Pauls and Sierans (Full Version)

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Icedawg -> Pauls and Sierans (8/30/2010 4:28:32 PM)

I asked this question in another thread but haven't gotten any response yet (lots of views, but no input). So, I'll try again.

Are the Japanese float DB's and float TB's exempt from the airfield size 2 restriction on offensive missions? The manual states that aircraft can only fly offensive missions from a level 2 or greater airfield. However, it would stand to reason that these offensive float planes should be exempt from this rule. Isn't the ability to operate off of undeveloped beaches one of the main advantages of float planes in general?

I'm asking because I'm getting ready to start a game and I am on the fence with regard to what I should do with the Paul and Sieran factories. If they can fly offensive missions from a level 0 or 1 airfield, then I am going to produce them. If they can't, they seem pretty useless to me and I will convert these factories to some other aircraft type.

If any Japanese player who has gotten to mid/late 1944 can do a little test for me to answer this question I would really appreciate it.



herwin -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (8/30/2010 6:49:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

I asked this question in another thread but haven't gotten any response yet (lots of views, but no input). So, I'll try again.

Are the Japanese float DB's and float TB's exempt from the airfield size 2 restriction on offensive missions? The manual states that aircraft can only fly offensive missions from a level 2 or greater airfield. However, it would stand to reason that these offensive float planes should be exempt from this rule. Isn't the ability to operate off of undeveloped beaches one of the main advantages of float planes in general?

I'm asking because I'm getting ready to start a game and I am on the fence with regard to what I should do with the Paul and Sieran factories. If they can fly offensive missions from a level 0 or 1 airfield, then I am going to produce them. If they can't, they seem pretty useless to me and I will convert these factories to some other aircraft type.

If any Japanese player who has gotten to mid/late 1944 can do a little test for me to answer this question I would really appreciate it.


The game allows you to arm PBYs with torpedoes...



Icedawg -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (8/30/2010 9:41:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

The game allows you to arm PBYs with torpedoes...



I know you can arm them with torpedoes and conduct naval search, but can you conduct offensive missions (ie: Naval Attack) using PBYs out of size 0 airfields?



topeverest -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (8/30/2010 9:41:45 PM)

Nix the factories IMHO. Use them for needed core airframe types. Those two airframes will never be decisive due to quality of AF and number of units that can become it.



Icedawg -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (8/31/2010 12:16:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Nix the factories IMHO. Use them for needed core airframe types. Those two airframes will never be decisive due to quality of AF and number of units that can become it.


I'm leaning this way as these are pretty lousy aircraft (based on speed, manueverability and range). However, IF they can be used for naval attack missions at level 0 or 1 airfields, then they become useful. This ability would make the allies provide air cover for convoys passing near size 0 and size 1 airfields (more ops losses to valuable CV/CVL/CVE fighter squadrons) or make convoys without air cover take an alternate/longer route to get to their destination (greater fuel consumption).

But this all hinges on whether or not they can fly naval attack missions out of undeveloped bases. Since I haven't gotten a definitive answer, I'm still up in the air.



castor troy -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (8/31/2010 1:03:21 PM)

you are aware that you would also need an air HQ for them to operate with torps, aren´t you? I guess as long as you´ve got an air HQ in range you can also have them fly from a dot base with torps but who would place an air HQ somewhere near a dot base in the middle of the Pacific just to see a couple of floatplanes attack with torps?



Icedawg -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (8/31/2010 1:58:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

you are aware that you would also need an air HQ for them to operate with torps, aren´t you? I guess as long as you´ve got an air HQ in range you can also have them fly from a dot base with torps but who would place an air HQ somewhere near a dot base in the middle of the Pacific just to see a couple of floatplanes attack with torps?


Yes, I am aware of the HQ requirement. Even without the HQ though, they could still use bombs instead (and the Pauls are DBs anyway).

I'm not sure the HQ would waive the level 2 airfield requirement though. If it did, then by the same logic, Kates could fly naval attack missions out of level 1 airfields (and I'm pretty sure they can't).





Icedawg -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/10/2011 5:42:45 PM)

Just thought I'd bump this thread and add a discovery I made the other day that may be relevant to my yet unanswered question here.

A couple of days ago, I figured I'd try to use Rufes to sweep out of a size 0 airfield. Lo and behold, it worked. Since this floatplane is exempt from the "airfield size 2 requirement" for offensive missions, shouldn't other floatplanes be exempt as well? Shouldn't this mean that Pauls and Seirans can fly naval attack out of level 0 airfields?

Hopefully someone who has actually made it to 1944 or so can run a test to confirm this. I'm really interested in getting this whole question answered as I see no use for these planes unless they can fly from undeveloped airfields. (If I need a naval dive or torpedo bomber, the Judys and Jills are otherwise superior.) A definitive answer will let me make the decision to produce (or not produce) these planes.



Lameduck -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/10/2011 8:14:28 PM)

I may have this wrong, but don't float planes use the port size of the base instead of the AF size?



PresterJohn001 -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/10/2011 8:34:39 PM)

I've had Jakes conduct Naval Attacks from a size 0 airfield (size 0 port as well)



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/10/2011 8:42:36 PM)

You can do this with nothing there right? I mean, the planes will need service from AV Support to continue flying, but no Naval HQ is needed to carry bombs right?



PresterJohn001 -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/10/2011 9:13:56 PM)

I was using a JNAF or JAAF (don't recall which) unit for air support but no naval hq. I assume if there was a naval hq in range torps would be usable.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/10/2011 11:00:46 PM)

I would fire up Downfall H2H and give it a test. There are units with both aircraft types available in the scen and you can't move in the Home Islands area without tripping over an Air HQ.



rader -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/11/2011 1:45:50 AM)

You get a few Paul units, but do you actually get ANY Seiran units other than the couple of I-400 sub units? (or units that can upgrade to Seirans?)




Fallschirmjager -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/11/2011 2:28:46 AM)

The editor is easy to use...
I am not trying to give a Terminus like answer here. But you could easily spend 15 minutes in the editor and answer this question and not have to rely on waiting for an answer.



Icedawg -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/11/2011 6:38:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

The editor is easy to use...I am not trying to give a Terminus like answer here. But you could easily spend 15 minutes in the editor and answer this question and not have to rely on waiting for an answer.


To someone with a degree in computer science perhaps.

I don't even go close to the editor anymore. I tried to do some changes a couple of times, but it just made my head spin.

I am a computer "gamer", but not a computer "person". Just like I am the owner/driver of my car, not a mechanic. I know how to operate the ignition, clutch, brake, accelerator, radio and power locks/windows. Don't ask me to identify a carburetor, air filter, distributor cap, spark plug or any of those other mysterious parts operating under the hood!

With my computer, I know where the button to turn it on is, how to open and use basic programs and how to shut the beast down. That's it.



Icedawg -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/11/2011 6:39:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I would fire up Downfall H2H and give it a test. There are units with both aircraft types available in the scen and you can't move in the Home Islands area without tripping over an Air HQ.



Hey, this is a great idea. I guess I wasn't thinking about the new scenarios added with the patches a while back. Thanks, I'll try it this weekend.



crsutton -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/11/2011 8:30:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I would fire up Downfall H2H and give it a test. There are units with both aircraft types available in the scen and you can't move in the Home Islands area without tripping over an Air HQ.



Hey, this is a great idea. I guess I wasn't thinking about the new scenarios added with the patches a while back. Thanks, I'll try it this weekend.

Cats will attack with bombs from any dot hex where they are supported and will use torpedos if the HQ is in range.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/12/2011 12:15:14 AM)

So will Mavis and Emily.

These three are all Patrol types. Pauls are however of type "Dive Bomber" with a subsidiary "float-equipped" and Seirans are "Torpedo Bomber" with the same sub-designation. So it's not the same and why I think a simple test is the best thing to do :-)



Bradley7735 -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/12/2011 6:57:04 AM)

I just tested Pauls and Sierans in my sandbox scenario. I had 36 of each on naval attack. I had an allied AK task force 1 hex from Bikini. I had a base force to provide AV support. Both plane types launched and hit the AK's with bombs. I did not test with an HQ to see if torpedoes would launch.

I could only test from a level 1 air field. I tried to do it with a dot base, but I could not get the air groups to show up at the base. They only showed up if the air field was level 1.



hunchback77 -> RE: Pauls and Sierans (2/12/2011 6:04:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

I just tested Pauls and Sierans in my sandbox scenario. I had 36 of each on naval attack. I had an allied AK task force 1 hex from Bikini. I had a base force to provide AV support. Both plane types launched and hit the AK's with bombs. I did not test with an HQ to see if torpedoes would launch.

I could only test from a level 1 air field. I tried to do it with a dot base, but I could not get the air groups to show up at the base. They only showed up if the air field was level 1.


Thank you Bradley. Good to know for later in the game.



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