Kampfgruppe Knaust (Full Version)

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Af1352pasha -> Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/26/2010 3:08:56 PM)

For which ones who interested on actual organization of German on battle of Arnhem there is a sample shown Kampfgruppe Knaust in detail for F-pool modding.The historical overview could be found in :
http://www.defendingarnhem.com/Kampfknaust.htm
http://www.defendingarnhem.com/schpzkphummel.htm

It exactly included a combination of schwere panzer Hummel and other elements.



Sapa -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/26/2010 4:51:16 PM)

Thanks for the info, it would be nice to have these Tigers in the game....



Tejszd -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/26/2010 5:56:38 PM)

They might be there Sapa....

Sept. 19 - Out of the 14 Tigers in Schwere Panzer Kompanie 'Hummel' only two made it to Arnhem and they were assigned to Kampfgruppe 'Brinkmann' (this BG is in the game).

Sept. 20 - The other 12 Tiger's that had now reached Arnhem were attached to Kampfgruppe 'Knaust'(this BG is in the game).


Edit:
KG Brinkmann - no Tiger I tanks in the fpool, 2 is probably too few when you reduce quantities for CC
KG Knaust - has Tiger I tanks in the fpool



Sapa -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/27/2010 11:16:59 AM)

Only found one Tiger I in the Knaust battlegroup on difficult recruit[&:]

/Mats



berndn -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/27/2010 11:51:43 AM)

I don't like that to be able to use some of the historic battle units I had to use recruit. Would make more sense to me to have them in a right amount of units on Elite and maybe to up the numbers for more easier levels.
This way for H2H bothe sides on Elite would have the chance to see them and for playing against the AI Elite vs Recruit the AI would get a lot of those which would make it interesting. At least IMO [8D]



Sapa -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/27/2010 3:26:07 PM)

I really would like to see this game modded to historical numbers of units for all difficulties...then it will be a winner!

"Attack the corridor and cut the supply lines for XXX Corps" with what?[:-]



7A_Woulf -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/27/2010 4:04:37 PM)

Shouldn't 'Line' be historical numbers [&:]



Tejszd -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/28/2010 3:10:31 AM)

Line is usually historical but the actual number of men, tanks and vehicles is usually not directly entered in CC.

Here is an example;
Gaurds Armoured Division (which is only 1 of the multiple divisions that made up XXX Corps) had 14,964 men and 343 tanks. If you divide by 5 to use in CC would still give you approximately 3,000 men and 69 tanks for 1 division in the game....



7A_Woulf -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/28/2010 9:52:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tejszd

Here is an example;
Gaurds Armoured Division (which is only 1 of the multiple divisions that made up XXX Corps) had 14,964 men and 343 tanks. If you divide by 5 to use in CC would still give you approximately 3,000 men and 69 tanks for 1 division in the game....



...and then divide that further, since the BG is only the leading elements of that unit. If I remember it right, the FP represent the lead Battalion of a Regimental sizes BG; -Or 1/3 of the BG's force.
That means that KG Brinkmann should have one Tiger I tanks in the fpool and KG Knaust should have 4 Tiger I tanks in the fpool (at least of I'm right about the numbers.)



Tejszd -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/29/2010 2:44:21 AM)

For KG Brinkmann 1 would be generous as there was only ever a total of 2 assigned/joined it.

For KG Knaust 12 joined it.

Looking at KG Knaust fpool the following is what I believe happens;
Turn 17 - King Tiger (type 55) 2 added/available
Turn 27 - King Tiger (type 55) 4 added/available

Looks like the real quantity was divided by 2 so maybe 1 should be added to Brinkmann...



TheReal_Pak40 -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/29/2010 5:07:30 AM)

Just adding my two cents here:

I haven't looked at the force pools for the BGs, but here's what I experienced in the Grand Campaign(Arnhem area) on "line" difficulty as far as armored units are concerned:

1. no tanks whatsoever in the Arnhem area.
2. a few armored cars (some in Grabner's unit which decided to attack in Nijmegen and some in another unit, can't remember which)
3. two Stuh42 assault guns in another unit, which, as far as I can tell, were not even in any TOE in the Arnhem area.

That's it! There were no MkIIIs or MkIVs or Tigers of any variant. I finished the GC on the 21st and I know from sources that at least some of these tanks should have been present in the battle groups before that date. I wiped out every German BG on the map and not one tank in the Arnhem area. It was a sore disappointment since I was expecting tough "historical" battles on the "LINE" difficulty.

Hopefully someone will make a fixed GC.



STIENER -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/29/2010 8:11:50 PM)

i agree........"line" should be historicall numbers. and as Sapa and Pak 40 say, what are the germans supposed to fight with? history tells us that the germans had tanks at arnhem bridge. we shouldnt have to play on recruit to get them. are you guys telling us theres no simple way to get them in the force pools?



Andrew Williams -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/29/2010 10:52:03 PM)

I played through a whole campaign and the only Tanks used were the shermans at Walkenswaard.





STIENER -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/30/2010 1:15:32 AM)

so Andrew.....if i read your reply right, you agree with us??? you played the whole GC and no German heavy tanks came out to play?? or MK 3 and MK 4's???
if so then theres something teribbly wrong here and it would be way cool if it could be fixed ASAP.
do you agree?



xe5 -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (9/30/2010 10:44:37 PM)

At Line difficulty, KG Knaust receives 2x Pz IVH; 1x Pz IIIM; 1x Pz IIIG; 1x Marder III as reinforcements at 0900 Sept 19th. At 1200 Sept 21st KG Knaust receives 1x Pz VIE; 1x Pz VG



STIENER -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 12:11:03 AM)

ok...so at line level can the germans afford to buy any of these tanks without ending up with a force pool of 4 or 5 squads? or is it better to play at green and have a few more points to dabble with??

or....do they actually end up IN there active roster when the BG comes in the game at line level? inquiring minds want to know [8D]



xe5 -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 1:39:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: STIENER
ok...so at line level can the germans afford to buy any of these tanks without ending up with a force pool of 4 or 5 squads?

At Line difficulty Knaust only has 6 slots.

quote:


...or is it better to play at green and have a few more points to dabble with??

If you mean "better" in the sense of "I wants all the pretty panzers my precious", then no, far better for you to play the German side at Recruit difficulty.

quote:

or....do they actually end up IN there active roster when the BG comes in the game at line level

Knaust enters the grand campaign at 1200 on Sept 18th. It has no tanks in its forcepool at that point.

quote:

inquiring minds want to know

Inquiring minds should take the 3 minutes to set up a custom op with Knaust and find out for themselves.

Historical team quantities at Line difficulty?!?
85 tanks per Guards Armored Division BG just so the treadheads can see a dozen Tigers!?!
Damn glad you guys didnt design LSA.



STIENER -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 2:07:28 AM)

OUCH........ive been properly CHASTISED [:-]
sorry for taking an interest. [X(]



Sapa -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 4:26:27 AM)

A what i miss the old Forcepooleditor...[:@]



Sapa -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 4:33:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5

quote:

ORIGINAL: STIENER
ok...so at line level can the germans afford to buy any of these tanks without ending up with a force pool of 4 or 5 squads?

At Line difficulty Knaust only has 6 slots.

quote:


...or is it better to play at green and have a few more points to dabble with??

If you mean "better" in the sense of "I wants all the pretty panzers my precious", then no, far better for you to play the German side at Recruit difficulty.

quote:

or....do they actually end up IN there active roster when the BG comes in the game at line level

Knaust enters the grand campaign at 1200 on Sept 18th. It has no tanks in its forcepool at that point.

quote:

inquiring minds want to know

Inquiring minds should take the 3 minutes to set up a custom op with Knaust and find out for themselves.

Historical team quantities at Line difficulty?!?
85 tanks per Guards Armored Division BG just so the treadheads can see a dozen Tigers!?!
Damn glad you guys didnt design LSA.


Yeeah! Then we probably should have testplayed the game before release....[:-]



TheReal_Pak40 -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 5:00:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5

At Line difficulty, KG Knaust receives 2x Pz IVH; 1x Pz IIIM; 1x Pz IIIG; 1x Marder III as reinforcements at 0900 Sept 19th. At 1200 Sept 21st KG Knaust receives 1x Pz VIE; 1x Pz VG


If this is true then the AI is either choosing not to put these tanks into battle or cannot physically purchase them. Either way, the GC is flawed. Is there a way to tell how many points KG Knaust gets at 0900 Sept 19th?



STIENER -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 7:55:58 AM)

ok....built an OP with KG Knaust and the 506 PZ ABT........its on the 22nd...looked at both BG's on Line and Green.

KG Knaust has all the tanks as above in there force pool but yes Pak 40 id say the AI doesnt have enough pts to buy any tanks.....a tiger is 146 pts and and a panther is 173 pts and a MK 3 M is 100 pts and they are not in the active roster on Line...so must be traded or bought. on green the active roster has more slots and has 1 MK 4 in its active roster. i believe on Line the points availible to buy units is about 60......not near enough to do anything unless you Gut the active roster. so there in lies a major flaw....dont you think?

506 PZ ABT also has all the King tigers it should have? 11 tigers on green with 3 in its active roster and 9 on Line with 3 in its active roster. theres 6 slots in the active roster on both Line and Green. the King tigers are worth 214 pts. on Line the poiints availible to buy units is 138 pts. and on Green 193 pts. there in lies the rub again. the AI doesnt have enough pts to buy anything, and in H2H theres not enough pts to buy another tiger if u lose any. at least thats the way it looks right now.
you cant even gut the BG to get enough pts because you only have 6 slots. perhaps if you merge this BG with another larger BG? that might be benificial?? any ideas here????

so play testers...is there an issue here that might need tweaking? do we need to have a few more points availible in order to get the armour? were you guys able to get a reasonable amount of german tanks into the BG's active rosters???
im reserving judgement for awhile......



Tejszd -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 9:31:20 AM)

Good feedback Stiener!

On Recruit though it is totally different. Created a single battle on the 21st turn 3 with KG Knaust and 506 Pz Abt as the reserve BG and starting as recruit there are lots of points available. KG Knaust 335 and 506 Pz Abt 1103.

Edit: Maybe being on the same map or the exact turn is affecting points???
Edit2: Separating the BG's does not affect the points. The points on the 21st Night for 506 Pz Abt was the same as Turn 3 on Recruit.

[image]local://upfiles/27099/5F5388CF2C7844BBBEF0507CC97EBC7B.jpg[/image]



Tejszd -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/1/2010 10:04:06 AM)

Wonder if the AI is reluctant to remove an active squad to open up a spot for a higher value unit?

Would have to play the GC again and look at the AI BG's during the game to see if it has no points or tons of points but just no spot to put the expensive units? Though the AI tends to lose lots of units so there should be spots free. Anyone actively looking at the AI to see the points available?

Definitely looks like there is big change going from Green to Recruit difficulty: Single battle on 21st Night for 506 Pz Abt;

Difficulty Total (available points + strength which is the value of active units)
Line 1267
Green 1466
Recruit 2217

Edit: If playing the AI you find the game to easy, make sure to set the AI side to Recruit.



STIENER -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/4/2010 1:39:51 AM)

im going to play the GC on Green for sure and see what happens..waiting for the next patch tho.

if anyones interested see my "506 and Merging" thread on tech support.....looking for some info if anyone has any.......



Sapa -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/4/2010 10:39:47 AM)

Played the GC with me and AI as recruit, both as Allies and Germans, total victory with both sides around sep 20. The only heavy armour i have seen is the Panthers attacking the corridor from the east.

Mats



STIENER -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/6/2010 4:34:04 AM)

Sapa
i think playing the AI is a waste of time.......as far as i can figure the AI will not update its active forcepool with anything...so you probably wont see any tanks. but they are in the BG's in the force pools. i also dont think the germans have enought force points to buy most of the tanks.
from what im seeing the germans need to be played on green or recruit in order to have enough force points to buy SOME tanks.

at 214 pts to buy a king tiger .....its going to be slim pickens [ and have that tiger taken out by a FF at 500 to 600 m ] [:(]



topper6 -> RE: Kampfgruppe Knaust (10/6/2010 4:24:35 PM)

I agree, again. The AI does not fill up its spots although there are several points. It rather attack with like 2 platoon leaders, 4 snipers and a riflesquad instead of using it's points to buy new stuff. I hate to go in and "edit opponent" to fill up my competitor the AI. Then it's like playing against yourself. I don't wanna know exactly what i'm opposing. And i'm starting to wonder if the AI has any tactical programming at all. I'm thinking perhaps there is a grid on each map that have different WL's worth different points in acquiring for the AI. And then the AI oftenly goes direct head on for these high-value WL's without even thinking about flanking manouvers in order to flush out the opponent (me). That sucks.

Overall, i'm getting more and more disappointed at this release. Spent 350 sek on this re-release, which is a lot i my opinion for a game already released. What is wrong with this game/code that can't be fixed? If there are things that cannot be fixed Matrix, then please let me know right now so i don't have to spend more cash on something i hoped and thought could be a great game a long long time ago.



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