How to use an FO unit

How to use an FO unit (Full Version)

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ThomasKN -> How to use an FO unit (8/19/2002 12:01:52 PM)
Dear all... Until now, I'm quite confused as how to use an Forward observer unit... anybody here knows how to use an FO Unit ? should I move it forward or should I keep it behind ? rgds

Warrior -> (8/19/2002 5:43:29 PM)
Having the FO in direct Line of Sight with the intended target would seem to make sense, but I've never found it made a difference. So, I keep my FO's well back where they won't get destroyed. IMO, they're too valuable to risk.

Hades -> (8/19/2002 7:43:27 PM)
When you have line of sight of your target with a FO, the arty fire has a +50% chance of hitting the target and a +50% chance of doing damage. Also line of sight makes airstrikes more likely to hit a Tiger instead of your Shermans:mad: :mad: . FOs also decrease the amount of time it takes between you calling it in and it fires. For more on arty read Arty Mangment TOT by CaptPixel http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22905

tracer -> (8/19/2002 10:02:45 PM)
I feel the biggest advantage of having an FO unit is that your arty arrival time is much faster. If its a small battle, I usually only buy one and 'keep him safe' (put him in tress/rough and set range to zero) like REMF mentioned. But if I have enough points to buy a second I'll put him in a forward position where he has a wide LOS since, IMO, Hades observation is true. Alot of the accuracy and arrival delay depends on the experience of the FO [I]and[/I] the unit firing.

Bing -> (8/19/2002 10:24:28 PM)
If the FO has a fairly high rating, say 75 and up, his location makes absolutely no difference. I have proved that time and again. Put him in the third sub-basement and run a test - compare results with supposed LOS and see what happens. ALL fire improves if the target hex is maintained from turn to turn, it has nothing to do with LOS. You will get the same pattern no matter who or what or where your FO is on the board. The key is the FO rating: Below 70 or so, nothing is going to help you. Bing

Frank W. -> (8/19/2002 10:28:37 PM)
seems to make sense in my opinion. just noticed that the russian mortars in the russian steel camp, are very acurate with a med. exp. FO without any LOS to the target. makes me some kind of wondering, russian arty so good in early time of the war.... [QUOTE]Originally posted by Bing [B]If the FO has a fairly high rating, say 75 and up, his location makes absolutely no difference. I have proved that time and again. Put him in the third sub-basement and run a test - compare results with supposed LOS and see what happens. ALL fire improves if the target hex is maintained from turn to turn, it has nothing to do with LOS. You will get the same pattern no matter who or what or where your FO is on the board. The key is the FO rating: Below 70 or so, nothing is going to help you. Bing [/B][/QUOTE]

Bing -> (8/19/2002 10:41:33 PM)
Mortars from 120mm and up are lethal in the game, there is a reason for agreeing not to use too many of them in H2H games. But it also depends upon the intentions of the designer. Ditto for rockets. Performance ratings of all kinds are usually set lower for Soviet units, I have found this is so even when the troops are elite, such as Paras and Guards. The Roosians are supposed to be stupid oafs, you know. So it is delightful if the opposite is encountered. You always have the option of tweaking Arty effectiveness vis the Preferences screen for solo play. If you are playing PBEM you can discuss this with your opponent and come to an agreement on settings. There are scenarios with Russians set so low the battle is unplayable unless the preferences are jacked up. Can't remember when they were set too high, what scenario is it? Bing

Svennemir -> (8/19/2002 11:30:55 PM)
I just made a small test plotting 152mm guns against infantry. I plotted the same artillery units against the same infantry positions first unspotted, then spotted. This was done three times. Total casualties for spotted barrages: 319. Total casualties for unspotted barrages: 354. They must have had a bad day. Seems Bing is quite right, though it says in the manual that spotted fire is much more deadly.

Svennemir -> (8/19/2002 11:31:28 PM)
Of course I reloaded the scenario after each barrage!

Frank W. -> (8/20/2002 12:45:56 AM)
bing: this is the RUSSIAN STEEL camp. download at tankheads side. in this camp i think the russian is beefed up a little to give him better chances. but i must admit, the mix of force i choose (mostly T34/41 + KV1) is not very historical. otherwise with Bt7愀 and T26 you would be a sitting duck. these heavy russian tanks really rock against the german armor of early period. esp. if they gained some experience. things will change with tiger+panther i惴 shure! thx frank [QUOTE]Originally posted by Bing [B]Mortars from 120mm and up are lethal in the game, there is a reason for agreeing not to use too many of them in H2H games. But it also depends upon the intentions of the designer. Ditto for rockets. Performance ratings of all kinds are usually set lower for Soviet units, I have found this is so even when the troops are elite, such as Paras and Guards. The Roosians are supposed to be stupid oafs, you know. So it is delightful if the opposite is encountered. You always have the option of tweaking Arty effectiveness vis the Preferences screen for solo play. If you are playing PBEM you can discuss this with your opponent and come to an agreement on settings. There are scenarios with Russians set so low the battle is unplayable unless the preferences are jacked up. Can't remember when they were set too high, what scenario is it? Bing [/B][/QUOTE]

Frank W. -> (8/20/2002 12:49:03 AM)
i forgot to say: i don愒 very often change any of the prefs in the game. i want it like it is. i mean otherwise it愀 kind of cheating. i think the biggest probs a had in the stalingrad camp and in some PBEM games, but usually against AI the standard prefs are okay.

tracer -> (8/20/2002 3:13:37 AM)
Since in 95+% of battles I've ever played I only had 1 FO (in a rear, hidden position), I'd accept Bing and Svennemir's test results as accurate, no matter what the manual says. What about the old debate: having 'fast arty' on results in less rounds fired/damage done? I remember a thread concerning this issue (pre-version 7.0) in which several people ran tests, and almost all of them concluded that it was true. Any new insights or opinions about this?

Svennemir -> (8/20/2002 4:36:02 AM)
Well, I just conducted a test similar to the one before for spotted artillery /w FAST ARTY. Total casualties for spotted barrage /w fast arty: 300 casualties. (actually I tried a few more times than before and did some maths, so the test would compare to the earlier ones as if it had 300 kills) Of course this is no big difference from before, and nothing has been proved yet. But there doesn't seem to be a very big issue. Perhaps someone would do a big test someday. About the prefs: I originally regarded changing the prefs as semi-"cheating", but in my later days I've gone over to different view. After the Splash damage fix of 7.1, infantry was much more vulnerable than before, and this hasn't been fully compensated for. Therefore I tend to crank up both "infantry toughness" and "arty vs. soft", partially compensating for this. I've even gone so far as to change Spotting modifier to suit my needs. Also the "SPWAW crew" (Vebber) encourages pref adjustments.

ThomasKN -> thank you :) (8/20/2002 7:48:25 AM)
Thank you guys...now with lots of help from you guys, at least I understand a bit about FO... previously, I don't know what to do with them....so, last time, i just let him rest far behind the line ;) rgds

john g -> (8/21/2002 7:35:47 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Svennemir [B]I just made a small test plotting 152mm guns against infantry. I plotted the same artillery units against the same infantry positions first unspotted, then spotted. This was done three times. Total casualties for spotted barrages: 319. Total casualties for unspotted barrages: 354. They must have had a bad day. Seems Bing is quite right, though it says in the manual that spotted fire is much more deadly. [/B][/QUOTE] Was this all plotted to arrive on the target at the same time? We had a discussion months ago about the effect of having hundreds of heavy bombers attacking an Italian village over the course of 24 hours vs the effect when they all hit in one bombardment phase. Nothing survives when the shells are just hosing the target, try the same test with a 75mm battery, with just one battery hitting per turn. thanks, John.

gainiac -> How I use FO's........ (8/25/2002 2:28:35 AM)
I usually have 3 FO's in my core force. 1 with my HQ platoon and 1 each with my recon platoons. My recon platoons typically consist of 2 recon squads, 1 FO, close support tank, AA vehicle, and an anti-tank vehicle/gun. For instance as the Americans: 1xFO 2xRecon Squads M15 Sherman Wolverine Quite the well rounded package of firepower lotsa good anti-infantry capability, mobility, and anti-tank capability in a pinch. I typically forward deploy these units up to the FEB and start scouting around, once I feel I 've found a good safe spot I bring up my FO and he squats -n- spots. My recon remains in the general vicinity usually setup for an ambush of the oncoming enemies. FO's should NEVER operate alone. My FO's are scooting alloverthe battlefield along with my recon formations. Martin

gainiac -> Whether FO's result in more damage or not..... (8/25/2002 2:36:07 AM)
I could care less........ The primary function of my recon forces is to spot the enemy and disrupt his movement while remaining unspotted all the while retaining the capability to respond with maximum violence if engaged. Teaming up an FO with them results in bringing maximum firepower to bear on target in a moments notice...then they just fade away........... :) Martin

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