repair ship is assisting would be useful, if only to prevent the question of: is it?

The learning curve for the auxilleries is steep. Heck I sent a AMC to victoria thinking it was an ACM. I sent two AGs up to alaska to keep the YPs in operational order, and getting the Castor to Perth helped repair a DD to full functionality. I also discovered that AVP's don't upgrade unless you unload them.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 6:09:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely

Don, I just had a look in the manual and the wording is vague. It specifically says that neither AR nor other ships may repair damage to large vessels but doesn't really state what a large vessel is, I was assuming that meant CL or larger. Since both DD and SS would be of the size of small escorts (DE, DMS and DM are just converted destroyers) then it looks a lot like the tenders should render the same aid as an AR. But it is a question of how you read the statement basically. Now that I know what is intended all is well.



Not speaking for Don, but Page 245 doesn't say what you say it does above. It says ARs may not repair MAJOR damage to larger vessels. From context with the preceeding sentence about ARDs, I take this to mean they can't repair major FLOATATION damage. They also can't repair major system damage when that damage is ot major weapons systems, like whole turrets. (I think this is true at least.) I believe the manual says elsewhere that ARs can repair up to 5 Major Float damage in some cases.

Don's comment that ASes and ADes don't "fire" the Repair Ship designation is true on the code level, but not really meanigful in the game when talking about subs and destroyers. It doesn't read out "Repair Ship" in the base repair listing for these types when they're beihng tended, but these two asset types are still, in reality, getting "repair ship" services.

I've dealt with lots of ASes in RL, and only taken a tour of one AD, but they're functionally the same type of tender. Their magazines are different, and they carry very different spare parts load-outs, but they have the same types of shops (foundry, optics, electronic repair, hull repair, etc.) In rear areas their magazine capability is secondary to repair, although they do the actual final load-out, with their own cranes, to units alongside. The weapons themselves might be from shipboard magazines, or shore magazines. In a forward base, like Saipan, I'd say the repair and reload functions would be more 50/50 in importance.

What neither can do is drydock anything, so major hull repairs aren't possible. They have divers, and can do limited cofferdamming, for small sea valves and the like, but they can't remove and replace whole hull plates, or do frame work.

I believe ARs in RL have heavier welder (HT--Hull Technicians rating) capabilities, and no auxiliary services like dentists and advanced medical facilities. They have more space devoted to foundries, and lots more to things like bar stock stowage. Their function is to repair damage. An AD and an AS have a different focus. They're shake&bake bases. They tie up, and presto, you have an advanced sub or destroyer base. Food, fuel, weapons, medical, comms, parts, space for a commodore's staff, etc. Different design criteria.




JWE -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 6:36:53 PM)

The wording might be considered vague, but look at the manual, page 245, and you will see at 14.2.3.2 just what all the auxiliaries can do with respect to repair. The last two entries in the table says what constitutes Small Craft and Small Escorts.

Basically, the type-specific tenders can weld a plate over the hole, or slap in a piece of plywood with some epoxy for those listed small/escort types. Other than that, nobody repairs major damage. The whole idea behind tenders and ARs, is to fix things up enough, for anything you consider high-value, so they can limp to the closest shipyard without sinking on the way.

You got a DD or CA with the bow blown off? An auxiliary will help stop the hemorage, but won't build you a new one. First, stabilize with an auxiliary, then go to a reasonably close shipyard. That was pretty much how it was done.




oldman45 -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 9:48:24 PM)

The important thing the fwd deployed tenders will do in game is fix system damage, (less most weapon damage) and that will allow you to get that ship back to a larger port or a dry dock. For the Allies its a god send to have a fwd base that can take the damaged ships.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/25/2010 10:14:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

The important thing the fwd deployed tenders will do in game is fix system damage, (less most weapon damage) and that will allow you to get that ship back to a larger port or a dry dock. For the Allies its a god send to have a fwd base that can take the damaged ships.


And reload DD and sub torpedoes.




Sredni -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/26/2010 1:23:11 AM)

I honestly find the AR I have parked in perth to be the most usefull so far (early war yet granted heh). I hate having xak's and tankers with minor bits of unfixable damage and the AR in perth fixes em right up.

Wish I had enough AR's to put one in port stanley.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/26/2010 3:35:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

I honestly find the AR I have parked in perth to be the most usefull so far (early war yet granted heh). I hate having xak's and tankers with minor bits of unfixable damage and the AR in perth fixes em right up.

Wish I had enough AR's to put one in port stanley.


Perth has a shipyard with enough capacity to fix most merchant ships. You might want to move that AR somewhere without a yard. Maybe Darwin?

Later, you'll use all your auxes as you march forward. MAKE GOOD NOTE of every ship that can convert to AKE or AE, and convert them. You'll guard these guys like gold to reload your BBs on medium islands. When you're in the Marianas it's a long way to Pearl or Sydney if you don't have them.




Sredni -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/26/2010 3:49:24 AM)

Perths shipyard is only 3000 tonnage max alas, and ships with enough endurance to do the perth--capetown run are usually larger then that.

And darwin seems like a ship deathtrap to me. Sooner or later KB is going to sail by and sink anything that's parked there. As soon as Ambon falls darwin starts taking LBA attacks as well. Once I have enough airpower moved to Australia, and enough land AV moved to darwin I might move an AS or two up there and rebase some subs in darwin instead of in brisbane. But that probably won't be till 1943. At this point I've barely touched darwin other then building up to a level 3 fort.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/26/2010 4:00:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

Perths shipyard is only 3000 tonnage max alas, and ships with enough endurance to do the perth--capetown run are usually larger then that.

And darwin seems like a ship deathtrap to me. Sooner or later KB is going to sail by and sink anything that's parked there. As soon as Ambon falls darwin starts taking LBA attacks as well. Once I have enough airpower moved to Australia, and enough land AV moved to darwin I might move an AS or two up there and rebase some subs in darwin instead of in brisbane. But that probably won't be till 1943. At this point I've barely touched darwin other then building up to a level 3 fort.


3000 tonnage limit to fix major floatation damage. IOW, drydock capacity. But the yard can do other stuff too. If you're getting major float damage between Cape Town and Perth, you have bigger problems than the yard size.[:)]

If all you're fixing is system and light engine damage, a yard will suppliment all repair efforts in the port as I understand the routine. Pierside is a good compromise.

Use the symbols in the Repair Ships management screen. An "X" or a "#" and you'll need to move the ship elsewhere to completely fix it (doesn't mean that location can't do everything but the final touch-up to Major Float damage, or major weapons systems though.) If you have a # of days numeral in that column, that base can fix the ship to 100%.

In bases like Darwin with no yards, without a repair ship all you get is ship's force at pierside, and maybe a little base assistance at pierside as well. Slow. Put your ARs early at places where you think you'll be retiring to from critical ops. Darwin is good if you're working around Timor or Port Moresby. (PM is too dangerous to park an AR at early on.) Cairns works too. Some people do Suva. But with Perth you're essentially wasting its talents.




Sredni -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/26/2010 5:48:57 AM)

[:)] I think I recall getting ak's and tankers in perth with 1 engine or 1 float damage which wouldn't repair with either readiness or pierside repair during my first dry run into AE. And being able to fix them once I'd recalled that AR which started out in the DEI (Castor).

This time around I havn't quite gotten to that point yet, all my shipping in that area is stealing fuel from the DEI while it's still safe lol. I'll try repairing the ships in perth again without an AR when the time comes [8D] and see how it works out, I mighta been doin something wrong.

I know most people don't worry about 1 damage here or there, but I'm a little OCD and like to see 0,0,0,0 on all my ships lol.

For now AR-Castor is in soerbaja helping to repair ships there. I've got a small surface fleet conducting hit and runs, and all my DEI subs are based there for now. There's a fair bit of traffic into the soerbaja repair dock for now. I'm going to really miss it once the japanese take java [:(]

I just don't like darwin for conducting any operations early war. It just seems way too vulnerable heh. At the start I'll base out of soerbaja and simply scatter the fleet any time KB sails through, and then reform once it leaves. Once the IJA takes enough land bases in the DEI to make surface fleets floating coffins due to betty coverage I'll pull out completely and ignore darwin since it will also be under threat of LBA from Ambon and Koepang and I won't have any free fighter airgroups in OZ yet at that point to defend it with (the two temporary p-40 groups I'll be using at port moresby most likely).


This is all early war operations of course. Once I start going on the offensive I imagine repairing damaged battleships in the solomons and mariana's will take precedent over minor "annoyance" damage to ships in perth heh.

And yeah, I'm making careful note of which ships are ae, ake, and ar capable later in the war. CM rigel, since it upgrades to an AR, I had originally been using in the DEI making multiple mining runs, but changed and instead dumped the mines somewhere in an escorted convoy and then shipped off back to sydney for safe storage. I've got two AE's converting in sydney right now from xAK's that were scattered in the south pacific at the start (I think they were in NZ at the start?) which I'll use for another small raiding force of ca's, cl's, and dd's I'll use in and around the coral sea so they don't have to run all the way back to sydney to rearm. (the Irenee Du Pont and the Royal T. Frank)

lol, the planning that goes on in this game is great. I have more fun deciding where everything goes then the actual battles.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/26/2010 2:04:16 PM)

Far be it for me to tell anyone how to tightly run their game, but . . .

I'm in March 1945, and I'm STILL crying over tankers I lost in the first 90 days of the war, mostly around Java. Pulling oil and fuel out of the DEI looks like a freebie now, but the AI will bring the hammer on Soerbaja with NO warning some day soon and you'll bleed. Get those guys out of there. It ain't worth it. Trust me.

Save the Dutch navy for another day, and pull them back to Darwin, or farther south. In mid-1942 you'll be glad you did. Save the USS Houston as well if you can. I couldn't. She would have helped a lot when the IJN came calling on Port Moresby.

Far better to have those tankers make the longer, but absolutely safe, run from the East Coast to Cape Town, and then run the fuel into Oz or New Zealand by the southern route. You'll need to worry about a lot of subs near Tasmania and Melbourne, but they're minor compared to having your business hanging in the wind at Soerbaja. Don't say I didn't warn you . . .

Compared to what the AI will do very soon to Java, Darwin is a bank vault.

Early on, yeah, it's OCDish to worry about a point or two of damage. You need to be running the metal hard and keep it moving. Later on you'll get thousands of ships (in 1944 it's not uncommon to get 100+ deliveries in a single day--look ahead at your delivery queues.) Spend your early ships wisely, but don't baby them. Things need to move in the first six months. Get them moving.




oldman45 -> RE: Auxillary Repair Ships (5/26/2010 3:51:49 PM)

In my AI games I don't lose Java. I make my fight there. The troops that are supposed to land in Malaya I send to Java. Some times I can hang on to Palembang but my main focus is Java. From there you can quickly retake the Celebes and by 43 you are fighting in the southern PI. If/when the KB comes its tough but once you start getting some P40 squadrons from the states in there it becomes easier. I will usually bring two of the fleet carriers over and try to pick off the baby KB if it comes. BTW, holding Java, you don't run out of fuel [;)]




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