Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (Full Version)

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Tatoune -> Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (8/11/2010 8:56:19 PM)

Hi all,

Last days i was messing around with penetration, effect, armor, durability... and I need help to understand a few things cause I can't figure it out, and I dont have much experience with AE.

In the editor manual, it said a device need to have a penetration value higher vs armor to inflict damage (for AFV), quite simple to undestand (i think then we can apply the "effect" value of the device once it has penetrated).

Ok, but for ship and aircraft, it's not clear for me.

1- For instance, if a ship has a deck armor of 100, and get hit by a few 500 lb GP Bombs (penetration 45), will there be damage? I mean yes starting fires, ammo/cargo/fuel explosion, etc, but directly can we apply penetration vs armor? (like the AFV)

Now let's talk about durability. This represent the toughness of aircraft/ship, which mean the damage they can take before they get destroyed.

2- if an aircraft/ship has a durability of 40, is there a way to know how many hits or "effect" the aircraft/ship need before it get destroyed?

3- if a .303 Browning MG (penetration 1) hit an a/c (armor 1), does it inflict damage?

i wish to know exactly how it works.

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VSWG -> RE: Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (8/11/2010 10:01:49 PM)

You might find some answers in the "Scenario Design" forum, both for the old WitP, and AE:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=132
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=715

Do a search, if you don't find much, post your questions in the latter forum again.

Hope this helps. [:)]



topeverest -> RE: Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (8/18/2010 8:44:08 PM)

Regarding naval penetration - Penetration is the MAXIMUM armor the weapon can penetrate in millimetres under normal conditions. Armor on a ship represents the MAXIMUM armor protecting in millimetres for that aspect of the ship. I do not know the guts of the combat routine (which probably is a good thing so I cant game it), but I would say in my experience with AE the probability of getting penetration with an attacking device / bomb / torpedoe / etc. is very low if the penetration of the device is below the armor rating of the part of the ship that was hit. The more inferior the penetration to armor rating, the more likely the chances of penetration will be well below 1%

In aircraft. Armor represents whether the airframe type had self sealing fuel tanks and armor in the pilot compartment / etc. If I understand the combat routine well enough, it has the effect of reducing certain types of damage to the airframe from 'kill' to 'damage' and from 'damage' to 'no-effect'. This in turn has the effect of reducing the combat losses of said airframe.

Durability is the games mechanism to measure the amount of damage a ship or aircraft can take prior to sinking / destruction. In a 'hit' the durability of the target is measured against the effect of the device (weapon). Effect generally speaking is the weight of the warhead. So simple combat math goes something like this IIRC:

1. did you spot the enemy
2. did you acquire a firing position against said enemy
3. did you survive to attack
4. did you hit the target
5. what part of the target was hit
6. is it a dud or partial dud
7. did it penetrate / cause damage
8. did it cause a critical hit
9. how much damage (system, weapons system, floatation, engines, fires, etc) did it cause
10. did the target get destroyed (or not)

Remember there is a random element to every damage and attack.



Nikademus -> RE: Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (8/18/2010 8:54:21 PM)

penetration value must exceed armor value, otherwise no penetration.

Note that in AE a "Superstructure" Hit location has been added, This location is unarmored and allows SYS damage and fire damage. A message of heavy casualties to the Damage Control crews indicates a reduced ability of the ship to control fires and flooding and reduce non major damage over time.




topeverest -> RE: Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (8/18/2010 9:33:13 PM)

Thanks Nicademous.




Tatoune -> RE: Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (8/20/2010 3:30:39 AM)

thanks,

Even if I did a lot of search, your answers are well appreciated



castor troy -> RE: Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (8/20/2010 9:13:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

penetration value must exceed armor value, otherwise no penetration.

Note that in AE a "Superstructure" Hit location has been added, This location is unarmored and allows SYS damage and fire damage. A message of heavy casualties to the Damage Control crews indicates a reduced ability of the ship to control fires and flooding and reduce non major damage over time.





what Nik mentions here is a VERY IMPORTANT message to be closely watched during the replay. I had a carrier severely damaged and thought it had good chances to make it, but I had a couple of days with a message about the damage control team being cut off in the ship, which resulted in a high reduction of crew experience, the carrier ended up around 30 exp which is only halve of what it had at the day of the engagement. This resulted in the near loss of the ship because experience seems to be muchos importante in keeping a ship afloat.

A nice new feature.



erstad -> RE: Armor - Penetration - Effect - Durability... who knows (8/20/2010 6:57:53 PM)

Both as Japan and Allies, one of the last things I always to is bring up the ships screen (hot key "S"); sort on system damage, look at the top of the list; sort on float damage, look at the top of the list.

This allows me to find ships that have been damaged by collision, search planes, etc. without going through every report with a fine tooth comb.

It also flags ships that are starting to accumulate sys damage due to lack of fuel.

Finally, if I have damaged ships moving to a shipyard or larger port, I always set auto-disband. When I see a ship with 30 float damage in, say, Brisbane or Tokyo, I know it's arrived and I can click on the ship and put it in the shipyard.



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