Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (Full Version)

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Javaslinger -> Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/4/2010 1:00:34 AM)

Never played Galactic Civilizations but I am a longtime fan and player of Space Empires. Does Distant World compare favorably? Is it better? Any comparisons to Europa Universalis?

Thanks,

Javaslinger



lordxorn -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/4/2010 1:18:04 AM)

Some have compared it to EU in space but in RT, but I don't see that.

DW is unique in the way it tries to simulate running a real galactic empire. Why?
1. The civilian economy is completely AI ran, meaning it maintains it's own fleet and economy.
2. Your job is to protect and provide with expansion providing the right resources.

That is basically it, with all the usual 4x stuff thrown in like diplomacy, research, and intelligence.

So to answer your question DW can be compared to many things, but there has never been a game quite like it.

My own personal comparison, one that I think fits the most, is Starships Unlimited!



2guncohen -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/4/2010 7:29:27 AM)

The game reminds me a litle to star control.



Gertjan -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/4/2010 10:16:33 AM)

I would say the game is different from Galciv. The scale is larger and it entails less micro (although you can do that if you want) than Galciv. The support for this game is as good, if not better, than for Galciv. However, Galciv is still more polished, but DW is approaching with all the updates.



DarthPrincey -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/4/2010 1:22:51 PM)

My 2 all time favourite 4x games are Space Empires IV (SE4) and Master of Orion 2 (MOO2). I own and have played GalCiv 2 and all expansions, yet it have never grabbed me in the same way as Moo2 or SE4.

I think it comes does to Ship Design and Tactical combat for me, both are missing from GalCiv 2 (I'm referring to meaningful ship design, not making things look pretty!). I just love to tweak and improve designs and then actually see the results.

On to Distant Worlds (DW), I have played several long games so far and have really enjoyed them all. Ship design is decent, although retrofitting can become a chore. I am finding that it's now getting a bit to easy with me designing my own ships, last game I used a couple of house rules on my part to stop it getting out of hand. That said the next patch should balance the weapons and techs more which should help the AI a with ship design, also the grouping of components in the design screen will make using it a bit nicer.

DW, although it does not have the depth of the Space Empire games or polish of MOO2, I would say it is a serious challenger for my 3rd favourite 4x game of all time.

Also Javaslinger, I'm sure I remember reading some after action reports from a multiplayer SEV match. They were really cool, checked every day for the next update!! Oh yeah, at present DW has no multiplayer although I’ sure you already new that.



Wenla -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/4/2010 1:32:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Javaslinger

Never played Galactic Civilizations but I am a longtime fan and player of Space Empires. Does Distant World compare favorably? Is it better? Any comparisons to Europa Universalis?

Thanks,

Javaslinger


Played both GalCiv II and Space Empires V (and of course EU III HttT). DW is better than GalCiv and SE.

Comparison to EU III? EU is deeper than DW (not much, but anyhow), both have high learnin curve, but EU has decent manual, both are 'deep strategy' games (I think that some gamers call that as 'Grand Strategy'). You can play with both games long and epic games (I like playing that way). I don't know yet if with DW exists a possibility to put others on their knees with just financial strategy, but that we will see...



thiosk -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/4/2010 9:50:45 PM)

I really think DW has the potential to be MUCH more than it is. Opening up to serious modding will be a huge step. IF the game continues to sell, and makes some money, expansions could really give it a permanent place in the pantheon of great space games.



traker -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/5/2010 6:00:47 AM)

I agree with thiosk.
This game has the makings of being as great as moo2 is thought of now



Geroj -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/5/2010 11:08:59 AM)

GC II
PROS:
nice grafic, own custom ships, buidlings on planets, diplomacy
CONS:
pathetic combat... i mean its most pathetic combat system for space strategy,
you got three types of damage (red, blue, yellow) and three types of armor (red, blue, yellow), no weapon ranges, research tree

SEV
as for strategy its more tacticaly focused than DW... you have also rate of fire, range and damage but in DW combat take place on strategy map in real time instead of new combat map in SEV (SEV is turn based)
Playing SEV is useless withou Balance Mod or any other mods because pure SEV game is unbalanced. Focused research can have major impact on your succes in beating the game because more points of weapon damage, more speed and more range can make huge difference
PROS:
own custom ships, tatctical combat both in space and planets, big research tree with major impact on game, building on planets, units defending planets e.g. weapon platforms shoting ships
CONS:
just three types of resources, without mods its waste of time, guarding warp points (they are only way to get into the system) is limiting AI to be a threat for player

DW
for now i can say that this game has good potential, maybe it not so tatcical as SEV but combat system prevents you to get advantage over AI so it can be threat with equal firepower,
PROS:
own custom ships (for now its best system from all games), various types of resources, economy model, interstelar spead and stelar speed,
CONS:
research tree, isues with game balance, still in progres of development, border system... any unocupied system can be claimed by another empire even if it is on other side of galaxy and completly surrounded by your systems, difference between weapons




taltamir -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/5/2010 1:22:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarthPrincey

My 2 all time favourite 4x games are Space Empires IV (SE4) and Master of Orion 2 (MOO2). I own and have played GalCiv 2 and all expansions, yet it have never grabbed me in the same way as Moo2 or SE4.

I think it comes does to Ship Design and Tactical combat for me, both are missing from GalCiv 2 (I'm referring to meaningful ship design, not making things look pretty!). I just love to tweak and improve designs and then actually see the results.

On to Distant Worlds (DW), I have played several long games so far and have really enjoyed them all. Ship design is decent, although retrofitting can become a chore. I am finding that it's now getting a bit to easy with me designing my own ships, last game I used a couple of house rules on my part to stop it getting out of hand. That said the next patch should balance the weapons and techs more which should help the AI a with ship design, also the grouping of components in the design screen will make using it a bit nicer.

DW, although it does not have the depth of the Space Empire games or polish of MOO2, I would say it is a serious challenger for my 3rd favourite 4x game of all time.

Also Javaslinger, I'm sure I remember reading some after action reports from a multiplayer SEV match. They were really cool, checked every day for the next update!! Oh yeah, at present DW has no multiplayer although I’ sure you already new that.



you might be remembering moo2 via the rose tainted glasses of nostalgia.
Yesterday I fired up dosbox and played some MOO2... it was a fun game but I was amazed at how different it was then I remembered.
The auto-build AI is pretty terrible, the tech tree is tiny, the largest map is a whopping 72 stars and is utterly tiny, tech and weapons are completely unbalanced, the only useful planetary defenses are missile bases (which don't use torpedoes, which are the highest level missiles) and star fortress (ground batteries can't hit because they don't have a targeting computer on the planet)... but star fortress stupidly uses simply the "latest" tech weapons... which means it improves until disruptors, then it becomes utterly useless when you get the next two tech levels which suck...
Oh, although you do get the steller convertor planet defense which is pretty good.
Researching in general is pretty broken and the most important tool in your arsenal...

Anyways, I still love my moo2. but the game is a lot less good and polished then my memories led me to believe.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/5/2010 2:12:54 PM)

I had the opposite view when I got MOO2 from GOG.It was a lot better than I remember and is still number 1 in my view for all round game depth,but SOTS2 and DW with some expansions could change that.



Krelos -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/5/2010 7:09:19 PM)

I would say the game does not yet match up to SE-4 or 5 (I prefer 5 myself..) but I think that after a few more patches, better AI and more modding capability, all of which are on the way, it will. DW is closer to the GalCiv level currently than it is to the SEV level. It isn't bad by any means, just not as good as it will be in a little while.



taltamir -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/5/2010 7:25:39 PM)

SE4 is better than 5... even now 5 is way too incomplete and problematic. SE5 significantly lacks polish compared to previous versions.



Rising-Sun -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/6/2010 9:35:52 PM)

After reading some topics here, i was wondering how the micromanagements will be like. each planets have a zone to build your structures and onward. Didnt look much like 3D in space, all flat in 2D almost like MoO2.

Wish there more infos on this game, but doesnt look like worth playing. beside cant find a demo anyway.



HsojVvad -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/7/2010 1:14:41 AM)

Well if you are going to compare this to GalCivII would this be version 1.0 or final version of GalCivII? We really can't do that because DW is not complete yet, just like when GalCivII came out. I liked GalCivII but havn't played it as much as I do DW. I say I played DW 10X than I did GalCiv II.

This game is like EU or HoI in space. You can pause when ever you want, and you can run the game at different speeds. If you like Moo and EU andor HoI then you should like this game.



taltamir -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/7/2010 3:19:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

After reading some topics here, i was wondering how the micromanagements will be like. each planets have a zone to build your structures and onward. Didnt look much like 3D in space, all flat in 2D almost like MoO2.

Wish there more infos on this game, but doesnt look like worth playing. beside cant find a demo anyway.


In DW Most planets should be structureless... SOME planets get a spaceport, and the most important ones can get a few defensive platforms to go along with it...
In GalCiv2 each planet has "slots"... so an average thermoformed planet has 10 slots so you can build 10 buildings... I really don't like that system as its prone to micromanagement and it is kinda stupid.



AMF -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/7/2010 4:06:19 PM)

IF they open up the game to non-cosmetic modding, then it has amazing potential. As it is, the only modding allowed is not nearly enough to sustain it past a short lifecyle of play, at least for me. But, if moddable, then I could see it being my go-to game for years and years...are you listening Matrix?

:)



Bartje -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/7/2010 4:11:41 PM)

I can assure you they are listening.

One thing the developers of this rough gem have done very well is keeping in touch with the community.

Kudos!



Erik Rutins -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/7/2010 4:14:52 PM)

We're listening. [8D]



Simulation01 -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/7/2010 10:16:47 PM)

DW is like DW.  I have never found a game, except this one, that comes so close to my dream game...though to be sure it is still light years away, DW is the closest I've experienced.  Now, I must confess that World in Flames has my heart beating pretty fast too!  I eagerly await a release date!! 

I should also point out that Erik does indeed listen....and reconnoiter.  He's kinda like the CIA, FBI, and Santa Claus of the forum.  He is both the giver and taker of the light of information.  Woe!, Woe!, Woe! to all who post here!   <----joke   lol [;)]



Rising-Sun -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/8/2010 1:29:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

After reading some topics here, i was wondering how the micromanagements will be like. each planets have a zone to build your structures and onward. Didnt look much like 3D in space, all flat in 2D almost like MoO2.

Wish there more infos on this game, but doesnt look like worth playing. beside cant find a demo anyway.


In DW Most planets should be structureless... SOME planets get a spaceport, and the most important ones can get a few defensive platforms to go along with it...
In GalCiv2 each planet has "slots"... so an average thermoformed planet has 10 slots so you can build 10 buildings... I really don't like that system as its prone to micromanagement and it is kinda stupid.


I agreed with that, take time to change the planet structure and depend on what kinda planet it is as well how adapt the owner can use it. And forgot this is RTS Space game, so micromanagement will be rough heh, guess can build some things but not too complex unless you pause it alot. Esp if you are playing against AI, vs players would be annoying "come on already, let go"! lol.



the1sean -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/10/2010 3:47:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

SE4 is better than 5... even now 5 is way too incomplete and problematic. SE5 significantly lacks polish compared to previous versions.


The classic Wizard of Oz line "if I only had a brain" pops into my mind when I think of SE5. SE4 has better AI than SE5. For me this game is so awesome because Distant Worlds includes some of the very best parts of all of the best 4x's that I have ever played:

Victoria deep economic model

Elite living universe and trade

Paradox (Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, etc) "pausable real-time" that keeps combat fluid and removes the "end turn" button, but keeps the "turnbased" gameplay feel

Space Empires ship design, very cool

Master of Orion gameplay pacing, and combat "feel", space monsters, and events

Galactic Civilizations diplomacy

Civilization in-game encyclopedia, and resource system.

Imperium Galactica 2 map exploration unlocks galactic history, oh yeah, and well fleshed-out pirates [:D]

DW's "automanage or suggestive AI" stands alone as a great achievement in gaming history, because it actually works pretty dang well, and is easily modified to fit player preference.

DW's map is big, the likes of which I have never seen before (maybe like lost empires? never played that one myself)




The only really big features that I wish Distant Worlds included from some other space/strategy titles are:

Master of Orion separate and distinct ship art for every single race. Seriously, this would round out DW nicely. However, with the release of a little more mod support the community will probably fix this on its own.

Galactic Civilization custom race design (personal empire and enemy empire), and game setup options (like no tech brokering, hint hint)

Sword of the Stars style variable tech-tree, so no two games are alike, and not all races have the same tech tree. Also detailed tech salvaging, and Language/Culture techs, very cool stuff.

Imperium Galactica 2 ship and arms market, where any players could sell off old (or new) military equipment to an arms market that any faction could buy from. A really cool feature that I havent seen in any other major games (except for arguably Victoria, kinda). Also, ship selling/purchasing in diplomacy. Proxy wars [:'(]

Hearts of Iron in-depth peace negotiation options, and options to return planets to control of allies if originally held by them. Also a very cool popup customization system.

Space Empires 4 has expansive options for setting up alliances and treaties of all sorts.

Armada 2526 has a really cool wormhole system (even better than the MoO one) that adds a lot to the map. Also, Armada has nearly unlimited max players. I have a powerful PC, I want more aliens to kill! Also, Armada has a really neat victory point system where every race gets VPs for totally different things. The VP system isnt perfect, but it is a very innovative idea.


Well, thats my rant for today. I think that Distant Worlds is a supremely awesome game, and I hope that it continues to garner the attention (and profits) that it deserves. I think that my "missing features" could be implemented in an expansion or two for Distant Worlds, and would really make this game shine. However, kudos to Erik; he has created a game that keeps me up for HOURS beyond when I should be awake, and makes me giddy with all the things that I can do, and the cool and different experiences that I get from each game.

Thanks, Erik, I am having a lot of fun.




Erik Rutins -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/10/2010 4:02:50 AM)

Thanks the1sean,

Much appreciated. For the record though, while Elliot doesn't post as much as I do, he should definitely get the lion's share of the credit for DW.

On a separate note, we've got the 1.0.5 beta in internal testing and I have to say after a few days of kicking the tires it's looking pretty good. Still more things to finish up and test before public beta, but I think you will be pretty happy with it.

Regards,

- Erik



Shark7 -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/10/2010 8:01:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

The only really big features that I wish Distant Worlds included from some other space/strategy titles are:

Master of Orion separate and distinct ship art for every single race. Seriously, this would round out DW nicely. However, with the release of a little more mod support the community will probably fix this on its own.

Galactic Civilization custom race design (personal empire and enemy empire), and game setup options (like no tech brokering, hint hint)


This would be a real nice thing to have. Now with DW editor you can do some adjusting, such as making my empire of slukens a peace loving democracy while the AI slukens are bloodthirsty despots, but it is a bit limited. More options would be a plus here.

quote:



Sword of the Stars style variable tech-tree, so no two games are alike, and not all races have the same tech tree. Also detailed tech salvaging, and Language/Culture techs, very cool stuff.


This would also be a nice to have thing, along with an aforementioned major/minor tech advancement system.

quote:



Imperium Galactica 2 ship and arms market, where any players could sell off old (or new) military equipment to an arms market that any faction could buy from. A really cool feature that I havent seen in any other major games (except for arguably Victoria, kinda). Also, ship selling/purchasing in diplomacy. Proxy wars [:'(]



Probably the single best thing about Imperium Galactica II was the galactic arms trade system. I could always buy a fleet much faster than I could build it, particularly for 'filler' ships such as fighters.

IGII also had a much better diplomacy system than DW. Right now our diplomacy is rather limited to tech trades and buy-offs. If I'm broke I'd like to send the classic 'suck-up' message, such as 'We strive to improve relations with your great empire...' etc.

quote:



Hearts of Iron in-depth peace negotiation options, and options to return planets to control of allies if originally held by them. Also a very cool popup customization system.

Space Empires 4 has expansive options for setting up alliances and treaties of all sorts.

Armada 2526 has a really cool wormhole system (even better than the MoO one) that adds a lot to the map. Also, Armada has nearly unlimited max players. I have a powerful PC, I want more aliens to kill! Also, Armada has a really neat victory point system where every race gets VPs for totally different things. The VP system isnt perfect, but it is a very innovative idea.



Armada is not a bad game. One thing I'd love to take from that one and put into DW is the trade mission diplomacy option and 'building' (though in DW it would be a trade starbase). Not only do you make money trading, but you have a perfect set of eyes and ears right over another empires planets and get to watch as they come and go... [;)]

quote:



Well, thats my rant for today. I think that Distant Worlds is a supremely awesome game, and I hope that it continues to garner the attention (and profits) that it deserves. I think that my "missing features" could be implemented in an expansion or two for Distant Worlds, and would really make this game shine. However, kudos to Erik; he has created a game that keeps me up for HOURS beyond when I should be awake, and makes me giddy with all the things that I can do, and the cool and different experiences that I get from each game.

Thanks, Erik, I am having a lot of fun.




Chopped this down a bit for size issues... Multiple quote threads can get rather long and tedious to read. [:)]





the1sean -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/11/2010 3:36:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Thanks the1sean,

Much appreciated. For the record though, while Elliot doesn't post as much as I do, he should definitely get the lion's share of the credit for DW.


Well then, for the record many thanks and thumbs up to Elliot as well! [&o]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
On a separate note, we've got the 1.0.5 beta in internal testing and I have to say after a few days of kicking the tires it's looking pretty good. Still more things to finish up and test before public beta, but I think you will be pretty happy with it.


Yeah, I am pretty stoked, I just need to get closer to a "finished" point in my current sandbox game, because I know that as soon as the new patch comes out I am going to install it and start a completely new game.



the1sean -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/11/2010 3:46:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
This would be a real nice thing to have. Now with DW editor you can do some adjusting, such as making my empire of slukens a peace loving democracy while the AI slukens are bloodthirsty despots, but it is a bit limited. More options would be a plus here.


See, and the main thing for me is, not to belittle the awesome tool that modders have created, but it is important to have these tools and game setting options available from in-game menus. Why? Because the average user will never visit this forum, download, and then mod their own files. Its hard enough to get them to install simple mods.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Probably the single best thing about Imperium Galactica II was the galactic arms trade system. I could always buy a fleet much faster than I could build it, particularly for 'filler' ships such as fighters.


Glad to hear that someone agrees with me here, it was the coolest feature! Imagine if you could list which empires could purchase your items? Lots of cool possibilities. I also used it to quickly stock up on the more "disposable" assets like fighters and ground combat vehicles.



jam3 -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/11/2010 6:44:06 AM)

I would say one of the biggest differences you'll notice in this game compared to other 4x's is the extremly bare tech tree. All the tech is basically for building ships, there's no tech to improve economy, dipolamcy, espionage, or other things. Probably the single biggest weakness of the game is the tech tree.



WoodMan -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/11/2010 1:14:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Thanks the1sean,

Much appreciated. For the record though, while Elliot doesn't post as much as I do, he should definitely get the lion's share of the credit for DW.

On a separate note, we've got the 1.0.5 beta in internal testing and I have to say after a few days of kicking the tires it's looking pretty good. Still more things to finish up and test before public beta, but I think you will be pretty happy with it.

Regards,

- Erik


You deserve credit for being probably the most helpful and un-invisible community relations guy on a forum though [:D] I mean seriously... for the past two years or so almost every gaming forum I go to ends up with 90% of the posts being complaints about the developer/publishers not giving any patches, support, news or posting AT ALL in the forums.



Jorune2112 -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/11/2010 5:24:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jam3

I would say one of the biggest differences you'll notice in this game compared to other 4x's is the extremly bare tech tree. All the tech is basically for building ships, there's no tech to improve economy, dipolamcy, espionage, or other things. Probably the single biggest weakness of the game is the tech tree.



I was gonna see what the new patch would do before buying the game, but this alone has put the brakes on.

I'm not looking for a 'new' 4x space game, I've still got MOO2 and enjoy it. I am looking for a more 'perfect' 4x space game. I love the living world aspect. What turns me off of the Gal Civ series is how dry it comes off. It lacks personality.

But I want a game where I can pursue peaceful means of winning the game, which would include researching peaceful techs. As far as 'wargames' in space, I've got Sins of a Solar Empire and Sword of the Stars to do that.

So whether its official or modded in, I must admit I'll wait for a more robust tech tree and the ability to build buildings on planets.

And my thoughts on those implementations? I like in MOO where you get to pick 1 of 4 (or is it 5) techs in a group and the rest go away. Now you have to trade to get them. Or like in Sots, where its slightly randomize as to what you get.

I also like how Gal Civ did buildings. You are limited to picking a small handful of buildings for your planet. I like the idea of specialized planets giving you empire bonus'.

Jorune



WoodMan -> RE: Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ? (6/11/2010 5:51:26 PM)

Oh god no please don't bring back the horrible buildings on planets thing from Gal Civ 2[>:]  You spend half your time in Gal Civ 2 in the planet screen doing the same thing over and over and over, especially when your Empire is big, and then there is the AI, which didn't know how to use the buildings properly.  If there is to be some kind of planet upgrading thing going on I would much prefer a system like Soase, but preferably a bit slower, more in the pace of Distant Worlds not the get all upgrades in 5 mins like in Soase, and preferably some kind of limit to do with population so you can't fully upgrade low population planets. 

As for the tech tree thing, to be honest I hadn't even noticed until it came up here, so it's not that big of a loss.  I like the way that DW puts a cap on research speed too so one Empire doesn't get massively in front of the others like in some games (i can remember killing medieval knights with tanks in some games [:D])



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