PBEM problems (Full Version)

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Paul Vebber -> PBEM problems (12/1/2000 4:18:00 AM)

IF you have played a pbem game and had VCR playback problems please post specifics of your problem and system config (especially vid card, free HD space and RAM) This will help us figure out exactly what the problem is here.



Kharan -> (12/1/2000 4:35:00 AM)

It was investigated pretty thoroughly on the earlier VCR thread started by Fuerte. Anyone can reproduce the problem (VCR fill up) in unsecure and secure PBEM and hotseat modes by following the instructions there. It is not system specific. The problem is: - VCR maximum size should be 20MB. In reality it is always 2.28MB which usually gets filled way before the end of the turn. - VCR gets filled with unnecessary information just by moving and scrolling the map. Solving either one solves the problem (solving the first one is of course 50 times more secure). But seeing that the latter has probably been tried to solve a few times already, I humbly (!) suggest that before you release the next version, test how big the VCR file can get! [This message has been edited by Kharan (edited November 30, 2000).]



Fuerte -> (12/1/2000 4:47:00 AM)

I'm very surprised that you Paul are still wondering if there is a bug or not. Could it be that these play testers are having a debug version of SPWAW, different than the normal distribution? I have not played a single PBEM game after 2.3 which doesn't have the replay bug. My latest game with Pack Rat has it. Of course I have not played much PBEM after 2.3, only three games so far, just because the replay doesn't work. I'm surprised if anyone can post here and say that he has not had the problem. Vid card: Asus GeForce Free HD: 5 GB RAM: 256 MB Puhleeze fix this problem... [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] We (Kharan and me and a lot of others) are very willing to help in the testing. And the problem... 2.3 had the 2.3 MB maximum and it was enough. In 4.0 and later the replay gets filled with unneccessary data. Tom once said that in his version that does not happen. I just can't believe it [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] unless he has a different version than the rest of us. The Blenheim Blunder scenario seems to be a good testing ground. Just move some troops, and see if the .rec file grows.



Paul Vebber -> (12/1/2000 4:51:00 AM)

Its not me that has to be convinced. Being convinced also does not equal knowing how to fix it. It apparantly is not as reproducible as it appears - at least that is what appears to be the case...it may indeed be a SANAFU of executables... We are trying to sort the problem oput...please don't shoot the messenger [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited November 30, 2000).]



Kharan -> (12/1/2000 4:59:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: It apparantly is not as reproducible as it appears
All right. Anyone who can not reproduce the problem with 4.4 release version, do the following. Select hotseat, Blenheim scenario. Quit both German and British first turns, just to be sure. On second German turn move all units their max radius (easiest done by "a" and "g" keys), fire a few units at a hex and save before the turn ends. Alt-tab out of SPWAW and check the appropriate .rec file size in save-directory. I will be very surprised if it ever will be anything but 2.28MB. Meaning that the VCR is full, anything you do after that will not be recorded. [This message has been edited by Kharan (edited November 30, 2000).]



Fuerte -> (12/1/2000 5:01:00 AM)

Of course not, you Paul and the rest of Matrix are the good guys, without a question. But it is just so frustrating to wait, without being able to do anything. And I just remembered how fun it is to play SPWAW even if Pack Rat is running over me... I destroyed one of his King Tigers, but I don't know what happened because of the replay bug. I guess that my infantry did it, with Piat or close assault.



Paul Vebber -> (12/1/2000 5:13:00 AM)

Kharan - does the same thing happen if you choose PBEM mode instead of Hotseat mode?



Kharan -> (12/1/2000 5:20:00 AM)

Yes - secure and unsecure. [This message has been edited by Kharan (edited November 30, 2000).]



Kharan -> (12/1/2000 5:46:00 AM)

Has Tom gotten VCR to go to 20MB since he last spake? I agree with Fuerte and with probably you yourselves when you made the decision to increase it that it isn't an elegant solution, but at least it will work. About testing... Yes, send me an executable and I'll tell you in 5 minutes if the problem has been solved [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img].



Pack Rat -> (12/1/2000 5:51:00 AM)

My system is : 128 RAM VooDoo 4500 (32ram) 2.5 gig free hard drive space 350mhz AMD Windows ME Some games I get no replay right from the start and incomplete replay is the rule. The game with Fuerte is a small map and sometimes I get most of the replay. I very very seldom ever see arty or aircraft. I can wait for any upcoming fixes, changes, addons, but please please, fix the VCR. P.S. Fuerte, you nailed my KT with a Piat. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img] Damn mistake a newbie wouldn't make. Hardly fair to say I'm creaming you when you didn't even call in reinforcements and I did. You've done well. Why don't you believe me? ------------------ "More PT Drill Sargent" Pack Rat



Joe Osborne -> (12/1/2000 6:11:00 AM)

Is the solution to this problem setting the VCR replay max file size to 20 MB? If so, what level of difficulty would this be to patch? Maybe we can hope Tom Proudfoot or Mike Woods answers here.... Also, while we're on the subject...other than controllable setup issues...are there any other "deal killers" in terms of PBEM bugs in SPWAW? I must admit I'm a bit surprised by this response as Combat Command is running great guns with 500+ players and over 200 games filed, and I haven't heard a peep out of anyone from the competitive side reagrding PBEM bug issues. One can only guess that if the VCR issue is resolved God knows how many players could be at Combat Command (yikes!!!) [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Regards, Joe Osborne Director Matrix Games Network



Kharan -> (12/1/2000 6:16:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Osborne: Is the solution to this problem setting the VCR replay max file size to 20 MB? If so, what level of difficulty would this be to patch? Maybe we can hope Tom Proudfoot or Mike Woods answers here....
This is Tom's answer on the earlier thread:
quote:

Yes, it's supposed to go to 20 megs now, but there is apparently something wrong somewhere. Probably one of the numbers didn't get changed (the code is pretty, um... interesting). Tom
[This message has been edited by Kharan (edited November 30, 2000).]



Joe Osborne -> (12/1/2000 6:28:00 AM)

Thanks Karan.... Whoa! Wait a minute...just had a thought....how does changing the .rec file size to 20 meg solve the PBEM problem...you have to email that file with the rest of your game files! That doesn't seem to be an option! Yeah, the vcr would work, but you'll never be able to email 20 meg files! Regards, Joe Osborne



Kharan -> (12/1/2000 6:30:00 AM)

That's true, but the 20 meg is only the maximum size. On normal battles VCR will probably be staying below 5 megs. And the .rec file zips up quite nicely, so even that 20 meg would compress to half a meg or so. [This message has been edited by Kharan (edited November 30, 2000).]



ncpanther -> (12/1/2000 8:59:00 AM)

quote:

Also, while we're on the subject...other than controllable setup issues...are there any other "deal killers" in terms of PBEM bugs in SPWAW? I must admit I'm a bit surprised by this response as Combat Command is running great guns with 500+ players and over 200 games filed, and I haven't heard a peep out of anyone from the competitive side reagrding PBEM bug issues. One can only guess that if the VCR issue is resolved God knows how many players could be at Combat Command (yikes!!!) [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Regards, Joe Osborne Director Matrix Games Network[/B]
Joe, most of us have decided/learned to play without the replay. HOWEVER, it would be nice in those bigger battles. In a rather large fight with Pack Rat,I would like to know what happened. espically when I lose hidden units and dont know why, only to find later a HORDE!!! of Tigers on me. On the other hand in smaller battles like my game with Warhorse I dont even use it. Not that big a battle and Really not worth the time trying to watch it when it dont work. I too seldom if ever see any AC or Arty. I dont even see my own paradrops. Have they landed yet Packrat???? ------------------ NC Airborne Sappers Lead the way!! SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!



Mike Rothery -> (12/1/2000 9:17:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Osborne: I must admit I'm a bit surprised by this response as Combat Command is running great guns with 500+ players and over 200 games filed, and I haven't heard a peep out of anyone from the competitive side reagrding PBEM bug issues.
I sent out some challneges the other day to find some PBEM opponents, and the guys declined saying they NEVER do PBEM anymore because of the incomplete VCR playback.



Joe Osborne -> (12/1/2000 9:45:00 AM)

Mike, Thanks for the input. I haven't been hearing this. This just underscores the need to fix the VCR replay system somehow because many of us in Combat Command don't have the time to play TCP/IP and rely on PBEM. Joe Osborne
quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rothery: I sent out some challneges the other day to find some PBEM opponents, and the guys declined saying they NEVER do PBEM anymore because of the incomplete VCR playback.



Joe Osborne -> (12/1/2000 9:49:00 AM)

NCpanther, I totally agree with you on this. In fact, I've experienced a situation where I "lost" 3 squads from a game with a friend where, I believe, they were destroyed on the previous turn but no one in LOS survived to let it be seen by VCR. I'd really like this to be fixed. Joe Osborne
quote:

Originally posted by ncpanther: Joe, most of us have decided/learned to play without the replay. HOWEVER, it would be nice in those bigger battles. In a rather large fight with Pack Rat,I would like to know what happened. espically when I lose hidden units and dont know why, only to find later a HORDE!!! of Tigers on me. On the other hand in smaller battles like my game with Warhorse I dont even use it. Not that big a battle and Really not worth the time trying to watch it when it dont work. I too seldom if ever see any AC or Arty. I dont even see my own paradrops. Have they landed yet Packrat????



Pack Rat -> (12/1/2000 10:07:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by ncpanther: I dont even see my own paradrops. Have they landed yet Packrat????
Well , ya they landed, sorry to say I'm mopping them up at the moment. For another example I'm playing Alby and have lost a large batch of KT's and I haven't a clue to what. I asssume aircraft, but are there tanks on the hills just popping up? Counterbattery fire is a mute issue as well, no idea if it's taking place. I'd be happy to email any battles that have no VCR, and supply a password if that would help. ------------------ "More PT Drill Sargent" Pack Rat



Alby -> (12/1/2000 10:41:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Pack Rat: Well , ya they landed, sorry to say I'm mopping them up at the moment. For another example I'm playing Alby and have lost a large batch of KT's and I haven't a clue to what. I asssume aircraft, but are there tanks on the hills just popping up? Counterbattery fire is a mute issue as well, no idea if it's taking place. I'd be happy to email any battles that have no VCR, and supply a password if that would help.
Wasnt aircraft, if you mean the kings in north, was side shots by fireflys.(dont worry you've gotten even!!):-( This not knowing what happened is very new to me (first email game) Played online sp3 for years [This message has been edited by Alby (edited November 30, 2000).]



Redleg -> (12/1/2000 10:41:00 AM)

I have completed more than 25 pbem battles of all sizes. Not one time have my opponents or I ever seen a replay beyond the first 2-3 exchanges of fire. Some of us are doing the brief description bit like we used to with SP1. Some of us just don't bother. I think the most important point to note is that the replay file is the same size every turn after the battle gets started and never changes..... If the 95+% compression rate holds up, increasing the size of the VCR file should help - at least in small battles.



Alby -> (12/1/2000 10:43:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: IF you have played a pbem game and had VCR playback problems please post specifics of your problem and system config (especially vid card, free HD space and RAM) This will help us figure out exactly what the problem is here.
My experience tho limited is I get one units replay, I mean I see an exchange between 2 tanks maybe then thats it.



Alby -> (12/1/2000 10:46:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Fuerte: Of course not, you Paul and the rest of Matrix are the good guys, without a question. But it is just so frustrating to wait, without being able to do anything. And I just remembered how fun it is to play SPWAW even if Pack Rat is running over me... I destroyed one of his King Tigers, but I don't know what happened because of the replay bug. I guess that my infantry did it, with Piat or close assault.
I feel your Pain, I too am feeling the wrath of king tigers ON open ground from PackRat, NEW RULE...allies get trees on all maps :-) lol [This message has been edited by Alby (edited November 30, 2000).]



Reg -> (12/1/2000 2:39:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Osborne: I must admit I'm a bit surprised by this response as Combat Command is running great guns with 500+ players and over 200 games filed, and I haven't heard a peep out of anyone from the competitive side reagrding PBEM bug issues. One can only guess that if the VCR issue is resolved God knows how many players could be at Combat Command (yikes!!!) [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Regards, Joe Osborne Director Matrix Games Network
I think the reason for this is that everyone is aware of the problem, the problem is aired regularly in this forum (no need to bother the CC administrators) and lastly (and most importantly), they are willing to accept these shortcomings to share in the magic that is SPWaW!! However, I find the bug takes the shine off what could have been a much more enjoyable experience. Shows the dedication and loyalty of the legions out there who wait patiently with baited breath for a fix to emerge. Reg.



Reg -> (12/1/2000 2:52:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Osborne: Thanks Karan.... Whoa! Wait a minute...just had a thought....how does changing the .rec file size to 20 meg solve the PBEM problem...you have to email that file with the rest of your game files! That doesn't seem to be an option! Yeah, the vcr would work, but you'll never be able to email 20 meg files! Regards, Joe Osborne
Something that has always perplexed me is why the VCR files have to be so big. The information that a certain unit moved to a certain hex should be able to be recorded in a few bytes, not megabytes. I am not interested where my opponent scrolled and viewed the map, only where things happened (and the screen should jump to that location automatically). I know this is a serious coding issue and any changes will be constrained by the existing program structure but I cannot see how massive .rec files are going to fix it. Is the VCR exactly that, a animated screen capture?? Perhaps one of the programmers could comment. Reg.



Kharan -> (12/1/2000 9:14:00 PM)

Anyone interested on how the VCR works and what fills it up specifically, please read the earlier thread.



Casualty -> (12/2/2000 1:40:00 AM)

VCR stops prematurely. 850K7,K7V,V3K3,256Mb,1.1G(system drive),22G(game)



Tom Proudfoot -> (12/2/2000 2:02:00 AM)

I will fix the VCR thing over the weekend. I have been very busy with the "real" projects, but I will squeeze this in on Sunday. Sorry about the delay. Tom



Pack Rat -> (12/2/2000 2:11:00 AM)

Bless you sir. ------------------ "More PT Drill Sargent" Pack Rat



Scipio Africanus -> (12/2/2000 5:33:00 AM)

That'd be great- I have not played the game in months due to a lack of VCR- If it helps- I run PII 350, 128RAM, Voodoo 3 3000, plenty o' drive space... Cheers, ------------------ Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus



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