Grants & 60mm Mortors (Full Version)

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BlitzSS -> Grants & 60mm Mortors (12/1/2000 4:51:00 AM)

I’m been working on some N. Africa scens maybe even eventually a Campaign. In doing such I’ve run across many things. Someone has already mentioned that the Grant tanks 75mm acts as if it is in a top turret(360 rather then a 120 degree traverse). I’ve also noticed that this same gun out ranges the 37mm (range of 30 hexes) by 5 hexes. I can try to research this again, or try to find my old tables from when I made PZ Leader counters with Grant/Lee tanks. What I found went against what my instincts told me, and that is that the 37mm (in the Grant/Lee tank only, and not the Sherman’s 75) out ranged the 75mm. This was mostly, if not entirely, due to the optics, because the fact that the 75mm gun was hurriedly fitted into this framework to race this badly needed retrofit out to N. Africa (Imagine only having Crusaders, ahh!). I’m also looking at a quirk with the Grants usage of 75mm ammo. Hopefully I can play test some more in the next few nights and that will jar my memory to some of the other quirks I’ve stumbled upon.



BlitzSS -> (12/1/2000 5:19:00 AM)

Reading MG34 breakdown just reminded me of one of things that I noticed at lot of other gamers are doing too: Turning off ‘Weapons break down’. I like the concept and in fact leave vehicle breakdown on, but weapons break down seems to be too harsh.



Colonel Klink -> (12/2/2000 4:57:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by BlitzSS: I’ve also noticed that this same gun out ranges the 37mm (range of 30 hexes) by 5 hexes. I can try to research this again, or try to find my old tables from when I made PZ Leader counters with Grant/Lee tanks. What I found went against what my instincts told me, and that is that the 37mm (in the Grant/Lee tank only, and not the Sherman’s 75) out ranged the 75mm. This was mostly, if not entirely, due to the optics, because the fact that the 75mm gun was hurriedly fitted into this framework to race this badly needed retrofit out to N. Africa
hey blitz, just a confirmation that you aren't going nuts. i pulled out my old AH tobruk game and checked the ranges for the grant tank. (Desert has always been my fav theatre and not coincidently the grant and pzIIIj my favorite tanks). The 37mmM6 has a max range of 2025 meters (27 hex range at 75 metres per hex) while the 75mmM2 has a max range of 1750 metres (17 hexes). happy hunting



Arralen -> (12/2/2000 4:11:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by BlitzSS: ..Someone has already mentioned that the Grant tanks 75mm acts as if it is in a top turret(360 rather then a 120 degree traverse). I’ve also noticed that this same gun out ranges the 37mm (range of 30 hexes) by 5 hexes.
Are you using the British OOB? The Grant in this OOB still hasn't got the 75mm in weapon slot 4 (downmost) .. but only this slot is supposed to be "fixed forward". Ranges, accuracies etc. are still an issue with all OOBs, but I doubt we will ever get it all fixed [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img] Arralen



BlitzSS -> (12/3/2000 12:42:00 PM)

Hey Klink, thanks for data; I knew I wasn’t crazy (just nuts). North Africa has always been my favorite campaign too. I also noticed that the OOBs have the 50mm PAK ranging to 50 hexes! Lining up the old guns sights, out ranges your PZ IIIj’s optics. I’ve been fine-tuning these scenarios and changing (OOBs) ranges on some key units will affect the games balance. Grants when they run out of AP lob some effective HE! I had 2 Grants breakdown in a row, while running wide open in sand, during play testing. In good terrain this must be rare, unlike weapons breakdown, because I haven’t seen that happen to any of these unit before. What is the general consensus on OOBs?



BlitzSS -> (12/3/2000 12:42:00 PM)

Hey Klink, thanks for data; I knew I wasn’t crazy (just nuts). North Africa has always been my favorite campaign too. I also noticed that the OOBs have the 50mm PAK ranging to 50 hexes! Lining up the old guns sights, out ranges your PZ IIIj’s optics. I’ve been fine-tuning these scenarios and changing (OOBs) ranges on some key units will affect the games balance. Grants when they run out of AP lob some effective HE! I had 2 Grants breakdown in a row, while running wide open in sand, during play testing. In good terrain this must be rare, unlike weapons breakdown, because I haven’t seen that happen to any of these unit before. What is the general consensus on OOBs?



BillSeurer -> (12/5/2000 12:45:00 AM)

My Father-in-law was a tank driver (Chafees? I think, he was in a US recon outfit) in WWII and he lost two tanks to mechanical breakdown both of them while driving on roads. One time the transmission decided to become metal filings and I don't remember the other. BTW, he never had trouble with the guns. Based on my SPWaW play the biggest danger to my own tanks is their main gun breaking down!



BlitzSS -> (12/5/2000 3:01:00 AM)

In some earlier topics I was seeing a lot of input stating that the guys turn off (at least some of the time) weapons breakdown.



john g -> (12/7/2000 5:13:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by BillSeurer: My Father-in-law was a tank driver (Chafees? I think, he was in a US recon outfit) in WWII and he lost two tanks to mechanical breakdown both of them while driving on roads. One time the transmission decided to become metal filings and I don't remember the other. BTW, he never had trouble with the guns. Based on my SPWaW play the biggest danger to my own tanks is their main gun breaking down!
Back in my days of playing Squad Leader, what turned me off to the game was a play thru of "Paw of the Tiger", where a trio of German tanks and a 37 at gun try to hold off several dozen T34s, by the end of turn 4 as the German player I had all the tank main guns broken down, 2 of them permanently. At that point I resigned (that 37mm wasn't going to stop all the Soviet tanks) and vowed to never play SL again. Thus far I haven't yet seen where all the main guns break playing SPWaW, though I haven't seen a gun come back from the dead, the way that an immob vehicle will start up again. Even with all its guns broken down (happened quite a few times to me) a tank can still capture victory hexes, can still carry infantry, can still scout for enemy positions... Just because they can't shoot back doesn't mean that they are useless. thanks, John.



Mike Rothery -> (12/7/2000 10:13:00 AM)

Instead of weapons failures, why not have dud rounds instead. You could have a random percantage of dud rounds that fail to fire, but use up one shot. Next shot everythings OK. The other headache for tank crews was knowing what ammo to load next. You fire at a tank...the commander yells load sabot...then some enemy infantry pop up! From what I recall, doctrine is that if the enemy knows your location you just fire whatever you have loaded, as it takes significantly longer to unload the wrong shell and put in your new choice. This is probably too much detail for a game this scale though.



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