RE: I need to put this out there... (Full Version)

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RD Oddball -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/10/2010 4:27:39 PM)

It's important to check the elevation values between the two points. Not suggesting for sure that's what you were experiencing but that might explain why there's LOS between those two points.



Hard Sarge -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/10/2010 6:33:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RD_Oddball

It's important to check the elevation values between the two points. Not suggesting for sure that's what you were experiencing but that might explain why there's LOS between those two points.


oh come on

being higher don't mean you can shoot and the other guy can't, if his LOS/LOF isn't blocked then your's is not either, you may have a HARDer shot, but you do have a shot

these guys are all blocked by the 2nd wall in there path, while the AI is firing though 3 walls and 2 hedges



Hard Sarge -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/10/2010 6:34:52 PM)

It's important to check the elevation values between the two points. Not suggesting for sure that's what you were experiencing but that might explain why there's LOS between those two points.

.


and that is what we are saying, there would be LOS between the two points, not a one way view, the AI is seeing and firing though walls while the player can not



RD Oddball -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/10/2010 7:23:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge



oh come on

being higher don't mean you can shoot and the other guy can't,


OOPS! Sorry I missed that part of your post. My apologies for misunderstanding. When we heard the first reports of being able to shoot one direction but not the other we started looking at it. Didn't realize this was a continuation of that same exact issue.

*EDIT* in reply to your second post. Yep we totally agreed when it was first reported.



Hard Sarge -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/10/2010 7:39:35 PM)

no hassle

just trying to clear it up

hope what we have said will make it easier to find, or explain what is going on



RD Oddball -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/10/2010 8:19:41 PM)

Yes and thank you for the extra info!



Andrew Williams -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 1:45:07 AM)

It's being looked at...

I just tried the best battle and got LOS to those areas, my teams were behind the wall as indicated by judge



[image]local://upfiles/2239/98A297DFEC7A44BD838BCE7A7E95F7A1.jpg[/image]



TAIL GUNNER -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 2:59:22 AM)

It often seems like you and Oddball have a different build than us common folk...

The version I'm showing is 5.60.00

same as yours?



Andrew Williams -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 3:28:20 AM)

yep, same... unless someones done the switharoo on me.



RD Oddball -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 5:16:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Juggalo

It often seems like you and Oddball have a different build than us common folk...

The version I'm showing is 5.60.00

same as yours?


Your build is exactly the same as mine. I downloaded the digital version to do testing on. it's the only way to get accurate results.



JudgeDredd -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 7:23:56 AM)

It depends on the final position of the cursor. The only place I could get LOF/LOS was when I placed it on or very near the wall

[image]local://upfiles/10786/9D2F42B1A05E4671BEF0CA27F8783ADE.jpg[/image]



JudgeDredd -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 7:24:26 AM)

And here

[image]local://upfiles/10786/87E5CB6B46264E46B29B51D42CB527BC.jpg[/image]



JudgeDredd -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 7:25:14 AM)

And here

[image]local://upfiles/10786/332A06E14AFC4FD79F5152A3A6654637.jpg[/image]



JudgeDredd -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 7:25:59 AM)

Here's one where I do have LOS

[image]local://upfiles/10786/7D73EB42C15B4E028BB6CBD2587CE426.jpg[/image]



JudgeDredd -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 7:26:52 AM)

Now to be clear, I don't really have an issue with not having LOS - the fact that I was taking fire from moving German AI where I had no LOS back is my concern [:)]



JudgeDredd -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 7:48:28 AM)

Here is an issue where I have LOS through a building

[image]local://upfiles/10786/3103B0D990B846088AB4CD9BE4B65AF9.jpg[/image]



RD Oddball -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/13/2010 5:43:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Now to be clear, I don't really have an issue with not having LOS - the fact that I was taking fire from moving German AI where I had no LOS back is my concern [:)]


Yep exactly. LOS should possible both ways if clear in one direction. We're trying to replicate this at the moment so the extra info is helping. Thanks.

The LOS through the building is likely through windows. We'll check the map coding again to make sure but given we've done a good job with the map coding the likely explanation for what your example shows is windows being aligned on both sides of the building.



chiroho -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/15/2010 4:13:28 AM)

I've had similar experiences playing as the Germans, so it seems to be more of an AI thing in General. I was playing on the Groesbeek Heights North map and was getting pounded by an Allied MG unit which I would not "see", and could not get a LOS on even though I was losing men.

What also gets me is the way that the AI can "see" a unit which is ambushing and is hidden behind a wall, and hasn't moved or fired a shot in the entire game. Or when they can shoot at me but don't show up at all. In fact today I was playing on the Schijndel, and had two squads hunkered down in a building directly across a narrow street from where an Allied unit was firing at me. Range of 5 to 10 metres tops. And despite the fact that I was right across the street and was taking casualties, I couldn't "see" the Allied unit to fire on it at all!



Andrew Williams -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/15/2010 4:48:45 AM)

Because they are firing doesn't mean the AI can see you either.

If an AI team knows you're there it can area fire to fairly good effect



JudgeDredd -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/15/2010 7:12:13 AM)

yes - but same principle happens with LOS as LOF - if they can fire at your area, then you should be able to fire at their area - and that is not the case in what I originally discovered.If you don't have LOS to where the enemy are shooting from, then you can't area fire there...so if they are area firing at you, then they have LOS to you - granted it doesn't mean you or they are spotted - but it does mean they have LOS and therefore LOF to your area



jomni -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/15/2010 8:28:32 AM)

I'm ok with not seeing the enemy shooting at me when I can plot area fire to retaliate.
But if the invisible enemy is shooting at me and I can't direct an area fire at him because the view is blocked, then how come he can plot a shot at me?
I guess this is JD's point.



Andrew Williams -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/15/2010 9:11:39 AM)

No worries

We all See Judge's point

We are trying to reproduce and fix if need be.

:)



Hard Sarge -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/15/2010 12:11:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

No worries

We all See Judge's point

We are trying to reproduce and fix if need be.

:)




yea, but your screen shots are breaking the rules of the game, so something is not coming out right here (but then again, I have seen where you can have the green line to a area, but once it is on a target, it changes to a blocked view)

but thanks for looking, and hopefully we (you) can find a fix for it



SteveMcClaire -> RE: I need to put this out there... (7/15/2010 5:39:41 PM)

In the stone wall cases you posted above, LOS is hitting the low stone wall due to the angle of the LOS line and the wall being 1-1.5m higher than the ground beyond it. In the example where you are tracing clear LOS you have the cursor exactly over a wall element, so your LOS is not going down to the ground, but the top of the other wall.

I have tried positioning teams in this area and haven't been able to reproduce anything unexpected. In the situation you were describing, could you see the enemy team that was shooting at you, or just their fire coming from that area. Were you targeting the enemy team or the ground?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Here is an issue where I have LOS through a building


In this case your cursor is over an enemy team -- that is why you are getting the targeting circle at the end of the LOS line. When you are checking LOS to an enemy team it checks to see if you can see any member of the enemy team, and shows the 'best' LOS you have. So you are probably not getting LOS to the guy behind the house, but other members of the team that are already in the house.

Steve



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