Question about research... (Full Version)

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Imm -> Question about research... (9/15/2010 1:05:51 AM)

I do well in most other 4x RTS type games, but there's still one part that escapes me in this. Research; can someone explain it to me like you would to a toddler? So there's maximum potential and then the output. Does this mean I have to build whatever specific research station until that number is as close to the potential as possible? I have to resort to stealing tech later on because I lag so far behind in it.

I guess what I'm really asking is, how do I make my output match my potential? If I build more research stations it doesn't really raise the output.



Krob -> RE: Question about research... (9/15/2010 1:29:33 AM)

Best I can tell: Your actual research totals up to the empire potential in the upper left, whereas the maximum potential is the amount of research your stations can actually dish out. I, like many others, just make a super research station....At the start, you can cram about 8 of each into one station if you put some defenses on it. If you drop it near a black hole, it gets you a potential of about 250 in each category, which would mean you'd need an empire potential of roughly 1000 to need a second station.
Later on, you might get colonies that double your effect in certain fields; those seem to only count their undoubled rating towards the empire potential (which is as it should be).



K



Imm -> RE: Question about research... (9/15/2010 1:51:24 AM)

Hmm, okay. So by massing 8 stations you mean 8 of each (i.e. weapons, energy, etc.) right?



Foraven -> RE: Question about research... (9/15/2010 4:26:18 AM)

Actual research increase as your Empire strategic value increase. As for massing station : design a starbase with all research labs on it; it's less expensive to have and more efficient. The only issue with them though is they can't be upgraded; you have to scrap and rebuild them each time you want to update them.

I personally build several research stations regardless. In my current game, my research output is about half my maximum and all my spaceports have research labs on them, clearly beat the output of a single mega research starbase. Of course, in that game my empire has over 100 colonies...



WoodMan -> RE: Question about research... (9/15/2010 12:36:51 PM)

There are many ways to deal with research, but I think you are asking what exactly all the stuff on the screen means, so see below [;)]





[image]local://upfiles/35265/FEE02631C85D44DBA7F7FA0F9A481938.jpg[/image]



Imm -> RE: Question about research... (9/16/2010 4:04:51 AM)

Ahhh, thanks guys. Makes much more sense now. [&o]

That picture really helps too, thanks. I finally played a game where I got a decent amount of research from non-stealing tech.



Foraven -> RE: Question about research... (9/16/2010 4:51:34 AM)

Alright, seem i learned something from this too... Thanks Woodman.



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Question about research... (9/16/2010 6:01:42 AM)

Excellent illustration and narrative Woodman. Helps us noobs greatly! [&o]




the1sean -> RE: Question about research... (9/16/2010 2:37:12 PM)

Very well done woodman. I cant wait until they come out with the "Modder's Patch" and, amongst other things, we can edit the Galactopedia with cool information breakdowns and info!



WoodMan -> RE: Question about research... (9/16/2010 3:03:32 PM)

No prob glad to help [;)] I think all that is explained in one of the tutorials, but without the picture, I can't remember its been long since I did them.

A couple of things I forgot to mention in the diagram but I'm sure are already known by most players anyway

To crash Research costs a fixed sum of money, you get the option to turn down the crash research after you have seen the cost, for a long time I didn't realise this because first there is a window that tells you it will cost, but doesn't tell you how much, I feared losing all my cash so always said no, but if you click yes it then tells you the amount and you get a chance to say no again [:D]

and the total Empire potential in the top left is not only decided by the Empire population, as shown government style and any race bonus also make a difference, but I'm also pretty sure the intelligence of your race makes a difference too.  So the above picture has quite a good amount because Humans get a 15% bonus and Republic gets a 25% bonus and also Humans are Quite Intelligent, which I think gives them more than for example the Teekan who are Stupid, don't get a bonus for Merch Guild and also don't have a race bonus for Research like Humans either [;)]

Edit: Confirmed that Intelligence does affect the Research, its mentioned in the old Introduction to Alien Races thread.



the1sean -> RE: Question about research... (9/16/2010 4:29:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

No prob glad to help [;)] I think all that is explained in one of the tutorials, but without the picture, I can't remember its been long since I did them.


It is all explained, but info is split up between the galactopedia and the pdf manual, if I remember correctly. Your graphic is much clear than just plain text in my opinion [:)]



b0mber -> RE: Question about research... (9/17/2010 3:50:51 PM)

I haven't understood very well the purple bars explanation. AFAIK if you have researched a component wich requires 100k and now the new component requires 180k, the the maximun value that the purple bar is going to reach is the difference between them, in this case 80k. When there are 40k investigated towards the new component it will be at the middle.

If the new component needs 150k for example, and you have researched 40k the bar is going to be almost at the end.

by3z!



WoodMan -> RE: Question about research... (9/17/2010 6:21:23 PM)

When you get a new component from Research the purple bar goes back to the far left.  It's simply a % indicator, the number I only assume is what I mentioned above, it seems this way from my experience, but I could be wrong.



the1sean -> RE: Question about research... (9/17/2010 7:58:05 PM)

AFAIK you are correct, Woodman.



b0mber -> RE: Question about research... (9/18/2010 2:27:32 PM)

I don't want to sound tedious, I wish I had an explanation like your image when I started to play the game. The galactopedia doesn't explain very well the research screen and you have done a good work.

It's just the sentence "If it was a component that required less research the bar would still be at the same place..." which I don't agree with.

If your current component is Tech: 100k,
your next component is Tech: 200k,
and you have researched 50k towards the next component,
the number is going to be 50k
and the purple bar is going to be exactly at the middle, 50%.


If your current component is Tech: 100k,
your next component is Tech: 160k,
and you have researched 50k towards the next component,
the number is going to be 50k
but the purple bar is going to be almost at the end, 83%.

So if a component requires less research the bar is not going to be at the same place.


"...but the number would be smaller to indicate that less actual research had been used here"

The number is directly how much research have been done from your current component towards the new one. The maximum this number can reach is the diference between them (New Tech:'Value' - Current Tech:'Value'), which is 100% of the purple bar.


by3z!



the1sean -> RE: Question about research... (9/19/2010 12:23:47 PM)

Yeah, I hear you b0mber! Again, I cant wait until we can mod the galactopedia (and everything else for that matter).

You have to give them a little credit, though, they did TRY to give a decent explanation (at least more than most games). There is just SO MUCH to cover in Distant Worlds!



WoodMan -> RE: Question about research... (9/20/2010 2:16:33 PM)

So to put it simply what you mean B0mber is that the purple bar lets you know how close you are to the next tech in %.  So in the above picture I have done 70% of the Research required for the Enhanced Recreation Center RC-200.  This bar resets all the way to the left once you aquire a new component and starts again for the next component.

The white number, in this case 40k is how much Research I have done in the Habitation category in total not for the Enhanced Recreation Center RC-200 alone.

Is that what you mean? 



b0mber -> RE: Question about research... (9/21/2010 12:32:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

So to put it simply what you mean B0mber is that the purple bar lets you know how close you are to the next tech in %. So in the above picture I have done 70% of the Research required for the Enhanced Recreation Center RC-200. This bar resets all the way to the left once you aquire a new component and starts again for the next component.



Yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

The white number, in this case 40k is how much Research I have done in the Habitation category in total not for the Enhanced Recreation Center RC-200 alone.



Is set to zero every time you investigate a new component.

At your image Proton Thruster ZX-3 and Thrust Vector J3 (70k) are researched at Engine category, now heading to Quantum Engine. However the number is zero and it is going to increase until it reaches 15k. When the number is 10k the bar will be at 66%


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

Yeah, I hear you b0mber! Again, I cant wait until we can mod the galactopedia (and everything else for that matter).

You have to give them a little credit, though, they did TRY to give a decent explanation (at least more than most games). There is just SO MUCH to cover in Distant Worlds!



It wasn't my intention to criticize the galactopedia I just used it to state that WoodMan's image was good.


by3z!



the1sean -> RE: Question about research... (9/22/2010 2:29:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: b0mber

quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

Yeah, I hear you b0mber! Again, I cant wait until we can mod the galactopedia (and everything else for that matter).

You have to give them a little credit, though, they did TRY to give a decent explanation (at least more than most games). There is just SO MUCH to cover in Distant Worlds!



It wasn't my intention to criticize the galactopedia I just used it to state that WoodMan's image was good.


by3z!


Oh, I totally understand. I just cant wait to see how the community will mod and spruce up the galactopedia :)



BK6583 -> RE: Question about research... (10/4/2010 10:19:16 PM)

OK I don't know how to save a screen picture and post it here. Reference the 9/15/2010 post with the research picture and a description of what it means, here's what I'm not getting:

My "Total Empire Potential" is 601. Yet if I add the four actual output numbers they exceed 601. Also, I have "Maximum Potentials" of over 700 in each category, yet even though I've got a ton of reserach stations built where each column now totals at leat 400 each the numbers of "Actual Output" are around 240, 230, (I've colonized an energy and high nexus planet respectively) and just 180 and 190 from left to right. I'm missing something here.



WoodMan -> RE: Question about research... (10/5/2010 12:37:34 PM)

I don't think your missing much, it sounds to me like the reason the Actual Outputs are not going higher is because you have already reached the Total Empire Potential like you mentioned.  The reason you have slightly more than your Total Empire Potential I have to admit I don't know, but my guess is its something to do with some bonus from a ruin or something.



Aures -> RE: Question about research... (10/6/2010 6:45:23 AM)

A racial or government research bonus is applied to your total Empire potential. Try starting as a technocracy and then immediately have a revolution to see this effect. The racial bonus can be demonstrated to work in the same way, but it is slightly harder to make a good comparison because of the non-linear way the total empire potential grows with population.

A ruin research bonus is completely different. It affects the calculation that turns your Maximum Potential into your Actual Output. Here is a table I just made for one of my games (Sorry about the full stops, this BB ignores more than one space in a row and tab characters. Let me know if it is misaligned or hard to read for you):

Energy.......HighTech....Industrial...Weapons
1488..........1584..........1224..........1344..........measured Maximum Potential
1488..........1584..........1224..........1344..........calculated Maximum Potential
693............369............570............313............measured Actual Output
693.3447...369.0383...570.3319...313.1234...calculated Actual Output

1314..........measured Total Empire Potential
1945..........measured Total Actual Output
1945.838...calculated Total Actual Output

The measured Maximum Potential, measured Actual Output and measured Total Empire Potential are the appropriate values read directly off my research screen. The calculated Maximum Potential is what I get when I add up all of the values in all of my individual research stations, included to demonstrate it is the same as the measured Maximum Potential. The calculated Actual Output is what I get when I run the Maximum Potential through the formula I discuss later. The measured Total Actual Output is what I get when I add up all the values in the measured Actual Output. The calculated Total Actual Output is what I get when I add up all the values in the calculated Actual Output.

The formula I use to turn the Maximum Potential into the Actual Output for each category is:
Actual Output= Maximum Potential * bonus factor / measured Total Actual Output

Where the bonus factor is 1 if you do not have the planet with the appropriate research bonus ruin and 2 if you do. I have the Akurian Industrial Workshop (empire wide 100% industrial research bonus) and the Energy Engineering Facility (empire wide 100% energy research bonus) so my bonus factor is 2 for Industrial/Energy and 1 for HighTech/Weapons. As you can see the numbers work out as close as can be expected, there are probably other circumstances where rounding means the numbers might be off by a k or two.

BK6583, if you run your numbers through the above formula you should find that solves the discrepancy.

If you get all of the research bonus ruins your Actual Output will be doubled. Considering you have to more than double your population to double your stated Total Empire Potential (at least in big empires) and build the research facilities to actually do the research, colonising planets with research bonus ruins looks like a good idea in most circumstances.



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