The heavy foot of Erik (Full Version)

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Simulation01 -> The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 12:06:26 AM)

Erik,

You say no politics in the forums. You locked the oil spill thread. Aren't a lot of Matrix games inherently political? I think that a lot of those Civil War games are and lord knows so are those WWII games. your signature contains this statement: "freedom isn't free". What is your opinion on speech and expression?

Respectfully,

Simulation01

P.S. I don't expect this statement will be received well by any that normally post here but, something should be said. Contradictions should be noted.



wodin -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 12:13:07 AM)

political threads can cause flame wars and general conflict....not good for the forum...there was a specific part of the forum for politics\religion etc but it got disbanded because of all the flame wars etc.



Erik Rutins -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 12:15:12 AM)

We tend to look at politics mostly through the lens of current events, where discussions tend to be hottest. Certainly history is full of politics, but being history much of the emotion has passed and the subjects can be discussed without the risk involved in discussing current political events. There are some historical topics that can still produce a flame war though and we do tend to tread carefully on those as well.

The point is to create a place where gamers can share their love of games and gaming rather than discussing issues that may divide us.

I firmly believe in freedom of speech as far as public expression goes. I also believe it's perfectly reasonable for a business to set rules for its own private forum and I think it's common sense that turning our forum into a place for discussion of politics or religion when there are many more suitable places for that on and off the internet would be a pretty bad move on our part.

My signature is actually a reference of respect for fallen veterans who fought to protect our freedom. It was just Memorial Day here in the US and I changed from my normal "Si vis pacem para bellum" signature to this one for the time being in honor of that holiday.

Regards,

- Erik



Simulation01 -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 12:24:20 AM)

quote:

I also believe it's perfectly reasonable for a business to set rules for its own private forum and I think it's common sense that turning our forum into a place for discussion of politics or religion when there are many more suitable places for that on and off the internet would be a pretty bad move on our part.


I see. I appreciate the response. Though I can understand your logic my sense of liberty recoils.


Simulation01



bairdlander2 -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 1:46:49 AM)

Armchair General has a forum where you can openly discuss politics



jomni -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 2:03:02 AM)

To be fair to Matrix, they haven't locked the pricing thread in BftB unlike other forums.



SlickWilhelm -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 3:22:56 AM)

I'm thankful for the rules against political "discussion". I would rather focus on what unites us as wargamers, rather than on what divides us in the always heated political realm. 



Doggie -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 2:52:17 PM)

Rutkins is a tyrant. I've asked Princess Von Martial to have him flogged to no avail. You'll note he list his residence as Vermont, which is practically Canada.
Canadians are brutal savages who bludgeon adorable baby seals with boat hooks and force their women to wear quilted parkas as a badge of submission.

His foot is heavy because Canadians have huge hairy Bigfoot feet, which they use to stomp bunnies and kitties. Don't be fooled. Vermont is a refuge for Canadians.



MajFrankBurns -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 4:19:58 PM)

So if Lincoln ran against Washington who do you think would have won? That's old history Erik so there shouldn't be any problems discussing that right? That's what you said [:D]

quote:

Certainly history is full of politics, but being history much of the emotion has passed and the subjects can be discussed



CV32 -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 4:29:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie
Rutkins is a tyrant. I've asked Princess Von Martial to have him flogged to no avail. You'll note he list his residence as Vermont, which is practically Canada. Canadians are brutal savages who bludgeon adorable baby seals with boat hooks and force their women to wear quilted parkas as a badge of submission. His foot is heavy because Canadians have huge hairy Bigfoot feet, which they use to stomp bunnies and kitties. Don't be fooled. Vermont is a refuge for Canadians.


We do not stomp bunnies. That would bruise the meat. [:'(]



Widell -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 7:35:42 PM)

I'd say Eric and Matrix does a good job of keeping the forums "nice and orderly". Sometimes we need to be reminded this is not an open forum, but the Matrix forum, and that means that Matrix decide the rules, and also are free to decide what is OK to post or not.

As was mentioned, there are many forums out there where politics can be discussed, and Matrix/Erik is very clear that this is not one of them.

Again, moderating is not an easy/pleasant task! Kudos to Erik for doing a very good job and being clear about the rules!



Arnir -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 7:50:33 PM)

I can remember way back when Matrix had political forums.  I for one am glad that they are gone.  The idea that one can't post whatever they want on someone else's board (private property) infringes on liberty is rubbish.



planner 3 -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 7:50:57 PM)

MATRIX Forum, Matrix home, And Mom (Matrix) runs the house.....so that should clear it up.



Josh -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 9:08:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

I'm thankful for the rules against political "discussion". I would rather focus on what unites us as wargamers, rather than on what divides us in the always heated political realm. 


+1

I've seen countless political threads, and usually (as in always) they end up nowhere. Sometimes pages and pages filled with arguments, statements, statistics and what have you, many times they explode in insults and mud throwing. In the end I think it doesn't add value to a wargaming site, while it can be ... "entertaining" to read and follow on other forums, I don't miss it here.



wodin -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 9:14:00 PM)

It's so much better with them gone...though I never ventured in there...



joeblack1862 -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/2/2010 9:38:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

I'm thankful for the rules against political "discussion". I would rather focus on what unites us as wargamers, rather than on what divides us in the always heated political realm. 


Totally agree. I come here because there are few political discussions and I can enjoy the general congenial atmosphere and boy is it refreshing! [&o]

This place reminds me of when I used to just pop in to my dusty old wargame shop and browse the figures and rules, just chill out.

Sometimes I'd even buy something [:D]

That might explain why it went out of business....[:(]

I tend to buy more nowadays. [:)]



Simulation01 -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 12:43:36 AM)

Sunshine Patriots.  You cannot separate politics from people.  They are one and the same.  Denying that is denying yourself.  If you really think that there is private property then you are deluding yourself.  I really shouldn't have said anything...there is nothing that can be done to regain that which we already gave away.  Take for instance the America that existed prior to the Civil War.  We were a completely different nation then, and I'm not talking about slavery.  Power is now firmly rooted in Washington and it will never be wrested away unless there is some kind of national calamity in which all leadership is destroyed.  We are becoming a surveillance/police state.  I recognize that much of this was accelerated by the onset of the war on terror, however we were still headed in that direction.  Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin are much on my mind of late.

I know what you all are saying.  If we do not talk about current, politically charged issues then there will be peace among us, but I say that peace is phony.  A phony peace is no peace at all.  The only productive thing to come out of the not having a political forum is the space it saves on the servers and the positive feelings it lends to Matrix by not having such passion expressed in such a raw manner.  I hope the trade off actually helps Matrix.  I would like to see more quality games and improvements to solid games like Distant Worlds.



Yogi the Great -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 12:47:16 AM)

[sm=00000924.gif]

I'm not really warmonger, I just play one on the computer.




Erik Rutins -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 12:53:46 AM)

Simulation01,

No matter how strongly you feel about these things, this is not the place for it. I'm sure all of us have political views of one kind or another and some are no doubt quite passionate about them, but we don't bring them here. As I said above, there are plenty of other places for that, both on and off the internet.

We do intend to continue making great games and I would like to hear more about your preferences and passions regarding gaming though.

Regards,

- Erik



Chris Bisson -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 12:54:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

[sm=00000924.gif]

I'm not really warmonger, I just play one on the computer.




Ditto bro



wodin -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 1:06:57 AM)

People who know I'm a military history geek\nerd\ obssessive and I play wargames just don't get it. They think I'm a warmonger etc etc. They just can't grasp that there are so many sides to War not just killing...comradeship...humour....love....every emotion you can experience you get to read about in many war books...it seems that in a strange way men are more alive in a war than ever before and thats why many have a hardtime adjusting to life in civvies...

BTW...this is a place for me to discuss wargames nothing else and I like it that way...besides politics....in the UK anyway their all the same...



Simulation01 -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 1:07:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Simulation01,

No matter how strongly you feel about these things, this is not the place for it. I'm sure all of us have political views of one kind or another and some are no doubt quite passionate about them, but we don't bring them here. As I said above, there are plenty of other places for that, both on and off the internet.

We do intend to continue making great games and I would like to hear more about your preferences and passions regarding gaming though.

Regards,

- Erik




Erik,

I yield to your authority, but not on the point. I won't post again on this issue. As for how I feel about your games...I did post a couple of points on: "some thoughts about 1.0.5" and "Wishlist"...I'm not sure which wish list thread I can remember right now. I did not see any response to either point or query. You don't have to...i'm just sayin.

You might find this interesting...I did:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06/lieberman-bill-gives-feds-emergency-powers-to-secure-civilian-net/


Simulation01



Doggie -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 2:32:47 AM)

But someone has to warn the public about the Canadian menace.



Knavery -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 4:28:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

But someone has to warn the public about the Canadian menace.


Reply of the day. This made me laugh.



Panther Paul -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 4:34:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

But someone has to warn the public about the Canadian menace.


I know!

I even hired one, and their so noisy [X(]

I thought it was only Americans who were loud, but now I realise I was misled and they were all secretly Canadian!



06 Maestro -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 4:52:01 AM)

If anyone (especially an American right now) is really interested in politics there are far more important/effective venues to use than an international gaming site. There are also many websites where you can enjoy an ongoing and never ending political argument if that is what you desire.

In the past, far too often, some troll/sock-puppet would post an inflammatory political statement. There was no desire for any discourse, but only to get others riled up. What is to be gained from arguing with people you don't even know about things that cannot be solved here. Seems like a waste of time.

I like the idea of have a website I can visit to relax. It's sort of like a club for gentlemen (and a few auxiliary members [;)]).

If you like politics, go to a local meeting-shouldn't be hard to find. You may actually be able to accomplish something.



ilovestrategy -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 5:22:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

Sunshine Patriots.  You cannot separate politics from people.  They are one and the same.  Denying that is denying yourself.  If you really think that there is private property then you are deluding yourself.  I really shouldn't have said anything...there is nothing that can be done to regain that which we already gave away.  Take for instance the America that existed prior to the Civil War.  We were a completely different nation then, and I'm not talking about slavery.  Power is now firmly rooted in Washington and it will never be wrested away unless there is some kind of national calamity in which all leadership is destroyed.  We are becoming a surveillance/police state.  I recognize that much of this was accelerated by the onset of the war on terror, however we were still headed in that direction.  Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin are much on my mind of late.

I know what you all are saying.  If we do not talk about current, politically charged issues then there will be peace among us, but I say that peace is phony.  A phony peace is no peace at all.  The only productive thing to come out of the not having a political forum is the space it saves on the servers and the positive feelings it lends to Matrix by not having such passion expressed in such a raw manner.  I hope the trade off actually helps Matrix.  I would like to see more quality games and improvements to solid games like Distant Worlds.




Dude. I'm going to say this clearly. This is a wargaming site. War Games. This is not a political forum site. This site is for people that like war games. Not politics.




Yogi the Great -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 1:47:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Dude. I'm going to say this clearly. This is a wargaming site. War Games. This is not a political forum site. This site is for people that like war games. Not politics.



Random thought - Without politics and religion, we wouldn't have many wargames to enjoy. [sm=happy0029.gif]


Actually I ended up leaving one forum only because the flame wars got way out of hand. It wasn't just the politics and religion, although both often found their way into most of the threads, it was also personal attacks. In general I find that the characteristic of "anonymous posting" gives people the courage (make that nerve) to say things they would not do face to face. When we go by other names, don't know each other personally and/or are seperated around the world, we can be as fearsome and obnoxious as we like. Maybe we should consider channelling all that toward new games. Anyone for "The Battle of Matrix" or "War of the Nerds"?



MajFrankBurns -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 2:22:21 PM)

you got that right Yogi there sure are a lot of cowards online.



Jevhaddah -> RE: The heavy foot of Erik (6/3/2010 3:52:36 PM)

quote:

" The great thing about the Internet is that it gives everyone a chance to voice their opinons"

"The worst thing about the Internet is that it gives everyone a chance to voice their opinons"

Chairman Jev


It's just my personal opinion though [;)]

Cheers

Jev



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