Perturabo -> RE: Wargame or Strategy Game? (7/23/2010 6:58:44 PM)
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ORIGINAL: jomni Perturabo are you sick of RTS games? Yeah, I got pretty sick of them after I discovered Close Combat. It shown me that more realistic means more brutal and more exciting. Thrill of combat, power of command and all that stuff. Since RTS games are basically warped strategic games - the combat tends to be slow and simplified - tactical wargames offer much more brutal and detailed combat. For example casualties - in RTS games units simply lose health points, while in tactical games they can get suppressed, hit or not, injured, wounded or killed instantly, etc. quote:
ORIGINAL: jomni Why is your avatar and signature showing Command and Conquer? Just curious. Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun has great graphics and great cutscenes. A well made Tiberian Sun map is a feast for eyes. I don't play it any more, though. I made a brutal combat mod for it several years ago, but the combat wasn't as satisfying as in a tactical wargame anyway, so I have stopped playing it. When I bought C&C:TS, I basically played through the NOD and GDI campaigns and quickly got bored with it and stopped playing it until I learned about modding several years later. quote:
ORIGINAL: jomni Is World in Conflict an RTS for you? No base building but things do happen fast. I haven't played it. But there's a weird genre of games that are RTS derivatives - they basically keep the simplified combat with health bars and remove the resource management/base building or do some other things like adding more complex mechanics. I don't know how to classify them - as they seem to do stuff backwards - removing some unrealistic elements from RTS genre or adding some realistic elements instead of simply making a real time simulation. Sometimes such attempts get really weird - for example Dawn of War has squads, health bars, armour, weapon damage, chance to hit, cover, morale, etc. - lots of redundant mechanics, because it ends up working as in much simpler Command & Conquer or Starcraft anyway. quote:
ORIGINAL: jomni Can you say Wargames are the ones grownups play and RTS are the ones kids play? Well, not really. I actually started out with wargames. Mainly Legions of Death, Guadalcanal and Laser Squad as they were easiest to learn without manual. I think it's more like that wargames are for the ones who want realistic gameplay and RTS are for those who want absurd gameplay (I won't use the word "abstract", because practically every genre outside of those with advanced physics simulation must use abstraction anyway). Of course, they may be fun to a lot of people because of things like various strategies, game balance, and other stuff like that. quote:
ORIGINAL: jomni Anyway anyone remember Microprose / Sid Meier's Command Series during the 1980's? Crusade in Europe, Decision in the Desert, Conflict in Vietnam... These are really nice and simple real-time operational wargames. I considered adding them to my "to buy" list some time ago. What are they like? quote:
ORIGINAL: diablo1 Come out to the real world of PCgamer or Computer Gamer or Gamespy, Gamespot or IGN and we can talk. In real world wargaming outdated and no one makes wargames because they can't sell in millions of copies[:'(]. Also, there's going to be a WitP remake. It's going to be re-imagined as a first person shooter because it's not 1994. Anyway, the problem is that game journalists don't bother to use sensible terminology. They call a game a strategy game and that's it. Except that it doesn't mean anything. It's just a marketing buzzword, just like immersion, etc. From what I've seen, people who actually make wargames tend to avoid classifying them as strategy games unless they are actually strategic level wargames. For example: Fire Brigade manual calls the game "computer simulation" and a "command game". Microprose catalogue calls its "Command Series" "accelerated real time simulations" and "strategic simulations". Wargames section of the SSI catalogue from 1991 has "computer simulations", "operational wargames" and "tactical simulations". "Guadalcanal" (real time and accelerated time, IIR) from activision is called "strategic war game". It seems to happen on strategic level. "Legions of Death" (phase based) is called a "real-time simulation" "Close Combat" box and manual doesn't bother to name the genre. They just describe what the game is. Sean O'Connor's "Firefight" released in 1998 is called by him a "real time simulation". So, no hint of RTS anywhere. It appears that the name most commonly used by the people who actually make these games is "real time simulation" (RTSim?), which would neatly separate the games that aim for realism from RTS. Still, it's not very precise - after all, it puts a tactical wargame with explosions and gore in the same category as an operational wargame with unit icons.
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