Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (Full Version)

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Doomboy -> Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 3:37:14 AM)

Ok, very new to the game.

I start out, get pirate attacks on all fronts, everywhere.

I pay them off. Then they offer an alliance, for like 3k a month.

I have 12k in the bank, and a monthly income of 5k, so I go for it.

I start losing money, and losing money, and losing money. And losing money.

I'm at -60k, an income of 25k...and still losing money.

When I check finances, it says I'm at -60k, and have an income of 23k.

But I still lose money, month in and month out.

I finally break the alliance. I get slaughtered by pirate attacks that take out all my mining bases in a month (whew, good thing I selected 'few' pirates).

So, I'm guessing I'm actually paying the pirates 10x as much as I think I am, maybe, and that the money is not 'on the books'.

Or is it something else. Would love to know what the 'real' finances are, because the finance screen sure seems to be rubbish.

Any clues?



Grotius -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 3:51:54 AM)

I'm new too, so I'm pretty clueless as well. But there are a few things to check. On your Empire summary screen, check to see what's costing you the most -- is it ship maintenance, starbase maintenance, something else? And see what your revenue sources are; most likely your first colony's tax base, plus maybe some starport or tourist revenue. Or post a screenshot of that screen here so the experts can comment. I don't see why a monthly payment of 3K would bankrupt you. (Though myself, I usually refuse to pay unless it's very cheap.)

Me, I don't understand what the small number on the upper-right hand part of the screen means -- the number below our current cash reserves. Is it yearly income? Monthly? For that matter, what time period is denoted by the empire summary screen: yearly? monthly?

I'm playing with "normal" pirates, and I wish I'd picked "few." Sounds like it's still no picnic!

Anyway, I hope someone more knowledgeable than me can weigh in.



Doomboy -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 4:00:53 AM)

Hmm, maybe that's yearly income, that would explain things better.

My finances are pretty simple--game just started. I have 1 colony right by homeworld, a 95% er...I think it's making 1k. I just had the few ships I started with, plus one extra destroyer (much of it got destroyed by pirate rampages, though). The other expense is troops on my homeworld, if I recall correctly. I didn't tear them down, but the fact still remains, the page says I'm POSITIVE on monthly income, but my treasury is NEGATIVE.

But, yeah, maybe that's yearly income. Bay, the numbers still don't add up, but maybe I'll just look things over more carefully, and I'll just turn off the pirates next time, until I have a clue what's going on.



Igard -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 4:02:44 AM)

Have a good read at this thread :-

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2533006

It has lots of useful discussion on how best to handle the games economy.

Reading your post kind of reminds me of some of the games I had when I just started playing. Sometimes you do get a bit unlucky with too many pirates around your homeworld and it can be a good strategy to buy them off to begin with, but that should only be until you build a fleet strong enough to take out their base. Finding the pirate base is essential and you'll need to build exploration ships for that.

The best advice is to try not to build too much too fast. Remember that space ports and construction ships are expensive to maintain, and building of these should always be kept to a minimum. Only build what you absolutely need. It sounds like you need military ships. Early pirates shouldn't be too hard to fend off with a small fleet of frigates.

Resort bases are also a good source of income and getting them established early is a good idea. Open the galaxy screen, it's on the bottom right of the screen IIRC. Select scenic locations form the menu and build at these hot spots.



Igard -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 4:06:28 AM)

I believe that's monthly income. It's hard to track because it fluctuates daily.



lordxorn -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 5:29:57 AM)

Yes the Devs have touched on this subject as far as the income indicator, and it is hard to show a real cash flow because like Igard said it fluctuates wildly. So never base whether you are doing well on just the cash income.

Now as far as pirates go, NEVER pay them a monthly fee of 3k. I believe it still is not listed on your expenses.

The key to a strong economy is to expand fast, in colonies above 50% and all the luxury resources you can lay claim to. Your culture needs to be above 80% or better, and this is accomplished by having as many different luxury resources as possible. That is the trick, because you may start of in a part of the galaxy with few luxury resources, so you have to explore fast. At the start of the game, build like 4 explorers right away. Send them out to the quadrants with the most stars, and assign one explorer to each quadrant by selecting an explorer and right click on a star within the quadrant, and select "whole sector",

One you do that, redesign your Destroyers. The default ones are not good, include a good amount of fuel tanks, and weapon power. These will be your Pirate hunters. Build as many destroyers as your economy can handle.

While your explorers discover new colonies and resources, make sure to que them up for colonization or mining. Pay attention to luxuries and make them a priority.

Once your destroyer fleet is built group them into a single fleet. Have them on standby at your home world. If you get lucky your explorer may happen upon their HQ, immediately go destroy it.

Once Pirate HQ is toast, the other pirate factions may join you, you also get a nice diplomatic boost from the other races for culling the pirate threat.

These pointers should get your empire up and running nicely.

Never give into to terrorism. [:D]



the1sean -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 11:25:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

Yes the Devs have touched on this subject as far as the income indicator, and it is hard to show a real cash flow because like Igard said it fluctuates wildly. So never base whether you are doing well on just the cash income.

Now as far as pirates go, NEVER pay them a monthly fee of 3k. I believe it still is not listed on your expenses.

....

These pointers should get your empire up and running nicely.

Never give into to terrorism. [:D]


Very well put. I play "Many Pirates", with "Restless Aggression" settings (or higher aggression occassionally, but sometimes its not as much fun if every other race in the galaxy is frothing at the mouth so badly that they cant do anything but shoot at your trade ships). I do well on these settings, so I have to put in my 2 creds [:'(]

First off, make sure to purchase a couple of extra automated escorts/frigates to do escort duty and partol the stars. Definitely follow lordxorn's advice on Destroyers as well.

Next, dont forget that without an exploration ship or three, you wont find that pirate base so that you can blow it up. Reconnaissance and Intel are priceless.

Lastly, NEVER EVER PAY THE PIRATES!, especially in the early game! That 3000 credits could have bought you tons more warships every month. The other problem is that with the credits you give them, the pirates will just buy more ships! Now, you might say "I need the space to build up my fleet". However, most likely the pirates will be working their trade on somebody else, boosted with the money that you gave them. By the time you stop paying ransom, the problem will have worsened exponentially.

PS: Also, make sure you arent queuing up tons of colony ships, just one at a time early on if you are having money issues. You pay upkeep while they are constructing. In my current game I think that I am upkeeping like 30, and the majority arent even airborne yet, but I can afford it [X(]



[image]local://upfiles/35048/BC275099D94F4E269237C0BF6B266878.jpg[/image]



Fideach -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 12:58:26 PM)

On the ships and bases area in the above pic; what does that lightning symbol mean? I haven't played the game for a week or so and don't know if I ever knew what that one meant.



Wenla -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/20/2010 3:24:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fideach

On the ships and bases area in the above pic; what does that lightning symbol mean? I haven't played the game for a week or so and don't know if I ever knew what that one meant.


IIRC it's fire power. All that together is military value.



adecoy95 -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/21/2010 12:35:10 AM)

cancel all your pirate protection deals, they are insanely expensive, and pirates have never really been much of a thread worth the cost anyways



Baleur -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/21/2010 2:51:57 PM)

Download the latest patch :P



Bartje -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/21/2010 4:19:41 PM)

That always helps [:D]



torrenal -> RE: Hemorrhaging money, but....why? (8/21/2010 6:49:16 PM)

Government is another factor in income.

Consider:
Democracy: -25% corruption, +15% colony income, +20% Maint costs
Despotism: -20% maint costs, +40% corruption
Dictatorship: -20% maint costs
Way of Ancients: -20% Maint costs, +10% colony income
Way of Darkness: -50% maint costs
---------------
The two big factors are what you take in (corruption & income), and what you pay out (maint).
The more of these 3 factors you can line up in your favor, the better.  On the otherhand, some of these can really cripple your funding (such as Despotism).
Something to consider -- other empires can change your government type -- called 'Incite Revolution', so checking can't hurt.
---------------
Did you get improved command centers?  These have a direct impact on maintenance costs -- I was able to retrofit my ships and bases recently and, and despite getting extra parts for everything (ECM, yay), the they all still have a lower maintenance cost, causing the retrofit to pay for itself in all of 5 years.
//Torrenal



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