BTR reaction times (Full Version)

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Rob Brennan UK -> BTR reaction times (6/7/2010 7:39:40 PM)

Quick question about german and axis-allied reaction times for the balkans/romania/hungary etc.

They seem stuck at 60+ (once had hungary down to 56 mins) for daylight raids on both ploesti and elsewhere .. oddly nearby german units in group 1 were on the normal 4-8 delays. most radars in yugoslavia are fine . Is it down to too few radars in sud ost ? or do i need to preempt raids and launch really really early and hope ?

Same went when i moved some decent NJ to greece and they utterly failed vs allied NB of athens (was 88C's and 219A2's ) . Reaction time so high as to be useless.

PS .. the darn AI is launching raids into areas so deep from italy its quite amazing to remembering what the original was like , kudos on that.


another thought popped into my head too.

Intercepting allied escorts with anything bar D9's seems futile even if the bombers move at 180 the fighter escorts seem uncatchable and just pounce my interceptors when i run out of fuel.

apologies for pestering again.








Hard Sarge -> RE: BTR reaction times (6/7/2010 8:10:38 PM)

check your "set Doc" settings

by default, they are set to make sure something is coming your way before getting your planes up

(Italy, can be a royal pain, by the time you see something, they are already on top of you)

Sud Ost, could be set a lot father out, but you get tired waiting, so...


[image]local://upfiles/1438/878F8CDF41144F258BA63E1BBEF4E84F.jpg[/image]



Nicholas Bell -> RE: BTR reaction times (6/7/2010 10:05:31 PM)


quote:

Intercepting allied escorts with anything bar D9's seems futile even if the bombers move at 180 the fighter escorts seem uncatchable and just pounce my interceptors when i run out of fuel.


Use patrols. Set a patrol point ahead of the predicted bomber route and push the altitude up to 35 K. I usually do this inside the border of Germany - but you have to using my map mod to know where it is. I have a feel after so many months of playing how fast the raid is going to move and I start sending the fighters which are farthest away first (120-150 miles depending on their location to the bomber raid). After these launch, I set a new patrol point on top of the existing with max altitude again, and launch the next set of interceptors (50-120 miles). I continue this process once or twice. When the raid gets close to the patrol point (which should have hundreds of German fighters) you start using the intercept function. I attempt to set the interceptors in waves (since some will still be enroute to patrol point) so that I get a good number of units attacking at the same time. I usually use a 15 mile max range.

Given the high patrol altitude (although some plane types will only be at their ceiling) and close proximity to the raid (interceptors will dive to the estimated height of the raid at an angle) allows me to attain many bounces on the Allied escorts. Unfortunately, there are so many escorts that all the LW ends up downing is fighters. But long term this will decrease Allied fighter units as the training levels of pilots is now only in the 50s average.

On 15 Feb 44 the Allies launched a double raid to engine factories near Kassel. Each raid about 300 bombers with 633 fighters escorting per raid (1200+ escorts) plus 144 fighters on sweeps to help protect damaged bombers which fell behind. Using the technique I described, the LW shot down 78 escorts using 190 A-5,6 and 8s, and Bf-109G-6 and G-5AS only. Only 14 Bi-17s were lost - most to flak. LW losses were 117. I am waiting for the D-9s!!!

Of course this technique only works if you can predict the proper point to set the patrol. If you don't you have to manually reset the patrols. Some units will not be able to intercept. This is realistic - the LW thought it a good day when 60% of sorties actually engaged.



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: BTR reaction times (6/8/2010 1:39:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

check your "set Doc" settings

by default, they are set to make sure something is coming your way before getting your planes up

(Italy, can be a royal pain, by the time you see something, they are already on top of you)

Sud Ost, could be set a lot father out, but you get tired waiting, so...


[image]local://upfiles/1438/878F8CDF41144F258BA63E1BBEF4E84F.jpg[/image]



Thanks HS .. I actally set it to over 200 miles for 1 min alert radius and nothing changed (or so it seemed) .. I'll come back with screen shots when i get the chance.

Nicholas Bell

I amusing your map mod btw (very nice too thx). I was doing a this in a way but then ordering intercepts when the raid was only minutes away .. and trying to get each escort 1-1 with interceptors before i sent in the 2E bomber killers (with rockets) .. I've since modified this a bit by pulling back the 2E units so that damaged planes retreat ahead of the main bomber formations else they get chewed up by escorts as they head home.

I'll be braver and let the patrols find thier own targets . I have had success vs the P47's but the P51's i am beginning to really really hate with a passion [;)]

thank you both for taking the time to reply. [&o]



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: BTR reaction times (6/8/2010 2:02:59 AM)

Heres the positon of Luftflotte 4 ..

[image]local://upfiles/7467/8E65FA0878D6409DA23087C2386E955C.jpg[/image]



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: BTR reaction times (6/8/2010 2:05:43 AM)

Note seregeleys AF , SW of budapest , still has reaction times of 63 minutes. the allies can even overfly hungary and it remains at best 50 mins. there are daylight fighters afaik. similar things happen to LF Ost.

[image]local://upfiles/7467/3CCD9EC46EE448B698133BAB258EA84C.jpg[/image]



Brutus -> RE: BTR reaction times (6/8/2010 5:19:33 PM)

This seems to be a bug that was already in the original BTR. Exactly the same problem in the same area. Changing the doctrine settings will not solve it.



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: BTR reaction times (6/9/2010 12:29:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brutus

This seems to be a bug that was already in the original BTR. Exactly the same problem in the same area. Changing the doctrine settings will not solve it.


Well i'm glad its not just me .. but sorry that you have the same issues .. as i recall the original was like that too .. sooooo long ago .. must be at least 2000 bottles of wine in the past [;)]



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: BTR reaction times (6/10/2010 2:03:55 AM)

Now this is just odd . or WAD .. 14/1/44 noticed an allied raid heading to romania , almost didnt bother trying to intercept given the proir problems BUT .. all the bulgarian and romanian units (and german ones there ) were at 4-8 mins reaction ! HOORAH ..

So oddity or normal ? who can tell eh ?



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