Veterans. The treasure of our time. (Full Version)

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Reg -> Veterans. The treasure of our time. (12/5/2000 6:36:00 PM)

A new neighbour moved in next door other week who is a Hungarian (though he prefers to be known as Transylvanian). Whilst leaning on a garden rake, we had an interesting conversation and it came out during the war that he was a Tiger tank driver. You could have knocked me over with a feather as this was the last thing I was expecting in an Australian suburb. He confidently stated that they could defeat anything within 3km at all angles. (Interesting terminology if he wasn't a tanker). He then began describing an encounter and even gave a date, 27 Aug 44. He explained that this was in the midst of a large Soviet offensive and they were surrounded by 100,000 Russian troops. Then he claimed they had destroyed some 14 Russian T34s and seemed quite proud of the fact (and quite rightly so). He also noted that some women crews bailed out of the burning tanks. 'We had to open fire, it was war' he said shrugging his shoulders. He went on to describe how while they were engaging the T-34s, some JS-2 tanks were also present. (He then proceeded to describe how they were armed with 152mm guns).* He said that it was most unusual that was they didn't intervene into the firefight until his unit was given the order to withdraw to the road which was 600m to the rear. They then opened up and his tiger immediately took a hit. He climbed out to check damage and found the front sprocket drive that been hit but was quickly forced back inside by machinegun fire. The stated that this was serious but tigers were the only tank that could still move with one track.** He was reporting the damage to the vehicle commander when they then took a second hit in the engine compartment and he said the smell of fuel rapidly filled the vehicle. Apparently the fuel tanks in the engine bay had been ruptured and it was flowing into the main compartment. The commander rapidly ordered them out and they escaped in the observation 'shadow' thrown by their vehicle. They hadn't gotten very far when he said there was a huge bang and he watched the turret of their tank flying up in the air, turning over and over. He said his unit was the 64th Panzers (Div or Regt I couldn't tell) as you have to be a little diplomatic as you listen to reminisces so I was unable to get a clarification. Hopefully I may be able to get a bit more information out of him if the topic ever comes up again. * He may have confused it with the SU-152 or it really was a JS-2 and he got the gun wrong. ** I make no claims to accuracy of this statement but he was there and I wasn't (and not everything finds it's way into books). Some of the facts may be a little distorted by time or tainted by things heard later but it was still a very interesting conversation and I didn't hear him say anything that was blatantly incorrect (he knew his vehicle). The guy who used to live next door (who fortunately moved on, not passed on) was a paratrooper in New Guinea and was quite happy to talk about his experiences parachuting into the jungle during the offensives during 1943. He was a braver man than I knowing the size the crocodiles can grow to up there!!!! In a few years they will all have gone and I think the world will be the sadder for it. Reg.



mogami -> (12/5/2000 7:59:00 PM)

Hi, Very Interesting (oh no!!) I played in a chess tourny in Jacksonville Fla in 1991. In the 3rd round my opponent was named George Meyer. He told me (after the game) he had been a FJ durning WWII first in Holland then Crete and was in Italy in 43' where he was wounded and captured. He was sent to Texas as a POW and liked it so much he moved there after the war and became a US citizen. He said during the assault on Crete he lived on candy bars and amphetimines. He enlisted at age 18 in 1937. He was a very nice fellow and we drank many beers together after the games for the day were over. OH I almost forgot when you are talking to someone and they mention a Division also ask what Regt that makes it easier to look at without insulting them they may just be using differant terms (calling brigade a division) ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction! [This message has been edited by Mogami (edited December 05, 2000).]



Huffy -> (12/5/2000 10:48:00 PM)

Very interesting...thank you guys. Huffy



Kluckenbill -> (12/6/2000 12:11:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Reg: He said his unit was the 64th Panzers (Div or Regt I couldn't tell) as you have to be a little diplomatic as you listen to reminisces so I was unable to get a clarification. Hopefully I may be able to get a bit more information out of him if the topic ever comes up again. Reg.
In my job as a Financial Advisor I often come across men who served in WW2, I always try to learn form their stories and my experience is much like yours. I've learned a lot of fascinating things, but I've also heard a lot of information that just doesn't seem to mesh with what I've read. I'm too polite to dispute the information so I just keep asking questions and try to get clarification. I too have observed the fact that most combat soldiers really don't know all that much about their enemy's equipment. There is another thread somewhere about how all GIs thought all German tanks were Tigers and all guns were 88's. ------------------ Target, Cease Fire !



JNL -> (12/6/2000 5:26:00 PM)

I had a landlord back in the early '80s. He was a little strange but the rent was cheap and if I had a problem with the house he would pop right over and fix it. Whenever he came over to work on something - he always would sit himself down at our piano and play (badly) and sing (worse). He came over one Saturday to work on the plumbing and I had all my Squad Leader boards out on the dining room table playing one of the Market Garden scenarios. Bob looks down and the boards and says "Hey - that looks a little like Nijmegen." So I look and him and ask "You know a little about WWII?". He looks me right in the eyes and says "Nah - don't like reading about that stuff. Besides I jumped there." My jaw dropped. Turned out he was with the 101st. Jumped at Normandy and Operation Market Garden. Wounded in Holland and spent the rest of the war in a hospital. He had some great stories. We ended up moving out about a year later - he passed on around 1993 or so. He never did learn to play the piano very well. I do miss his singing though. This is a great thread - who else has stumbled on a vet?



frank1970 -> (12/6/2000 8:42:00 PM)

I think it is absolutely no problem to find WW2 veterans in Germany or maybe Europe: almost every man older than 72 years was in the army and in war. I know 1 Gebirgsjäger ( 7.Gebirgsdiv: my grandfather), one Panzermann (7.Panzerdiv: my other grandfather), one Afrikacorps-fighter, one Fallschirmjäger(1.FJDiv), ... . You see, nothing special in Germany to know a dozen WW2 veterans.



Lou -> (12/6/2000 8:59:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by JNL: This is a great thread - who else has stumbled on a vet?
My ex father-in-law was an AA gunner all the way from N. Africa, the Bulge, and at Remagan bridge. He didn't talk much about the war, but the family and I always found a way to con him into watching White Christmas during the holidays. He reactions during the songs "We'll Follow the Old Man", and "Gee, I Wish I Were Back in the Army" were priceless. He would say, "Back in the army hell! I let a friend of mine talk me into going into the reserves after the war...he said we were done with war. Then the Korean war started...dumb sunnavabitch! Bing Crosby can go to hell. I was done being shot at." Despite his desire to not talk about the war, he did have a passing interest in my Squad Leader games and even built this totally cool compartmented box to carry everything in. Lou



Kluckenbill -> (12/6/2000 9:30:00 PM)

I used to work with a guy who was an artillery FO in 3rd AD during WW2. Once he was telling me a story about how they blew up their equipment and snuck out past the Germans during the bulge. I thought he might be exaggerating, but then I read the account of Task Force Rose (I think that's the one anyway) in "The Bitter Woods" and it was exactly as he described it. He was a Sergeant commanding a Sherman tank and I once asked him how the Sherman was in combat. He said he did very little fighting, the tank was just there to protect him and his radios. As he put it: "The tankers took great care of us. If you were a company commander and you had this sergeant attached to you that could call in Corps artillery to support you, would you let him get hurt?" ------------------ Target, Cease Fire !



frank1970 -> (12/6/2000 9:50:00 PM)

My grandfather tells a lot of stories about war, but he only tells funny ones. He showed me how to build a Knüppeldamm (ie a road made out of wood over muddy territory), or how to build a blockhouse. He also speaks about the horses, what they ate, what they pulled, how long they lived,... .



GrinningDwarf -> (12/7/2000 7:06:00 AM)

My father-in-law was a Marine late in the Pacific war. He refuses to say a word about it. Now that he's had a couple of strokes this last year, he doesn't talk much at all anymore. I wish I had been able to find something out about his time...even knowing his outfit would have been a big help in learning what he would have seen.



ChrisF -> (12/7/2000 7:36:00 AM)

GDwarf: Sorry to hear about your father in law's ill health. It is very sad that the WWII vets are passing on so quickly now. You can probably find out a lot about him from NARA (National Archives and Records Administration). I have some homework to do with them as well, as I have a great-great grandfather who was a private in Co. G 28'th Maine infantry in the Civil War. I hear they are very cooperative with folks doing family research. NARA was a tip from a friend of mine who is an archivist with the State of Rhode Island. Anyway back to topic. Several years ago my wife and I hired some contractors to work on our house. An older gentleman (owner of the business) noticed the excellent book I was reading about the 29'th ID in Normandy. Turns out he made the landing as the U.S. Navy pilot of a landing craft (LCI? can't remember)on Omaha Beach no less. Anyway according to this vet, they took a few rounds from an 88 and the boat sank with heavy casualties. He survived and showed up on the beach, where the beachmaster yelled at him and told him to get the hell out of the way. He was also at Sicily in '43 and recalled vivdly the Navy ships mistakenly firing on the US gliders and transports. Nearly brought him to tears just talking about it.



ChrisF -> (12/7/2000 8:39:00 AM)

Oops! I almost forgot...I also met a retired Marine who had been at "Frozen Chosin". What a fascinating guy and good story teller. He was driving a taxi taking me from Logan Airport to my house after a business trip. He recounted the whole experience for me - he was still going on when we got to my house and I didn't want to leave the cab! He credits the US Air Force with his continued existence on this planet....said they all would have died without them.



marklaker -> (12/7/2000 10:35:00 AM)

While stationed in Germany during the early 80's, I discovered my landlord had served with Von Paulus' 6th Army at Stalingrad. He was captured and spent 10 years in a Russian prisoner of war camp. Though he was a little worse for the wear as a result of his internment, he never tired of discussing his experiences. During one late night imbibe, he pulled out an old cigar box and produced a couple medals and faded photographs. His most prized possession, however, was a brittle, dog-eared copy of Mein Kampf. It was quite an evening! ------------------



chief -> (12/7/2000 12:22:00 PM)

A very good shipmate of mine once related this story about an episode in/above the North Atlantic in the 40's.....He was a radio operator in a Catalina flying boat flying ASW Patrols in the Winter in the vicinity of Iceland..A surface contact was made on Radar and the aircraft immediately went to investigate, much to the crews surprise the contact was a German U-Boat, on the surface, and in daylight....An aircrews dream setup.....They commenced their approach and were further surprised to find the sub crew was trying to get the ice off their AA weapons (MGs I suspect). As they closed on the target they presumed an easy kill, but when they tried to launch their wing stores (bombs/depth charges) the would not release due to icing....They made many passes, and the U-boat could not return fire, after a time both units passed stern to bow and saluted each other, and went back to whatever home port each had. He often wondered if that crew ever made it home???? I know the story is not about tanks but it came from this period and I taught I'd share same in his memory. ------------------ Sm:):)th Sailing...chief



GrinningDwarf -> (12/7/2000 1:10:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisF: You can probably find out a lot about him from NARA (National Archives and Records Administration).
Thanks for the NARA tip, but I'm already familiar with them. I had two ancestors who fought in Massachusetts regiments in the Civil War. One was in the 33rd MVI and was at Chancellorsville and Gettysburg. His son was in the 53rd MVI and was on the siege of Port Hudson, La. I'm hesitant about doing NARA research behind the back of a living person, though. Doesn't feel right to me, I guess. And thanks for your kind words. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



JNL -> (12/7/2000 2:37:00 PM)

Lots of vets refuse to talk about their experiences - who can blame them? I just recently met a man who served with the Americal Div on Guadalcanal. He had a picture hanging on his office wall of his platoon when they finished training or graduated from something. I took him to lunch and asked him about his time on the island. He said that most of the men in the picture never left the island. He simply stated that it was a horrible place that if he could forget what happened to him and his friends he would be a happier man. I never brought up the subject again. My father was badly wounded in Korea. His company was overrun by the CCF near the Imjin River (near as I get out of him). I got my middle name from the man who carried my Dad through enemy fire to rescue him. The only reason I know any of this is because I used to get teased in school about my middle name. My Dad was forced to tell me how I got it to keep me from beating my classmates or dropping out of elementary school. To this day he will not talk about his experiences. Can't say I blame him. Some men feel the best way to deal with what happened is to let it out - others will take it to the grave with them.



JNL -> (12/7/2000 4:32:00 PM)

Found this on CNN.Com http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/memories/ Looks like they are trying to put together a web site related to WWII. A little off topic - but close. Anyway - it may become an intresting site to visit if you want some first hand accounts of life during this time.



stinkf -> (12/7/2000 8:39:00 PM)

I have a story about my grandfather (this one happened during the Continuation War in Finland). He passed away when I was about 10 and didn't talk with him about the war so I am not sure if this is actually true, my brother says it is so here it comes: My granddad was on guard duty with some other soldiers when they spotted a parashooter coming down near their post. They went to check if the para was friend or foe and found out that he didn't speak any Finnish at all so they shot him thinking he was a Soviet. The guy they shot was actually a German fighter pilot whose plane was shot down. I guess the moral of this story is how important education is... So I have to state again that I am not sure if the story is true or if this is just one of "urban legends" that are told of the wartimes.



Kenny B -> (12/10/2000 5:23:00 PM)

My brother met a former SS German officer who fought along side Pieper in the Ardenne battle.I have actually seen his name published in books about the Ardenne battle. Incredible ! He recalled an incident in which he & his driver got strafed whilst travelling by schimmwagon in midstream across a river .His driver was killed but he survived.I believe his panther is shown in well known German newsreel footage of the Ardenne battle He had other stories but I won't go into detail.I do not know how he survived but he certainly has the scars( including one from a Russian sniper who wounded him when he stuck his head out out his panther's turret.



Wild Bill -> (12/11/2000 6:40:00 AM)

Last night on the History Channel, living vets of Pearl Harbor and the AFG (Flying Tigers) were interviewed. They were all in their 80s+ I was impressed with Marine Sgt Finn, Medal of Honor winner at Pearl, now 92 years old. Lamentably, within the next 10-15 years there probably will be no more of WW2 vets of any country. How sad. When I was a tyke of about 7, I remember meeting 3 Civil War Vets (Confederacy) at the Old Soldiers Home in Atlanta. They were all 100+. It was 1945. What an honor! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Randy -> (12/11/2000 11:31:00 AM)

I saw a neat piece on ABC News tonight. A group of vets (average age is 74) has purchased an ex-Navy WWII LST from the Greek Navy headed for the scrap yard!! They are in the process of making it sea worthy, sail it to Alabama and make it a WWII Memorial. They themselves are going to sail it! With guts like that, no wonder they made it through the Depression, and WWII! Truly the Greatest Generation. We owe them so much we'll never know. Semper Fi Randy



AmmoSgt -> (12/14/2000 12:34:00 PM)

this thread begs for this story.. i was stationed in germany several times, my first tour was with the 59th Bde SASCOM in support of the German 3rd Corp. i guess it was about 1973 when i along with the other Officers and NCO's were invited to a party aparently a tradition in the Bundeswher to celibrate a soldiers 30th aniversery of service (hint you do the math, at the time i was clueless). The Guest of Honor was our Support Battalions SGM a very dour gray unasuming man that I didn't think of as anything too special since I had had to "Help" him qualify with the M-16 just a couple of weeks before by occasionaly using the range buttons to drop the targets for him to score ( at my CO's suggestion). We were advised to secure rides as there would be some drinking involved , since the custom was to toast each award or medal a soldier had recieved in service with a beer . Knowing that the Bundeswher didn't give out medals i should have taken the hint,,, but i was young and nieve. I spoke enough german by then to get the gist of what was going on and the General reading of the General Proclimation of 30 years loyal and good service to His country was pretty much what i expected all very Bundswher and offical..... Then the Beersteins came out ...... OK i will do the math for ya 30 years in 1973 Bundswher started in 1950 thats only 23 years 1939 Poland 2 medals 2 prost X's 1941 Russia more medals more beer 1942 Russia still more medals more beer 1943 Italy more medals more beer 1944 2 Iron crosses ( aparently ya got an Iron Cross for taking out 4 tanks sorta like an Ace ) France 1945 i was told the next day I had 18 beers when i passed out. I was right the Bundswher doesn't give out medals I have met many WW2 vets in my day even served with a few in the late 60's early 70's Sometimes ya had to look hard at the fruitsalad to see an odd unusual ribbon on their class A's or maybe be sharp enough to spot the odd unit or squadron patch on a tattered baseball cap the service stripes on the sleave God Bless Them All



Greg McCarty -> (12/17/2000 10:36:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by JNL: I had a landlord back in the early '80s. He was a little strange but the rent was cheap and if I had a problem with the house he would pop right over and fix it. Whenever he came over to work on something - he always would sit himself down at our piano and play (badly) and sing (worse). He came over one Saturday to work on the plumbing and I had all my Squad Leader boards out on the dining room table playing one of the Market Garden scenarios. Bob looks down and the boards and says "Hey - that looks a little like Nijmegen." So I look and him and ask "You know a little about WWII?". He looks me right in the eyes and says "Nah - don't like reading about that stuff. Besides I jumped there." My jaw dropped. Turned out he was with the 101st. Jumped at Normandy and Operation Market Garden. Wounded in Holland and spent the rest of the war in a hospital. He had some great stories. We ended up moving out about a year later - he passed on around 1993 or so. He never did learn to play the piano very well. I do miss his singing though. This is a great thread - who else has stumbled on a vet?
Me. I've rarely told this story, because few outside this forum seem that interested. I grew up in the 1950s. Back then, veterans were all over the place; my mom dated people (she was devorced by then) many of whom were vets. Like the guy, (Healy) who had a vivid scar on his left hand. I was eight then, and was reading books on WWII as fast as I could get my hands on them. "whats that scar from?" I asked. A Japanese soldier had charged him with a fixed bayonet somewhere in the Pacific. So he grabbed the bayonet with one hand in an effort to divert the blade. Evidently the Japanese soldier had not survived the encounter. But the real story was the family that lived above us in a duplex between 1956 and 1959. There were two boys, just a bit older than I who lived there, and with whom I played constantly during that period. One day I noticed a picture on the mantle of their dad. Nothing unusual; but he was wearing an officers uniform and standing next to what was obviously an ME 109 --complete with swastika on the tail. Next to the photo on the mantle was a cerimonial dagger; here again, with swastika. Now... these folks were Hungarian! Spoke that language in the house all the time. I asked the boys about all this. Here's how it went: Their father Charles, had been a pilot in the Hungarian Air Force, and had spent most of the war on the Russion front, presumably shooting at Yaks. Sometime around 1944/45 when things stated looking a bit grim for Hungary and Rumania, Charlie was fighting on the ground. The Hungarian Air Force by that time probably decimated. The details get fuzzy at this point, but Charlie sees the handwriting on the wall and makes arrangements for his wife and one son to get out of Europe down through Greece. Don't ask me how. He was one lucky son of a gun. During this process Charlie was still behind, fighting off Russians while the rest of the family spent some time in Austria. It was here the second son, Attila was born. At some point Charlie was reunited with them and they got out though Greece to America. I have read stories about the U.S. government being involved in this kind of emigration in the aftermath of the war. But I can only guess at what went on. The last time I saw any of them was in 1961, when I ran into Attila who told me they had bought a little house in another part of town. The two boys were well educated, and Charlie saw to it that they were sent to Catholic Military High school. (St Thomas) in our town. I can only imagine what a wealth of information that man was, but I was only eight. It took me years of thought and maturity to realize what their situation represented. ------------------ Greg. 37 mill AA... can suddenly ruin your day.



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