RE: Price of this game. (Full Version)

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Rasputitsa -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 4:38:00 PM)

I don't see where this discussion is going, the producer decides how much they wish to charge for a product, the customer decides if they want to buy it. End of story.

I paid £84 GBP for WIR in 1986, and I'll pay for WitE when it's issued, because I want more of the same quality of game in the future. [:)]



aciddrinker -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 6:54:30 PM)

same crying was about War In The Pacific: Admirals Edition, as life showed people paying 70$ for game becouse is worth of price.



Capt Cliff -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 7:17:41 PM)

Considering what Matrix's new Bulge game is going for, $90 US, I can see this puppy going for $120 US. If that's so then please tell me now so I don't waste anymore time watching this forum. I won't buy the Bulge game for $90 and I won't buy this game for $120. Remember we are in a recession and these games are a pure luxury.



Zemke -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 8:47:02 PM)

I AGREE, and even a $100 is not that much money for the quality of game we are talking about, particularly when considering we were paying $40 and $50 in the 80s.

What really gets me is when I pay anything over $50 and the game is a dog, like Combat Mission: Shock Force, which in fairness to BFC, they have done their best to fix the issues, but it disappeared from my hard drive about six months after buying it, hoping I would like it.

I trust 2by2 and Gary to do this right.



Berkut -> RE: Price of this game. (6/3/2010 5:50:43 PM)

The thing about software is that almost all of the costs associated with it is upfront and/or fixed. There is almost no marginal costs in selling another piece of software.

It isn't like a car, for example, where the car itself costs the builder money to create, and NOT selling the car is preferable to selling it at a loss.

This makes pricing, at least theoretically, very simple. The total net revenue equals

Price of game x number of buyers. Whatever maximizes that number is the right price. Of course, the more you charge, the fewer will buy.

So arguments about what the game is "worth" is largely meaningless - it won't be priced based on some idea that it is worth X or Y dollars. It will be priced where ever it must be to maximize total revenue. And I think (I certainly hope at least) that Matrix has a good idea where the right spot is - they've sold a lot of games using this mechanism, and are liekly to have pretty solid data about where the sweet spot is...

However - the price of a game is not fixed - it goes down over time, at least in most cases. So part of their decision is the knowledge that the consumer, if they are patient, can "wait out" a high price. It will show up on sale somewhere, eventually. So that factors in as well - a too high price may simply delay purchases until it drops.



Theng -> RE: Price of this game. (6/3/2010 8:25:29 PM)

I paid 430 DM in 1986 for WIR. I worked for 6 weeks, 40h per weeek, as a 16 year old to be able to afford the game. It was worth it.



joeblack1862 -> RE: Price of this game. (6/3/2010 9:49:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut

So arguments about what the game is "worth" is largely meaningless - it won't be priced based on some idea that it is worth X or Y dollars. It will be priced where ever it must be to maximize total revenue.



Totally agree. "Worth" is a personal matter. Each individual will decide whether to buy or not to buy based on there own desires and circumstances.

For me, I have no idea whether I will consider this game is worth the price because it does not yet have one.

I also do not know if it will be a game I want to play; some games I have not purchased simply because I know I do not have the time needed to play them.



wworld7 -> RE: Price of this game. (6/3/2010 10:24:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut

The thing about software is that almost all of the costs associated with it is upfront and/or fixed. There is almost no marginal costs in selling another piece of software.

It isn't like a car, for example, where the car itself costs the builder money to create, and NOT selling the car is preferable to selling it at a loss.

This makes pricing, at least theoretically, very simple. The total net revenue equals

Price of game x number of buyers. Whatever maximizes that number is the right price. Of course, the more you charge, the fewer will buy.

So arguments about what the game is "worth" is largely meaningless - it won't be priced based on some idea that it is worth X or Y dollars. It will be priced where ever it must be to maximize total revenue. And I think (I certainly hope at least) that Matrix has a good idea where the right spot is - they've sold a lot of games using this mechanism, and are liekly to have pretty solid data about where the sweet spot is...

However - the price of a game is not fixed - it goes down over time, at least in most cases. So part of their decision is the knowledge that the consumer, if they are patient, can "wait out" a high price. It will show up on sale somewhere, eventually. So that factors in as well - a too high price may simply delay purchases until it drops.


Most of what you write is valid for the 1st printing of a software package, even though you leave out significant non-fixed costs like advertising, post release software work, storage etc. If a 2nd or 3rd printing is needed these costs are rarely factored in on the 1st run. Also, depending upon how the contract is written profit margins can go way up or way down per unit. There are many variables in the software industry, in the end value is up to each person to decide. For me, I would pay $1,000 for a 100% accurate port to PC of AH's Stalingrad, D-Day, Afrika Korp or 3R, but they will never happen.




wodin -> RE: Price of this game. (6/4/2010 12:44:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

I AGREE, and even a $100 is not that much money for the quality of game we are talking about, particularly when considering we were paying $40 and $50 in the 80s.

What really gets me is when I pay anything over $50 and the game is a dog, like Combat Mission: Shock Force, which in fairness to BFC, they have done their best to fix the issues, but it disappeared from my hard drive about six months after buying it, hoping I would like it.

I trust 2by2 and Gary to do this right.


I stayed well clear of CMSF until a year or so ago when I watched some user made video competition winner. It looked like something I'd enjoy..so I bought it...I was taken by suprise how much I enjoyed it and how well it played (I haven't experienced anything that detracts from the gameplay) considering how poor it was when first released. I then bought the Marine module and recently bought the British module and I have to say it has become a classic game for me. I'm not even keen on the setting but (especially the brit module) it has sucked me in. I've played a few brit scenarios so far and they have ranged from very good to superb...edge of the seat stuff.

To say I'm gobsmacked at how good the game is now is an understatement.

I never thought I'd say this but I'm even looking forward to the NATO module, as the Brit module in particular has totally altered the game and how you have to take on the Syrians.

Roll on CM Normandy aswell.

BTW WitE is another purchase for me but it will have to be an Xmas pressie I think.



pompack -> RE: Price of this game. (6/4/2010 1:01:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke_4

I AGREE, and even a $100 is not that much money for the quality of game we are talking about, particularly when considering we were paying $40 and $50 in the 80s.

What really gets me is when I pay anything over $50 and the game is a dog, like Combat Mission: Shock Force, which in fairness to BFC, they have done their best to fix the issues, but it disappeared from my hard drive about six months after buying it, hoping I would like it.

I trust 2by2 and Gary to do this right.


I stayed well clear of CMSF until a year or so ago when I watched some user made video competition winner. It looked like something I'd enjoy..so I bought it...I was taken by suprise how much I enjoyed it and how well it played (I haven't experienced anything that detracts from the gameplay) considering how poor it was when first released. I then bought the Marine module and recently bought the British module and I have to say it has become a classic game for me. I'm not even keen on the setting but (especially the brit module) it has sucked me in. I've played a few brit scenarios so far and they have ranged from very good to superb...edge of the seat stuff.

To say I'm gobsmacked at how good the game is now is an understatement.

I never thought I'd say this but I'm even looking forward to the NATO module, as the Brit module in particular has totally altered the game and how you have to take on the Syrians.

Roll on CM Normandy aswell.

BTW WitE is another purchase for me but it will have to be an Xmas pressie I think.


Hopefully it will be finished by then [;)]



Rasputitsa -> RE: Price of this game. (6/4/2010 9:15:19 AM)



[/quote]

There are many variables in the software industry, in the end value is up to each person to decide. For me, I would pay $1,000 for a 100% accurate port to PC of AH's Stalingrad, D-Day, Afrika Korp or 3R, but they will never happen.


[/quote]

I have '3R for PC' (direct copy of the board game transfered to PC) up and running on all my computers, including a laptop running Vista, many old games will still play using the DOSbox emulator, or something similar. Most of this is available on free download, so you can hang on to your $1000. [:)]



wworld7 -> RE: Price of this game. (6/4/2010 4:19:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

There are many variables in the software industry, in the end value is up to each person to decide. For me, I would pay $1,000 for a 100% accurate port to PC of AH's Stalingrad, D-Day, Afrika Korp or 3R, but they will never happen.

I have '3R for PC' (direct copy of the board game transfered to PC) up and running on all my computers, including a laptop running Vista, many old games will still play using the DOSbox emulator, or something similar. Most of this is available on free download, so you can hang on to your $1000. [:)]


I was a Beta tester on AH's 3R for the PC and when the code was locked it fell far short of what I desired. It was far from a 100% accurate port. That said, it did get some things right, just not enough for me. With another 12 months of developement time it may have been very good. Alas the budget didn't allow for this, so it was pushed out the door...a little early...and then funding for patch work dried up. A very sad day for people who liked 3RPC. [&:][&:][&:]



british exil -> RE: Price of this game. (6/4/2010 9:45:16 PM)

Was reading a magazine about expensive watches, real expensive ones the Rolex being among the cheaper ones. And I read a quote which made me think about the games Matrix is bringing out.

"It is not enough to expect a man to pay for the best, you must also give him what he pays for." Alfred Dunhill


I think this quotation really brings out what we expect for our "few" cents we have/are willing to spend on WitE and maybe a few others.


Mat



Capt Cliff -> RE: Price of this game. (6/7/2010 7:04:54 PM)

It would be nice if we could get a ballpark figure from Matrix. Like say WitP'ish price or even $80 +/- $10.



billyjj -> RE: Price of this game. (6/8/2010 7:42:33 AM)

You can expect a lot more of these "premium" games to start popping up now that 80 dollars has been accepted as the new price for games. I don't understand why everyone is in support of paying more for games on this forum, I guess maybe I'm not as serious a gamer... I mean people saying they would pay 100 dollars are you freaking serious????? for a video game that should be 40 bucks max?



billyjj -> RE: Price of this game. (6/8/2010 8:00:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Berkut

The thing about software is that almost all of the costs associated with it is upfront and/or fixed. There is almost no marginal costs in selling another piece of software.

It isn't like a car, for example, where the car itself costs the builder money to create, and NOT selling the car is preferable to selling it at a loss.

This makes pricing, at least theoretically, very simple. The total net revenue equals

Price of game x number of buyers. Whatever maximizes that number is the right price. Of course, the more you charge, the fewer will buy.

So arguments about what the game is "worth" is largely meaningless - it won't be priced based on some idea that it is worth X or Y dollars. It will be priced where ever it must be to maximize total revenue. And I think (I certainly hope at least) that Matrix has a good idea where the right spot is - they've sold a lot of games using this mechanism, and are liekly to have pretty solid data about where the sweet spot is...

However - the price of a game is not fixed - it goes down over time, at least in most cases. So part of their decision is the knowledge that the consumer, if they are patient, can "wait out" a high price. It will show up on sale somewhere, eventually. So that factors in as well - a too high price may simply delay purchases until it drops.



This is pretty much true, but I could add that it may not delay the purchases it might just kill the sale all together, because by the time the "sale" comes the excitement has warn off. Release is the best time to sell something because you got peoples excitement level at its highest... They have realized that a lot of people here are willing to pay double and they are majorly hyping these games to build ether, I will be curious in a few months what happens in the BftB thread when the initial excitement has worn off and they realize its just like any other game.



SGHunt -> RE: Price of this game. (6/8/2010 10:32:35 AM)

I don't know about BftB (I returned the original Red Devils game to the shop - I just couldn't get caught up in the excitement, even though I could see the quality of the build, the AI etc).     

But this game does seem to be something really very special.   Fantastic detail and real attention to the history, the strategic constraints etc yet a really simple interface.   Easy to learn, really difficult to master, like chess.

Most of all, from what we see from the two AAR's to date, is that the game play is really exciting.    The options (and outcomes) for operational and tactical decisions seem to be enormous.   Just look at the discussions here.   It does seem to warrant a premium of some kind (though not too much of a premium [;)]), mainly because of the re-playability.  



pvthudson01 -> RE: Price of this game. (6/18/2010 3:36:58 PM)

It wouldnt mind getting it if we could know the documentation wouldnt suck



Neal_MLC -> RE: Price of this game. (6/18/2010 4:28:29 PM)

I have been watching this game for sometime now, reading the AARs, and complaining that its not released yet just like everybody else. The one thing I am not going to complain about is the expected proce of $80-$100.  This is like complaing that the cost of a Mercedez-Benz is too high.  When you buy and MB you expect quality and you get it.  This game will have quality built into it and I expect that, because if it doesn't I won't buy another.  Joel and the gang know this. Not only are they developers, they are businessmen and women who understand the market. They have not arbitrarily assigned a price to this game but through experience and business savvy know what price the market (wargamers) will support. My advice to potential buyers is that if you want a $40 game go somewhere else.  If you want quality then be willing to pay the price and remember... you get what you pay for.


Is this thing in Beta yet??



V22 Osprey -> RE: Price of this game. (6/19/2010 12:00:53 AM)

I have no issue with the price, it looks like a great game it's just like what Neal_MLC said, we can only expect quality in this game....However, I do have to also agree with billyjj.....you guys saying "I would pay a million dollars for WitE" is only letting the devs and matrix know it's ok to jack up the prices. I may have no problem paying $80 for WitE, but that doesn't I WANT to. Plus the price leaves our fellow wargamers who unfortunately do not have $80 bucks lying around to spend on a game are left in cold. I think that selling thousands of copies at $60 is better selling only a few hundred at $80. Plus, the community as whole benefit as we would have way more players and you wouldn't have to wait days to find an opponent.

I had no issues paying $80 for WitP AE but let me tell you I had to pull teeth to get it....



wworld7 -> REALLY? (6/19/2010 2:52:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I had no issues paying $80 for WitP AE but let me tell you I had to pull teeth to get it....


Pulling teeth?

I remember you battling with your parents over the WITP issue. They would not buy WITP from Matrix, but did finally give in and ordered it for you from NWS. To me, that is not like pulling teeth, it is being fortunate to be taken care of.




Neal_MLC -> RE: REALLY? (6/19/2010 7:30:13 AM)

I think Joel et al are smart enough to know that even though a few fans would spend a great deal of money for WitE most won't. As much as I want this game I won't pay $120 for it. $80 yes, $90 maybe, $100 maybe if I get a second job..$120 nope, ain't happening.



MikeS369 -> RE: REALLY? (6/20/2010 8:13:15 PM)

I'm sure Matrix is keeping a close watch on the sales of CO:BFTB and if it meets their expectations I'm sure this game will be priced similarly.



PDiFolco -> RE: REALLY? (6/20/2010 8:36:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeS369

I'm sure Matrix is keeping a close watch on the sales of CO:BFTB and if it meets their expectations I'm sure this game will be priced similarly.

It'd be a shame then, these inflated prices will just suck dry the already small market : no new/young gamers, some old vets will give up ...Really a 50-60$ mark is the maximum reasonable imo.



sabre1 -> RE: REALLY? (6/20/2010 9:02:40 PM)

$120 works if it comes in a 3 ring 8.5 x 11 inch color manual with the possibility of updating the manual with addendums purchased in the future.

Just dreaming guys...



wworld7 -> RE: REALLY? (6/21/2010 5:00:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

$120 works if it comes in a 3 ring 8.5 x 11 inch color manual with the possibility of updating the manual with addendums purchased in the future.

Just dreaming guys...


I like this, can you include a larger type font for us older gents?



Fred98 -> RE: REALLY? (6/23/2010 7:06:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
I like this, can you include a larger type font for us older gents?




With PDf you can make the text any size you want [8D]


-




wworld7 -> RE: REALLY? (6/23/2010 7:45:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98


quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
I like this, can you include a larger type font for us older gents?


With PDf you can make the text any size you want [8D]


Give this person the gold level prize, which is a 2011 BMW convertable

No wait, the judges disqualify the answer for turning a wonderful hard copy, large font, 3 color manual into a PDF (YUCK!!!).

So no car or parting gifts, but come back and play again.[:D][:D][:D][:D]




ratdeath -> RE: REALLY? (6/23/2010 12:04:56 PM)

Hobbies cost $€£.

It's funny that these type of threads is more or less common for all new games and they go from $20 is to much to I am ok to pay $150 for this game.

"We want the games done in half the time of the previous version and with better and greater graphics and to run on five year old hardware with all settings to max and also for half the price of the previous game." -- thats the feeling I get sometimes from some posts.

We pay from $1000 to $3000 for the hardware but if the game goes above $50 it's to expensive? While the computer can be used for many things it's not much fun without a few games to play for hours to come ;)

I wouldn't mind to pay a premium price for some extra content as well, like a really nice manual with historical references, if I look at older games they came with really nice manuals, that had more then just the basic instructions how to play the game.



Karri -> RE: REALLY? (6/23/2010 1:51:43 PM)

It doesn't matter one bit on how much we use on hardware, or how much money I use to get myself drunk during the weekend, these are not the same thing. The only thing that matters is the comparison to other similar products, ie. games. And no matter what you say there, 80euros is a lot(how many dollars that is don't know?). Is it worth it? Probably, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still very expensive.



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