RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (Full Version)

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ZeroSum -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 9:25:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ductape

well I am nt mister corrector but that font isn't very readable. I think it means that...WTF are we waiting for? NEWS PLEASE!



I would be happy if someone would confirm if there are plans to address the readabilty of the text in either a future patch or the expansion.

-ZeroSum



Aures -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 10:59:22 AM)

*gobsmacked*

*shakes head*

ZeroSum, I sympathise with your difficulty with the font. It is fine for my eyes at 1920x1200 but I can understand how frustrating it would be to have something like that getting in the way of your enjoyment of the game.

I'll bite my tongue and avoid responding to everything wrong with that last post. No sense stirring stuff up. Suffice it to say I mention your concern about text legibility because it is the only thing in that post I don't take issue with.



NefariousKoel -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 12:07:42 PM)

[:D]

The font size doesn't bother me, it's just the specific font itself at hi-res gets blurred across partial pixels somehow and is rather messy.



ZeroSum -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 12:36:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aures

*gobsmacked*

*shakes head*

ZeroSum, I sympathise with your difficulty with the font. It is fine for my eyes at 1920x1200 but I can understand how frustrating it would be to have something like that getting in the way of your enjoyment of the game.

I'll bite my tongue and avoid responding to everything wrong with that last post. No sense stirring stuff up. Suffice it to say I mention your concern about text legibility because it is the only thing in that post I don't take issue with.


After reading your polite response to my post I could see that a portion of what I said was unfair and so I edited those comments out.

Thank you!

-ZeroSum




ZeroSum -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 12:53:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

[:D]

The font size doesn't bother me, it's just the specific font itself at hi-res gets blurred across partial pixels somehow and is rather messy.



I agree that the specific font itself is what I would like to see changed. However, a font size option would be nice as well.

-ZeroSum



Aures -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 2:14:26 PM)

No problem Zero Sum, as you can probably guess from my response I have had my fair share of experience with stuff that is said innocently but can be taken the wrong way. Glad my feedback got to you before someone started unpacking the flame throwers.

Unfortunately because of where DW is atm it is unlikely that you will get a confirmation of the devs intentions until the expansion is out (or at least properly announced). I respect their desire to keep things completely under wraps and I think it is smart to avoid making statements about things before they are finalised. That said I agree in principle with your suggestion, it is clear from the responses to this thread that many people experience the same problem you do.

Just because specific information is not being posted on the public forums by devs atm does not change that you and others experiencing legibility issues can probably provide some more detailed feedback that will assist in any attempt to improve legibility. As I do not have any issue reading the text in game my concern is that there may be some windows setting/s affecting legibility rather than just eyesight (I don't wear glasses for computer use but my eyesight is not 20/20). I know the software I support professionally has issues with several windows display settings and they can be a can of worms for form environments. Fortunately that software runs on a dedicated server environment with remote desktops so it does not have to support non standard windows settings but commercial games like DW have to work with whatever people have set up.

I am using Windows 7 and have all the defaults selected (in control panel>display font size is set to 100%, clear type is on with the default settings, custom DPI is set to 100%) at a resolution of 1920x1200 on a 24 inch monitor (I think that means a pitch of 0.27). It is possible that some setting that users with eyesight issues change to improve general legibility is having the unintended effect of reducing legibility in DW, knowledge of what settings you are using may be helpful. If you have time messing around with those same settings to see if it has any effect (particularly setting things back to default) could also be useful. Or it could be an issue with monitor size/pitch so knowing how big your screen is may be important. If my monitor was 28 inches I might find the text at 1920x1200 blurred and hard to read.

ZeroSum, as this is your thread and you are quite keen on this issue would you be willing to take some screenshots and post them up like the one I have added at the end of this post? I would suggest taking a print screen, dumping into paint, cropping a small section of the screen with legibility issues (such as the unit detail panel as I have) and post a gif (to avoid compression issues with jpgs). If it is an issue with some windows setting then the difference between what you and I see should be evident on the screenshot. If it is just a matter of screen size or eyesight then both screenshots should be about the same and I should have no trouble reading either of them while you struggle with both of them.

[image]local://upfiles/36127/6A5A3D140B234F07ADAF2756FD8A6EA6.gif[/image]



WoodMan -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 3:13:55 PM)

Thats what the text looks like on my machine too.  However, whats with all the dots???



Igard -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 3:26:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Thats what the text looks like on my machine too.  However, whats with all the dots???


That's just a colour limitation of the gif image format. It doesn't affect the clarity of the text.



ZeroSum -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 3:30:55 PM)

I am using Windows XP and I have a 21.5 inch monitor that has a native resolution of 1920 x 1080.

I have a pair of reading glasses that I use at the computer.

I can see the bold font in both of our screenshots just fine. However I have to strain to see the non-bold text. -ZeroSum

-ZeroSum

[image]local://upfiles/34376/D3A07E9557014771A92C59B7965BF015.gif[/image]



Shark7 -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 3:52:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aures

No problem Zero Sum, as you can probably guess from my response I have had my fair share of experience with stuff that is said innocently but can be taken the wrong way. Glad my feedback got to you before someone started unpacking the flame throwers.




It's the nature of the internet...much of what we type can be easily misconstrued due to lack of context or emotional queues for the reader.



Aures -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/6/2010 5:55:46 PM)

So true Shark7, I have learned a bit from threads where one throwaway line generates a storm of misunderstanding and response. Then in the process of cleaning that mess up there are two or more lines that generate their own whirlwinds of flame etc. It is eerily analogous to the process of a nuclear explosion.

ZeroSum, the text in your screenshot looks pretty much identical to mine. The issue is probably monitors/eyesight. Although I have no issue reading the text, in the process of closely examining it I have achieved a greater appreciation for how its clarity could be improved. Rather than just being a matter of fonts the shadow effect behind the text might be detracting from legibility. It does add a little to the aesthetics but I'm not sure anyone could argue it makes it easier to read (except that with a picture in the background it makes it easier to distinguish text from picture). That it is greyish text on a greyish background doesn't help either.

I have attached a blown up version of my previous screenshot (although I am now using jpg I have confirmed it is an accurate representation by comparing with a zoomed in view of a raw screenshot) that makes it more obvious how indistinct the unbold text is. I have started messing around with replacing the text in that shot with a flatter white colour, I think that might make it much more legible.

I think that most fonts would probably still be hard to read when combined with those other considerations. It would suck if you got your wish and the font was replaced or the ability to substitute fonts was implemented but the text is still hard to read. There are at least three different things that might be getting in the way of easy reading:

font;
colour;
shadowing.

The default font used probably won't be changed. The ability to mod the game to use different fonts would be cool regardless of how much of a contribution it is making to illegibility. But be warned there is no way they can design the forms in such a way as to avoid all issues that different fonts might cause (mainly text overflow). There might be some room for improving the vanilla game regarding colour and shadowing in various areas. As how those are done depend on what area of the game you are talking about more feedback would be needed on what text is easy to read and what is causing issues.

Lol as I was writing this I came on an example of light blue text on a slightly darker blue transparent background in an empire flag. Although I can read it staring at it gives me a headache in short order.

[image]local://upfiles/36127/2B7D9FEC4C1D4B5F8853AFE34D72A917.jpg[/image]



Shark7 -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/7/2010 4:11:32 PM)

People like me who have not only have to deal with being nearsighted, but have the added problem of a red/green color deficiency (think of it as a mild form of color blindness...I see colors, but have trouble distinguishing different shades of the same color) can easily have problems not so much with font, but with the font color and background color choices.

For me, the best text is white on black, followed by black on white. That is I do best with white fonts on a black background. DWs font has not given me too much trouble (or perhaps I have learned to compensate well), but still an option for the visually impaired to adjust it is always welcome.



LoBaron -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/8/2010 5:25:44 AM)

Just a hint for those experiencing issues with readable fonts:

Most up to date TFTs have a couple of predefined display settings, usually categorized for different uses.
I recommend playing around with those settings as there often is a major difference in contrast and color saturation between them.

For example when I set my monitor to "movie" or "standard RGB" the fonts are barely readable. I can change that setting to "picture"
just by pressing the menu button and this increases readability by a high percentage (in this case a benq 20" 16:9 tft)



ASHBERY76 -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/8/2010 9:21:15 PM)

This is first time in living memory that a product is out in less than a month and we have not one screenshot,feature to chew over for the community? Poor show to say the least.



WoodMan -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/8/2010 9:57:16 PM)

[:D]

We don't know if its out in less than a month do we?  That was their original plan, for most games though, from any developer add 3 to 12 months.

But, fingers crossed, I'm still hoping for before Christmas! [:'(]



Igard -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/8/2010 9:58:20 PM)

Less than a month away? Where'd you hear that, Ash?



adecoy95 -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/8/2010 11:27:54 PM)

i would imagine, with the lack of information, its further off than we think.

if they cant give us a list of features, they probably dont have one yet



Igard -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 12:02:27 AM)

Indeed, the wishlists are extensive so there's no way to know what it is they're working on and just how much is being planned. I just hope they prioritise accordingly and bring us what we want.

Perhaps we're due some info soon to whet our appetites? Even if it's just one or two features that are in place?



ZeroSum -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 2:02:44 AM)

Any info would be appreciated at this point.



Aures -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 3:28:04 AM)

If you are wondering about info and release dates please reread Eric's post on the first page of this thread, I think it is perfectly clear.



WoodMan -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 10:10:30 AM)

True he does say they are still working towards a Christmas release.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they post asking for Beta testers a few weeks back?  Did anyone get in?  Usually Beta testers are all over forums telling you what to expect, though I guess maybe they were asked to keep quiet as we haven't had the official announcement yet.

Still, I'm very confident that this addon will be fantastic, I've never seen a dev take in as much public advice and suggestions as Elliott did during the patching process up to the most recent patch.  Don't mind if its a bit late, but still hoping for at least a teaser soon, even a simple list without pics or anything [:D]



Aures -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 10:52:24 AM)

Yeah, had to sign an NDA so I have to be very careful what I say. There was actually a point where someone scared me out of even acknowledging I am on the team, but it is not rocket science to work out my post count is shooting up but you can't find my posts in a search. I don't know if they are still accepting people but if you want to know what is going on the dev forum is the place to be. There are definitely a few people around like yourself who I was kind of surprised not to see in there. Even after the announcement beta testers will still have to adhere to the NDA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

We simply haven't been ready to discuss, several things need to be in place in order to make an official announcement and preview and we're still working on this. The expansion is in testing and we are very busy making tweaks, fixes and improvements based on tester feedback. The goal is to release this expansion before Christmas, so we're very quickly approaching the point where we will have to make an announcement if we believe we can make that date. I can say that the promised mod support and the galactopedia update will be in the expansion, though we also plan to add those enhancements to the next original DW release update.

Regards,

- Erik


Technically Eric stated that they are working up to an announcement of features and the expected release date. And, that the proposed release date was around Christmas but the decision hadn't been finalised yet (past tense because Erik's post was in the past and I can't do anything other than restate what has already been said, don't use it as an indication one way or the other). Until the announcement pretty much everything is mum for obvious reasons. All that is just a rewording of what the quote says, it is not based on any special knowledge.

Awkward time to ask for confirmation of specific enhancements or news on the public forum. Doesn't mean constructive discussion and feedback is any less useful than it always was.

BTW though I am on the beta team I don't speak in any official capacity whatsoever. I am just stating my opinion and trying to ease some of the more strident calls for news while staying in the bounds of what I can say.



WoodMan -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 11:02:12 AM)

Hehe, I thought of applying for it, but they made it sound like you need to be some sort of professional, asking what you can offer the project or something (I can't recall what exactly they said now), so because I have exams (one a couple months ago, one late this month) I thought I'd leave it just incase they expect too much from me [:D]



Aures -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 11:57:20 AM)

Well I am an IT professional, when I found my current job I was looking for something in the gaming industry such as a beta tester. What I do now is not that dissimilar to what goes on in the gaming industry and I haven't ruled it out yet as a future career direction. I am also kind of jealous that my brother gets paid to play computer games so I am happy to do this on my free time. At least I only have to play games I actually want to atm, not all skittles and beer for him.

I don't have inside knowledge regarding their criteria but I think it was probably more an interview type question designed to elicit a cogent response that demonstrated genuine interest. I'm not sure what better qualification there could be than your posting record. I completely understand about the time commitment though. I am really glad I don't have to do exams all the time any more.

You have my empathy, having done several hundred of the darn things at college means I have done more than most. When you start longing for the days when exams were a matter of rote memorisation and simple logical deduction you know you have gone off the deep end. Lots of my later exams were more like a collection of brainteasers loosely related to the subject rather than anything requiring you to demonstrate your knowledge and understanding of the course material. I hope that yours are far more straight forward.



WoodMan -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 12:11:16 PM)

Hehe, I wish, I was made redundant almost 1 year ago and after 6 months of no luck I decided to retrain... to IT.  Got to admit, the networking course I'm studying at the moment is a nightmare [:D]

I think its aimed at people who actually already work in the IT industry, ah well, see how it goes, can only try my best [;)]



Igard -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 2:13:44 PM)

Good luck with the course WoodMan. My brother was made redundant recently also. Times are pretty tough.

Aures, I hear what your'e saying, but Eric's comments were 3 weeks ago now. Some of us here on the old regular forum are starting to feel a bit forgotten *sniff, sniff, sob,sob* [:(]




Aures -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 3:29:54 PM)

That sucks Woodman. But in my job they want me to do all kinds of network stuff without training me in it properly so if you want to be in IT it is a good thing to study properly. The course was probably designed for people like me. The sad thing is I already knew how much of a nightmare networks are before I ever got near the IT industry. I was glad that I understood them schematically but didn't have to know the gory details, it is worse than anatomy. A room mate of mine was studying anatomy for a genetic engineering degree, I will never forget how much time he spent burning latin names into his brain (course was designed mainly for med students so not dissimilar to your situation). At least what I'm doing is equivalent to basic medic duty rather than neurosurgery. I feel sorry for all the general IT support people out there who are actually expected to know all that stuff (not to mention the poor med students).

You'll do fine, from what I have seen on the forums I would have no problem training you if you worked for my company (which is probably not a possibility unless you want to live in Sydney Australia).



ehsumrell1 -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 9:13:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aures

Yeah, had to sign an NDA so I have to be very careful what I say. There was actually a point where someone scared me out of even acknowledging I am on the team, but it is not rocket science to work out my post count is shooting up but you can't find my posts in a search. I don't know if they are still accepting people but if you want to know what is going on the dev forum is the place to be. There are definitely a few people around like yourself who I was kind of surprised not to see in there. Even after the announcement beta testers will still have to adhere to the NDA.

BTW though I am on the beta team I don't speak in any official capacity whatsoever. I am just stating my opinion and trying to ease some of the more strident calls for news while staying in the bounds of what I can say.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Aures, I hear what your'e saying, but Eric's comments were 3 weeks ago now. Some of us here on the old regular forum are starting to feel a bit forgotten *sniff, sniff, sob,sob* [:(]



Yes Igard, just be a bit more patient, the testers can't leave the "Briar Patch" just yet or
our ships' warp cores may explode. But trust me.... you WILL be pleased after the wait! I
think you know me well enough to understand! [sm=00000506.gif]



Igard -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/9/2010 9:59:43 PM)

I know I can trust you, Ed. [;)]

Sorry if my above post seemed a bit childish, but I'm just a bit concerned about the lack of official presense on this forum. There are requests for help on the tech support forum going un-answered.



Simulation01 -> RE: More news when? Also... Who else needs more readable fonts? (11/10/2010 1:58:50 PM)

A black hole has opened it's gaping maw to prevent any and all news from escaping the Matrix event horizon.  Does this mean the end for the SS Forum Denizens?  Will the great forum ship survive the crushing, all encompassing embrace of this singularity?  Will the black hole emit a patch or expansion in the form of Matrix Radiation?  Tune it next week as our heroes dangle perilously close to eternity's darkness.  Watch as Igard and friend's struggle over the pieces of quantum news in the accretion disk.  Yes friends this a time that will try the souls of our heroes.  Till next time.





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