RE: Modders Wishlist (Full Version)

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rk0123msp@mindspring -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/29/2010 3:30:29 PM)

There's several things I would like to mod into the game, but I don't think the things I would like to see are possible at this point (or even if they'll ever be possible .. too much of an overhaul):

1) Adding more & diversified monsters with special capabilities as well as movable asteroids & moons with minable resources in highly eliptical orbits on the galaxy map.

2) More reasearch components & researchable levels. I'd like to triple the number of weapons available for one, I'd like to add specialized components with special capabilities, for example small ship cargo bays for figters & bombers. Also I'd like to see planetary defensive bases, satallites, mine-fieds, planetary wide shields, many other things.

3) additional research catagories such as finance, genetics & biological research (to build monsters), cybernetics (robotic soldiers and ships), terraform capability to transform "dud" moons/worlds to something habitable.



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/29/2010 5:41:43 PM)

Thanks Shark7.

Triggered events added to section 12b.

New ruins events added to section 12c.

Space Ogre idea added to section 2h.

Additional race families ideas appended to section 2b.

Ship design theory added to section 2i. A most awesome idea, Shark. I like this one alot.

OK, the wishlist is no longer written in any meaningful order of priority or do-ability. Too much hard work re-arranging everything.[;)]



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/29/2010 5:54:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rk0123msp@mindspring

There's several things I would like to mod into the game, but I don't think the things I would like to see are possible at this point (or even if they'll ever be possible .. too much of an overhaul):

1) Adding more & diversified monsters with special capabilities as well as movable asteroids & moons with minable resources in highly eliptical orbits on the galaxy map.

2) More reasearch components & researchable levels. I'd like to triple the number of weapons available for one, I'd like to add specialized components with special capabilities, for example small ship cargo bays for figters & bombers. Also I'd like to see planetary defensive bases, satallites, mine-fieds, planetary wide shields, many other things.

3) additional research catagories such as finance, genetics & biological research (to build monsters), cybernetics (robotic soldiers and ships), terraform capability to transform "dud" moons/worlds to something habitable.



Not much can be modded at present, rk.

I like the idea of eliptical orbits. Fighters have been discussed at length on these boards, I hope that we'll see them one day. As for the special components for the fighters, That should be possible with modable tech. Building monsters? That's a new one for me!



rk0123msp@mindspring -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/30/2010 2:17:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard
I like the idea of eliptical orbits. Fighters have been discussed at length on these boards, I hope that we'll see them one day. As for the special components for the fighters, That should be possible with modable tech. Building monsters? That's a new one for me!



I was thinking the "Doomsday machine" episode from the original Star Trek series. If I remember correctly the race that built this "planet destroyer" actually got themselves & their planet destroyed by it. Genetics & bio research could open up a whole slew of possible "Frankenstein" monsters that can be built by the players to defeat the AI (or vice versa [;)]) .. this would include bio weapons like diseases and not just the "planet killers".



Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/30/2010 8:50:27 AM)

Just a thought on how to set up the race bias:

Easiest way would be to have a 'table' that lists each race 0-infinity, in which you use a switch to define the default casus belli (how each race feels about the other).

- 0 = neutral (We have no opinion of you)
- 1 = love (We naturally admire you)
- 2 = hate (We instinctively hate you)

The nice thing about being able to set it this way is that each race can feel differently towards each other race.

Race 1 may be neutral to race 2, but race 2 hates race 1, etc.

What are the effects of race bias? It depends.

1. With a neutral stance, the standard diplomacy/reputation modifiers would apply.
2. With a 'love' stance, the race is eager to be friends, offer treaties, and make alliances. Also, the 'love' stance would make a race much more forgiving of transgressions (IE they'll almost act like a doormat and let you walk all over them...to a point). Bad actions and bad reputation would have reduced effects on a race that loves you.
3. With the 'hate' stance, any minor incident means war...and ending the war will be very difficult. Bad actions would have double or triple effect with races that hate you, and bad reputation would also have a significantly increased effect.

Neutral stance is the default.

What do we gain with this?

You could mod the races into factions that will be almost garraunteed to form MDPs with 'love' races and be all but garranteed to war with 'hate' races. For example, in my mod I want all the humanoid races to band to gether to form the 'Stellar League' while all the bugs band together to form the 'Dark Horde'. While these two factions will never be named, with racial bias I can set all the humanoids to love each other, thus making it very likely they form MDPs, and all the bugs to love each other and very likely for MDPs. By setting all bugs to hate all humans and vice versa you make it so war between these two psuedo factions is inevitable.

Another thing that can be worked in for a diplomacy change would be empire mergers. Say race 1 loves race 2 and vice versa. They could theoretically decide that they are meant for each other and actually offer a diplomatic option "We believe it would be in both of our empires best interests if we were to form a central government and combine our strengths, would you agree to this?" (for example). If you the player accept, you instantly take control of most territory and ships of the offering empire (some would naturally resist and split off to form a new empire). The AIs can gain the same ability, with the offering empire joining the empire the offer is made to. Granted, this would be end game stuff, and not be easy at all to accomplish, even if both races love each other. Basically you are able to conquer without conquest.

Additional race bias also means that some races will resist you to the last man if they hate you or be easily governed if they love you. Neutral or love races will require normal garrison and have normal happiness modifiers when you add them to your empire (via various means).

Races that hate you will always be unhappy at best under your rule, will require greatly increased garrisons to control, and in most cases would rather be wiped out than be ruled by you. This eventually leads to more revolts, high costs for garrisons, lower income from these colonies, and may make bombardment and galactic extermination of the hate race a more desirable option.

While this has been a long winded post, it does allow you to my thinking process for the race bias in a much more detailed form than simply 'cat girls hate rat boys'. [;)]



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/30/2010 12:39:26 PM)

Shark7, thank you for explaining this further. My ideas are a bit different. I'll try to explain my version and see what you think.

The option for empire bias (this is how each empire feels about one another) gives the player the ability to set bias from -50 to +50 for every empire in every game. Accessable through the ingame editor.

I would simply like this changed to a .txt file in the customization folder. Instead of each empire listed, each race is listed (not humanoid, insectoid etc).

So just like you said a table style txt file, only with each race listed at the top and down the side, perhaps even just by number? Race image number would do.

This is what I would like to see as it gives the option to create an evil humanoid race or benevolent insectoid if we want to. In the same galaxy there could also be benevolent humans and evil insectoids.

I like the idea about merging 2 empires through diplomacy. I think this should go in the master wishlist thread for Elliot to implement. It also got me thinking, another option for diplomacy could be 'membership', like the United Federation of Planets. The player could offer membersip to other empires. If they are a small empire and the player has a maximum reputation and maximum friendship with that race, the small empire would 'join'. This shouldn't be an easy thing to accomplish and would be impossible on galaxies set to 'chaos'.



Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/30/2010 2:27:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Shark7, thank you for explaining this further. My ideas are a bit different. I'll try to explain my version and see what you think.

The option for empire bias (this is how each empire feels about one another) gives the player the ability to set bias from -50 to +50 for every empire in every game. Accessable through the ingame editor.

I would simply like this changed to a .txt file in the customization folder. Instead of each empire listed, each race is listed (not humanoid, insectoid etc).

So just like you said a table style txt file, only with each race listed at the top and down the side, perhaps even just by number? Race image number would do.

This is what I would like to see as it gives the option to create an evil humanoid race or benevolent insectoid if we want to. In the same galaxy there could also be benevolent humans and evil insectoids.

I like the idea about merging 2 empires through diplomacy. I think this should go in the master wishlist thread for Elliot to implement. It also got me thinking, another option for diplomacy could be 'membership', like the United Federation of Planets. The player could offer membersip to other empires. If they are a small empire and the player has a maximum reputation and maximum friendship with that race, the small empire would 'join'. This shouldn't be an easy thing to accomplish and would be impossible on galaxies set to 'chaos'.


This would be a vast improvement over what we have now. Your bias idea is more along the lines of a starting diplomatic relations modifier, while mine is Casus Belli which is very, very hard to overcome (if its hate at first site, that first impression tends to stick etc). Both would work out, and could in fact be used together.



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/30/2010 5:49:31 PM)

Added section 16. Modable sound folder.


Shark7, I'm going back to the drawing board with this. I thought race bias was a permanent modifier not just a starting diplomacy modifier. I need to do some testing to understand race bias as it stands right now. Does it slowly change over time depending on your relationship with the other empire?




Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/30/2010 11:42:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Added section 16. Modable sound folder.


Shark7, I'm going back to the drawing board with this. I thought race bias was a permanent modifier not just a starting diplomacy modifier. I need to do some testing to understand race bias as it stands right now. Does it slowly change over time depending on your relationship with the other empire?




If you set it in the in game editor, it is permanent, but it easily overcome during the game. What I'm looking for is a setting beyond that to open up more possibilites.

Setting to 50 or -50 in game means the race will love or hate you, and that 'we instinctively hate you' or 'we admire you will stick', but with reputation, government type and diplomacy it can be over-come. I've set races to -50 towards me at start and still managed trade agreements in a relatively short time by killing pirates and getting reputation up to heroic (or whatever it is called).

What I'm looking for is more of a 'we hate you and will listen to nothing you say. We hate you and will wipe you out just because you exist' and diplomacy or reputation has very, very little bearing on it. Also, the opposite with the 'we love you and want to spend the rest of our lives with you. And ok, you destroyed one of our merchant ships, but surely it was a mistake, we'll forgive you this time.' Obviously there would be a limit to it...you could through very diligent work get a hate race to be indifferent to you, or a love race to go neutral.

What I'm looking for would go beyond what is already offered. Something that is hard coded into the races via the mod files that keeps you from having to set it each time you play...and that has some more tangible effects other than just diplomacy modifiers.



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/31/2010 1:09:15 AM)

OK, I'm with you now. I've never been able to turn a race with -50 balance to liking me, probably because I always play on restless or chaotic and I'm never a shining beacon of goodness when I play.

So let's put it all together to make sure we're agreed before I add anything to the list.

Let's say we are making a mod with 4 races, 1,2,3&4. 1&2 are humanoid, 2&3 are insectoid.

The bias.txt file located in the theme folder would look like this :-

____1____2____3____4
1___0____50__-50__-50
2___50___0___-50__-50
3__-50__-50___0____50
4__-50__-50___50___0

I used '_' because spaces don't show up.

And the 'casusbelli.txt'(is this a good name for it?) would look something like this :-

____1____2____3____4
1___0____1____2____2
2___1____0____2____2
3___2____2____0____1
4___2____2____1____0

How many penalties/bonuses would we see?

0 = Neutral, no change to relations. Races can interact normally
1 = Love, + 100. Races are highly likely to form a MDP.
2 = Hate, - 100. Races are unable to trade with one another/Trade sanctions in constant effect. Highly likely to war. Likely to bombard rather than invade.

What do you think? I like this idea, but I want it to be clear what we're asking for. Any more that could be added?




Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/31/2010 2:20:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

OK, I'm with you now. I've never been able to turn a race with -50 balance to liking me, probably because I always play on restless or chaotic and I'm never a shining beacon of goodness when I play.

So let's put it all together to make sure we're agreed before I add anything to the list.

Let's say we are making a mod with 4 races, 1,2,3&4. 1&2 are humanoid, 2&3 are insectoid.

The bias.txt file located in the theme folder would look like this :-

____1____2____3____4
1___0____50__-50__-50
2___50___0___-50__-50
3__-50__-50___0____50
4__-50__-50___50___0

I used '_' because spaces don't show up.

And the 'casusbelli.txt'(is this a good name for it?) would look something like this :-

____1____2____3____4
1___0____1____2____2
2___1____0____2____2
3___2____2____0____1
4___2____2____1____0

How many penalties/bonuses would we see?

0 = Neutral, no change to relations. Races can interact normally
1 = Love, + 100. Races are highly likely to form a MDP.
2 = Hate, - 100. Races are unable to trade with one another/Trade sanctions in constant effect. Highly likely to war. Likely to bombard rather than invade.

What do you think? I like this idea, but I want it to be clear what we're asking for. Any more that could be added?




Yep, you got it. With the Casus Belli it might not be impossible to change it for the better/worse, but you'd really have to work at it. The main thing I want from Casus Belli is the ability to 'script' which races will have a tendency to form alliances, which the current racial bias does not guarantee.

For example, invading a love empire's planets would still be cause for war, and would probably move them to neutral with you, and eventually to hate if you keep it up. With a hate race, if you send them enough bribe money, they might eventually take a neutral stance with you.

Obviously it would be easier to make a love race hate you than a hate race love you.



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/31/2010 2:55:38 AM)

section 2j added. Race bias and casus belli modifiers.

section 17 added. Fix errors in the empire set up screen after changing theme.

Thanks Shark7, I think this is super idea. Just read my little speech at the end of it.[:D]



Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/31/2010 4:02:55 PM)

Ability to define planets in a mod.

A text file that allows the player to define any number of planets for special cases

- Planet name
- System in which it will always appear
- Resources that will always be found at the planet
- Habitability and Quality can be hard-coded
- Planet size hard coded
- Ability to set a specific graphic to use with the planet IE: a pointer to 0001.png in the PlanetArt folder.

Let's say I want to create the planet Eden in the Paradise system, the most perfect paradise (Quality 100, Habitability 100) in the known galaxy. Eden is a huge terrestial planet (size 600) that everyone wants to live on when they discover it, not to mention 1 or more rare resources are located here, along with large quantities of gold, gems, etc. This is the planet everyone is fighting for control of. You might even make a graphic for it of a beautiful lush, paradise to be the jewel of the galaxy.



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (7/31/2010 6:39:02 PM)

Nice one, Shark7. Added to section 14. Modable planet types.




Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/3/2010 12:43:10 PM)

Section 14b added. Ability to add new planet images. This was one of Baleur's suggestions from another thread.



DTFS -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/7/2010 3:35:12 AM)

I wish they make a Map Maker where you can Actually determine the location of each star (you could create Clusters for instance) preGame - i mean the ingame Editor is cool and all but it would be alot more fun to just mark a couple of places on the map before you start to show where groups of stars would be

ALSO:

i wish they'd release the components for editing even if its only at the basic level like the races.txt



WoodMan -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/7/2010 12:25:50 PM)

Igard great job keeping the list up to date!

I have another suggestion, just a simple one this time.

Make the Customization folder the exact same structure as the Distant Worlds base folder.  At the moment it is slightly different, also hopefully anything (at least most things anyway) in the base folder and its subfolder should be customizable and we can then just add a file/folder with the same name into the customization folder.  Also, hopefully when the modders patch is released a simple updated customization guide just letting everyone know where everything goes and what the new possibilities are will come with it.

Cheers!



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/7/2010 2:32:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DTFS

i wish they'd release the components for editing even if its only at the basic level like the races.txt


That may well end up being the case. We don't really know what the extra improvements are going to be, we just have to wait and see.


@Woodman, Good ones. I'm not sure if this will be how it goes, perhaps there will just be small additions with each patch. Eventually we would get to this stage, but I've added it all the same since this is our goal.

Added section 18a. Improved Customization folder.

Added section 18b. A new improved customization guide.



Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/11/2010 10:15:53 AM)

Another nice to have thing:

Ability to make a colony name list so a player can build a list of names he/she wants to use for newly colonized planets. As a planet is colonized, the name is assigned from the list. A simple comma deliniated list, just like the ShipNames.txt would suffice.

IE:

Paradise, Utopia, Eden, Sanctuary, etc, etc, etc



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/11/2010 12:13:10 PM)

That's a good idea.[:)]

Section 19. Colony name txt file. Added to the list.



Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/11/2010 3:54:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

That's a good idea.[:)]

Section 19. Colony name txt file. Added to the list.



Came to me late last night while I was playing and having to rename my planets as I go. Did make note of the moons now having actual names as opposed to E129 etc.



Sark -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/11/2010 4:40:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

3. Modable technology. Edit the names, images and properties of each tech.

3b. Ability to add/remove tech. Define their position in the tech tree. This includes new weapon types, shields, everything.




Just to flesh this out a bit more... I would like to see an option to flag a tech as untradable. I feel that tech trading advances the research much more quickly than I would like and it would be nice to be able to turn it off.

It would also be nice to flag a tech as only available to a certain race so then you could develop race specific tech trees as well.



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/11/2010 8:51:55 PM)

Great suggestions, Sark.

Section 3c. Option to flag tech as untradable added to the list.  I hate it when empires so carelessly offer to trade, what should be, their closest guarded secrets.

Section 3d. Option to assign a tech to one certain race added to the list. This seems to me a very simple and easy solution to creating race specific tech trees.



WoodMan -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/11/2010 9:02:47 PM)

Dunno if this really counts, but my number 1 wish, the modders patch will be before the addon.  Even if its only basic like allowing us to assign hive/merch guild/tech/utop governments to custom races and use 20 ship sets.



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/11/2010 10:41:16 PM)

I'm not getting my hopes up too much, I have a feeling it will be basic stuff that we get at first. I'll be happy as long as it gives us plenty of work to do. 20 ship sets would be my number 1 wish since it will allow me to start adding more Star Trek ships.




Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/12/2010 2:14:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sark


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

3. Modable technology. Edit the names, images and properties of each tech.

3b. Ability to add/remove tech. Define their position in the tech tree. This includes new weapon types, shields, everything.




Just to flesh this out a bit more... I would like to see an option to flag a tech as untradable. I feel that tech trading advances the research much more quickly than I would like and it would be nice to be able to turn it off.

It would also be nice to flag a tech as only available to a certain race so then you could develop race specific tech trees as well.


Going a bit further you could have species specific techs that can only be obtained through spy missions. They can not be researched or obtained via trade or ruin events, the tech is specific to one race/species, and it is not necessarily a starting tech.

Just an example:

The humans being forced to find new power sources due to their early reliance on fossil fuels that eventually dissapeared have developed a compact, efficient reactor core to power even their smallest vehicles. This has led to a breakthrough in reactor technology that gives ships the same reactor power as standard reactors in half the space (the tech would be 'Reactor Miniturization and reduces reactor space by 50%). This technology is heavily guarded by the humans and all human reactors are set to detonate on destruction or unauthorized access of the ship to protect it.

The Sluken want this tech. Several attempts to capture an intact ship with the technology have failed as the fail safe triggered a self destruction of the ships. Sluken high command has devised a plan to kidnap the Human lead scientist and 'persuade' him to divulge the technology.

IN this example, the Sluken would have at best a 2-3% chance of success...more likely 1%. But you get the idea...a special tech that is guarded and never shared.



Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/12/2010 2:15:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sark


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

3. Modable technology. Edit the names, images and properties of each tech.

3b. Ability to add/remove tech. Define their position in the tech tree. This includes new weapon types, shields, everything.




Just to flesh this out a bit more... I would like to see an option to flag a tech as untradable. I feel that tech trading advances the research much more quickly than I would like and it would be nice to be able to turn it off.

It would also be nice to flag a tech as only available to a certain race so then you could develop race specific tech trees as well.


Going a bit further you could have species specific techs that can only be obtained through spy missions. They can not be researched or obtained via trade or ruin events, the tech is specific to one race/species, and it is not necessarily a starting tech.

Just an example:

The humans being forced to find new power sources due to their early reliance on fossil fuels that eventually dissapeared have developed a compact, efficient reactor core to power even their smallest vehicles. This has led to a breakthrough in reactor technology that gives ships the same reactor power as standard reactors in half the space (the tech would be 'Reactor Miniturization and reduces reactor space by 50%). This technology is heavily guarded by the humans and all human reactors are set to detonate on destruction or unauthorized access of the ship to protect it.

The Sluken want this tech. Several attempts to capture an intact ship with the technology have failed as the fail safe triggered a self destruction of the ships. Sluken high command has devised a plan to kidnap the Human lead scientist and 'persuade' him to divulge the technology.

IN this example, the Sluken would have at best a 2-3% chance of success...more likely 1%. But you get the idea...a special tech that is guarded and never shared.


And as an add-on to this, would be nice to have a tech table that we could assign to each individual race so that each race has its own tech tree. [;)]



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/12/2010 1:34:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
would be nice to have a tech table that we could assign to each individual race so that each race has its own tech tree. [;)]


Appended to section 3d. It's basically what Sark said, but this is a good method for implementing it.[;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Going a bit further you could have species specific techs that can only be obtained through spy missions. They can not be researched or obtained via trade or ruin events, the tech is specific to one race/species, and it is not necessarily a starting tech.


Just to clarify. This tech would be untradable and very hard to steal? Apart from that, it's no different from any other tech. It could appear anywhere in the tech tree.

In your example you mention miniturization tech. I'm not sure if you are just using this as an expample or if you want racial bonuses for specific tech stats. I don't think that will work with Distant Worlds. We should be able to create our own techs and then assign them to the races we want. So if we want the humans to have 50% smaller reactors, we would create several reactors that are 50% smaller than everyone else's.



Shark7 -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/12/2010 2:28:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
would be nice to have a tech table that we could assign to each individual race so that each race has its own tech tree. [;)]


Appended to section 3d. It's basically what Sark said, but this is a good method for implementing it.[;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Going a bit further you could have species specific techs that can only be obtained through spy missions. They can not be researched or obtained via trade or ruin events, the tech is specific to one race/species, and it is not necessarily a starting tech.


Just to clarify. This tech would be untradable and very hard to steal? Apart from that, it's no different from any other tech. It could appear anywhere in the tech tree.

In your example you mention miniturization tech. I'm not sure if you are just using this as an expample or if you want racial bonuses for specific tech stats. I don't think that will work with Distant Worlds. We should be able to create our own techs and then assign them to the races we want. So if we want the humans to have 50% smaller reactors, we would create several reactors that are 50% smaller than everyone else's.


Just an example, but you do understand. But yes, some techs should be able to be marked as unique and be very hard for other races to obtain.

Edit: Also, even if you copy the stats exactly, a laser in one tech table can be called a blaster or a disruptor for another tech table. It's the same thing and does the same damage, but it gives you a species specific name for it if you so desire.



Igard -> RE: Modders Wishlist (8/12/2010 10:52:51 PM)

Good stuff, Appended to section 3c.

Empires really should guard their secrets more carefully.[;)]



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