Main Thruster Performance (Full Version)

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Aures -> Main Thruster Performance (10/13/2010 1:04:26 PM)

I have been playing around with engines a little. I wanted to check out some things I had read in the forum about diminishing returns with an increasing number of engines. Turns out that is not true (they probably added more thrusters than their reactors could power), speed is simply speed=INT(thrust/size) for both cruise and sprint. Just add up the total thrust of all your engines, divide by the size and round down to the nearest integer. You now have the speed of the design (assuming you have enough reactors to power the thrusters).

For reference here is a list of the thruster stats from the game (1.0.6.0) plus some derived numbers: 
Name			ST	SE	CT	CE	Size	ST/Size	CT/Size	ST/SE	CT/CE
Proton Thruster ZX-3	1000	5	560	2	7	142.86	80	200	280
Quantum Engine		1260	5	640	2	9	140	71.11	252	320
Proton Thruster ZX-6	1230	7	620	3	7	175.71	88.57	175.71	206.67
Acceleros Engine GT60	1500	7	720	3	9	166.67	80	214.29	240
Quantum Engine RX	1440	6	750	2	8	180	93.75	240	375
Vortex Engine TX2	1630	5	950	3	9	181.11	105.56	326	316.67
Acceleros Engine GT140	1760	5	860	2	8	220	107.5	352	430
Vortex Engine TX6	1840	4	1000	2	8	230	125	460	500
Starburner XX-12	1880	7	1180	4	8	235	147.5	268.57	295

ST=Sprint Thrust
SE=Sprint Energy
CT=Cruise Thrust
CE=Cruise Energy
Size=Size of 1 thruster
ST/Size=Sprint Thrust per Size
CT/Size=Cruise Thrust per Size
ST/SE=Sprint Thrust per Sprint Energy
CT/CE=Cruise Thrust per Sprint Energy

Pretty much what you would expect. The thrust per size generally increases while the energy efficiency is more variable. The only surprising thing is that the Acceleros Engine GT60 has a lower sprint thrust per size and cruise thrust per size than the Proton Thruster ZX-6 due to its larger size. It is more energy efficient, but I don't care about that in my designs. I will avoid using the GT60 from now on and stick with the ZX-6 until I get the Quantum Engine RX. The GT60 is not worth it and is now banished from my designs until such time as it is rebalanced to make it competitive.



Foraven -> RE: Main Thruster Performance (10/15/2010 1:21:50 PM)

The game has been made so there is 4 types of designs you can make : balanced, speed, power, efficiency. Each race favor a type of design and the GT60 is meant for energy efficiency. It's not a balance issue, it was meant that way.



Aures -> RE: Main Thruster Performance (10/16/2010 1:31:24 AM)

Yes but every other engine has a higher thrust/size at both cruise and sprint than the one before. The GT60 is the only exception. You can use it if you care about efficiency. But for me like most players thrust/size is really all that matters. I suspect many people have been using the GT60 without realising it is slowing them down.

And note that I didn't say that it should be rebalanced, just that I wouldn't use it again unless it is. That is a simple statement of truth, not a statement about whether I believe there is a balance issue that should be corrected.



Igard -> RE: Main Thruster Performance (10/16/2010 2:25:52 AM)

Thanks for creating this table, Aures. This sort of info will be valuable when we start modding the components.

@Foravan, Does the game really design it's ships based on the race design preference by selecting those components? I've never considered this, although I am aware that each race has 1 of the 4 design schemes. Have you tested this out?

Aures, I think the game needs some work in this area. We should be able to select each component and set it to disregard in future or make obsolete as we do the ship designs. That way when you research the GT60 you can set it to avoid adding it to your designs altogether.



Aures -> RE: Main Thruster Performance (10/16/2010 3:24:30 AM)

Your welcome. Anyone making mods should certainly take the stats I derived into account when designing their systems.

I did a mockup in the thread Improving jump time with a spare hyperdrive of a system that would allow you to mark components obsolete as required. That would allow you to mark the GT60 obsolete and still use the auto-upgrade (though as I said in that post it would also be desirable if you could use completely AI designed ships without them upgrading designs before you mark something obsolete).

I have heard of race preferences affecting designs, but mainly in the area of better vs worse designs. I've never checked to see whether the AI ever designs ships with obsolete components rather than the latest ones. It might just be limited to races using their special race techs (which is easy because they always show up as the latest component for them anyway so there is no need for special logic).



Igard -> RE: Main Thruster Performance (10/16/2010 4:22:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aures

I have heard of race preferences affecting designs, but mainly in the area of better vs worse designs. I've never checked to see whether the AI ever designs ships with obsolete components rather than the latest ones. It might just be limited to races using their special race techs (which is easy because they always show up as the latest component for them anyway so there is no need for special logic).


I always assumed that the design preference of a race was implemented by simply adding more components. So a race with a design preference for power would put more weapons on its ships. I think I'll look into this..

[:D] @ the new sig.



Carewolf -> RE: Main Thruster Performance (10/16/2010 7:39:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aures

Yes but every other engine has a higher thrust/size at both cruise and sprint than the one before. The GT60 is the only exception.

Isn't the first Quantum Engine also an exception? It is a lot more efficient, but slightly slower per size-unit. Actually it makes the GT60 even worse as the first Quantum Engine is also more efficient than GT60.



Foraven -> RE: Main Thruster Performance (10/17/2010 12:56:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

@Foravan, Does the game really design it's ships based on the race design preference by selecting those components? I've never considered this, although I am aware that each race has 1 of the 4 design schemes. Have you tested this out?


I noticed that while editing races so none would start with unique tech. I did not actually test it out though, but that would explain the variety in components. I think it also affect what kind of techs you are more likely to get (if you don't trade to get your techs).



Aures -> RE: Main Thruster Performance (10/17/2010 3:51:36 AM)

Yeah good catch Carewolf, I think I did notice that when I was putting the table together but forget about it by the time I started the post (they were done at pretty different times). Not really worth upgrading to either imho.



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