The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (Full Version)

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Ildabaoth -> The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/6/2010 1:18:23 AM)

I found a japanese CV fleet close to Sydney, composed by the CV Soryu and 3 DD. It had already attacked several Australian cities, so I guessed it was low on bombs, so I sent a surface fleet: BC Repulse, 2 CA, 4 CL and 5 DD. The surface fleet managed to find the CV fleet, so a surface combat started. I was pretty happy with that. The odds were great and my commander was the finest British officer (naval attribute in the 80s). And this was the result: 2 allied DD sunk (one of them sunk by the Soryu herself!), 1 torpedo hit to the BC, 1 torpedo hit to one of the CA and several shell hits to some of the other ships; 1 shell hit to the Soryu (small caliber), 2 shell hits to one of the DD and one DD sunk. They got to be kidding!



ADB123 -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/6/2010 2:14:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ildabaoth

I found a japanese CV fleet close to Sydney, composed by the CV Soryu and 3 DD. It had already attacked several Australian cities, so I guessed it was low on bombs, so I sent a surface fleet: BC Repulse, 2 CA, 4 CL and 5 DD. The surface fleet managed to find the CV fleet, so a surface combat started. I was pretty happy with that. The odds were great and my commander was the finest British officer (naval attribute in the 80s). And this was the result: 2 allied DD sunk (one of them sunk by the Soryu herself!), 1 torpedo hit to the BC, 1 torpedo hit to one of the CA and several shell hits to some of the other ships; 1 shell hit to the Soryu (small caliber), 2 shell hits to one of the DD and one DD sunk. They got to be kidding!


What were the Captains like on your individual ships? I find that poor Captains can Totally Ruin Your Day, while good Captains can make a big difference for the better.



JeffroK -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/6/2010 4:13:50 AM)

Plus the other mob might have had quality leadership.



Disco Duck -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/6/2010 3:48:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ildabaoth

I found a japanese CV fleet close to Sydney, composed by the CV Soryu and 3 DD. It had already attacked several Australian cities, so I guessed it was low on bombs, so I sent a surface fleet: BC Repulse, 2 CA, 4 CL and 5 DD. The surface fleet managed to find the CV fleet, so a surface combat started. I was pretty happy with that. The odds were great and my commander was the finest British officer (naval attribute in the 80s). And this was the result: 2 allied DD sunk (one of them sunk by the Soryu herself!), 1 torpedo hit to the BC, 1 torpedo hit to one of the CA and several shell hits to some of the other ships; 1 shell hit to the Soryu (small caliber), 2 shell hits to one of the DD and one DD sunk. They got to be kidding!


I feel your pain. I am playing an AI game where for some reason the Japanese Fleet doesn't even attack PH. It is there it just doesn't attack. Anyway since I have all of my battleships I send the BB West Virginia and the BB Maryland ( both with 16 inch guns) to interfere with a second landing attempt at Wake. Watching the animation the Maryland doesn't even fire. I lose one CA and the West VIrginia so damaged it sinks two turns later. After the task forces break off my surface group surprises the transports. Now the Maryland fires. I see hit after 16inch hit on the transports. OK I cheat and I fire up the Japanese side to see the real damage. Niether the Ise or Fusa has any major damage. I didn't sink any thing in the initial engagment.

I have noticed alot that in the early war engagements the American surface fleet doesn't seem to fire as much as the Japanese. The battle will be over and the American ships have almost all of their ammo left.[sm=00000613.gif]



Schatten -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/7/2010 12:08:20 PM)

i have noticed that the AI of such Battles dont work (after all if you close the AI workīs at no Place in AE).....if lets say a CL/DD Fleet intercepts a Transportfleet with some DD as escortīs the will 1: fire their Torpīs at max. Range and this results in few Hitīs (not so Problem in close Range night Battles but in a day Battle you see ships that fire their Torpīs at 10k and more Range) and after they fire the Torpīs and Guns what for Target pickīs the Captain...of course he ignores the Transportīs full with Soldiers and wastes all his Ammo und especially Torpīs at the enemyīs destroyers taht nearly invulnerable to torpīs.

this is btw. for both sides the same.

ah and a other one...a big Surface Battle, both sideīs have BBīs ,CAīs CL,s and DDīs......the small CLīs and DDīs fire all their Gunīs at the enemy BB even if they cannot pierce his armor in any way at any range...tīhatīs not a problem for a AI Captain of a CL...except he fires his Gunīs at enemyīs small Ships like DDīs or CLīs he chooses to fire all time agains a Wand of Steel and ignore all the other Tragetīs that he can really hurt with his Gunīs.....



xj900uk -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/7/2010 12:27:07 PM)

In my game against the AI it is Dec 30th 1941, the IJ are invading Balikapan and I have sent a strong Dutch cruiser-DD force north from Sorojeba to intercept. Because of bad weather it manages to dodge the retiring mini-KB (the covering surface TF has already retired north to refuel after a vicious firefight against a US force the previous day headed by Houston and Marblehead) giving support and arrives at Balikapan around midnight, spots the IJN transports as they are still unloading on amphibious assault - 9 x AP's and AK's with a light escort of about 3 x PC's, PB's and DE's...
Guess what? Dutch and IJN forces both spot one antoher, IJN suspends unloading ops and tries to get underway.... Dutch fleet already to go with guns on the triggers and... both sides avoid combat? Huh? [X(]

Dutch force under de Reuter has now scuttled back to Sorojeba withuot firing a single shot. I am thinking of having the admiral shot the moment he steps foot on the dock... Balikapan will probably fall tomorrow...



Sredni -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/8/2010 7:30:55 PM)

I've sent 3 bb's, 2 cl's, and around 20 dd's vs 1 bb, 1 cl, and 3 dd's and lost 1 bb, with another bb crippled, a sunk cl, and a sunk DD. All for minor damage to the enemy BB and a DD.

I've decided japanese ships are simply superior.

It's probably because they use metric. Imperial sucks. All hail the metric guns! [8D]



chesmart -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/8/2010 8:48:18 PM)

Hail !

Never fight the japanese ar night or before 1944 IMO.



Xxzard -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/9/2010 12:36:04 AM)

For a kick, I turned off Dec 7th Surprise and gave orders to the US fleet at PH to sally and attack the KB carriers.

In the night phase, a TF consisting of 4 BB's and destroyers encountered the KB and engaged successfully. Ironically though, the very first shot was from Kaga, an 8 inch shell that hit BB Maryland. The carrier was sunk in the battle, but how about that for a belligerent ship!



mgoldstein -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/9/2010 3:12:37 AM)

Dumb luck plays a big factor in any battle, but I've enjoyed a great deal of success with my surface ships. Early in the war, I found them to be the Allies best weapon. You just have to pick your fights carefully. As the Japanese expand, the AI will send out amphibious warfare task forces with no air cover and few escorts (usually just a handful of sub chasers and gunboats.) So, I used my surface ships extensively as commerce raiders. Sometimes the Japanese merchant ships would get away, sometimes one of my ships would get badly damaged or sunk, but more often than not the Allied force would sink the entire Japanese task force. The real upside of this strategy was that my ship crews gained invaluable experience, especially in night fighting. Then, later on, when my Allied ships faced off against real warships, they fought on more even terms.

Posted this one before, the spectacular Battle of Port Moresby:
The Japanese AI sent a TF to bombard Port Moresby. I had a TF stationed off Moresby to defend the base. In the night battle, radar and bad weather made the difference: The Allied TF detected the Japanese group with their radar beyond visual range and opened fire on surprised Japanese ships!

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Shell hits 13, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
CL Kuma, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
DD Arare, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Wakaba
DD Asagiri, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Tsuga, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Karii, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Yanagi, Shell hits 1
TB Chidori, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB Revenge, Shell hits 5
BB Royal Sovereign, Shell hits 23, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Pensacola, Shell hits 3
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 1
CL Leander, Shell hits 2
CL Achilles
CL Emerald
DD Bulmer, Shell hits 1
DD Whipple, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Encounter
DD Express, Shell hits 1
PG Charleston, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD La Triomphant

The surviving Japanese ships were destroyed the following day by aircraft and a mop-up surface battle.



Sredni -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/9/2010 3:44:16 AM)

TBH most of my task forces have done more damage to themselves then I've taken from the enemy. Up until the 3v1 BB fight where I got my ass handed to me I had managed to avoid anything worse then single CA+escort groups, but in half of the engagements where I was shooting up some lightly defended transport force I've had collisions between my own ships.

Ship collisions happen a lot in my game lol. DD vs CL or CL vs CL and both ships spend the next month in dock. About ready to start hanging captains who don't know how to drive.



Ildabaoth -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/9/2010 6:09:32 AM)

I've seen a lot of people suggest to avoid night battles as allied at the beginning of the war. But I'm afraid I don't know how to do that. How do you control when your surface fleet will engage?



LoBaron -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/9/2010 6:51:45 AM)

Its possible to avoid night battles.

You have to position your surface combatants carefully, out of range of enemy forces that could reach you at night (hard task on 2 day turns btw. [;)]),
and avoid settings "retirement allowed" or "mission speed" in areas with enemy TFīs.

One time or the other this will fail though.

In fact I like the kinda high randomizer and huge ammount of dicerolls in naval engagements. It simulates the major impact of tactical decisions on surface
battle outcomes, which has to be abstracted in WITP.



Schatten -> RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet (6/9/2010 11:14:19 AM)

avoiding of night battles at begin as ally comes from the superior torpedos i think.

the allied torpīs dont work (except british or dutch) and a night battle start very often at close range, 2k or 4k so the Long Lances can very often sunk much ships even if the allied ships shoot first.

at day you start at bigger ranges so most torpedos goes wasted usless as long range v. destroyers and other small ships and Allied Gunfire is overall superior to Jap Gunfire from my experience.

after ī43 you can go into night battles as allied player too without any big disadvantage.

and after all...a loss as allied is nothing, you can replace everything...Japan cannot replace anything except AKīs



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