Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug?). HELP! (Full Version)

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Skywalker -> Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug?). HELP! (11/8/2010 12:11:52 PM)

This problem occured several times before, but never i was sure that it isn't my mistake... until now.
Situation - i found a big graveyard - 20+ shipwrecks. Of course I grabbed 3 of my latest construction ships and send them to repair them under my close observation...
We successfully retreived several capitals and cruisers when suddenly a fleet of small destroyers, belonged to other faction emerged from hyperspace and parked inside this graveyard.
There were no construction ships there - only small battleships.
Suddenly i realised that every (10 in a row) ship retrieved from wreck by MY constructors was marked with another faction colour (the one who's destroyers was sightseeing nearby)...

So id' like to ASK WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON????? Once i lost the planet destroyer in same manner...


UPD
When last ship of that faction left graveyard all ships repaired after that was marked by my empire's colour.

UPD
AND AGAIN - 1 destroyer of the same faction jumped in the graveyard and all retrieved after that event ships was marked as not my.



Wenla -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/8/2010 12:33:35 PM)

This issue (as you described) is 'normal' behaviour. Look at earlier discussions why/how to handle this situation.



Skywalker -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/8/2010 12:43:38 PM)

Couldn't you advise me keywords for search or url of that discussion?



adecoy95 -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/8/2010 2:16:31 PM)

i believe you have to park your own military ships in the wreckage, that should give you priority



Skywalker -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/8/2010 2:35:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

i believe you have to park your own military ships in the wreckage, that should give you priority


Priority?
So if i see somebody's construction ship repairing such wreckage I can place my military ship nearby and that ship will be my after completion of repairs? Even if it wasn't me who repaired that wreckage?



adecoy95 -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/8/2010 2:46:55 PM)

i believe so, unless they have their own military ships



Skywalker -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/8/2010 3:02:31 PM)

During last game I found wreckage of world destroyer. I am completely sure that I was first. Next moment a fleet of 5 capships (salvaged) and 2 constructor ships was sent there. After all space slugs was exterminated my constructor began repairs and I sent main fleet elsewhere. After nerly 40% of repairs was completed, constructors of two other empires arrived. To be on the safe side I assigned 1 escort ship (custom design - tough) to escort one of my constructors (the one that was working). I left them to work and from time to time i looked after progress. Freighter made regular shipments, indicator moved constantly (the percentage of done work in construction manager). Finally construction manager told me, that work is done. I gladly looked at the newly rebuilt world destroyer and saw that it was marked with brown color (my color is blue)...
So...
On my side was 2 constructors and 1 escort ship, and I saw % countdown in my ship's building list.
On the other side was constructors of 2 different empires... So how the hell did they acquired that wreck?



Aures -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/9/2010 3:21:34 AM)

Sorry I can't advise keywords. Since I have joined I have seen many posts that casually mention this mechanic and take it as read that it is understood but I guess the original detailed discussion was before my time.

I know the basic premise that you can park your fleet near ships that are being repaired and so "steal" them from other empires repairing them (usually mentioned in the context of world destroyers so keywords related to those might turn up something useful) and that AI empires can "steal" stuff you are repairing in the same fashion. I haven't really tested it though and I am not sure whether there has been a discussion of how it works exactly, what happens when fleets from both empires are present, how close the ships have to be (I assume all ships in the system are taken into account but I have no specific knowledge), whether the type of ship has any effect (eg depends only on firepower) or if it just the number of ships, if it just matters what ships are present at the instant repairing is finished etc etc.

If anyone does know exactly how it works an explanation certainly wouldn't be wasted, there is nothing recent that discusses it in detail and anything older might not work exactly the same now as it did when that was written. Some people probably have a lot of experience using this mechanic to their advantage so a few words from an expert would be appreciated. If there has been a detailed discussion in the past that is still relevant I'm sure Skywalker and others would appreciate an actual link to the relevant discussion (or keywords as Skywalker suggested, or a quote from another thread that explains it clearly) more than just a suggestion to check older threads.

The only other suggestion I have is to check the AAR forum, I am sure several of the threads there mention it even if it is not discussed in detail.

It is definitely something that would be useful to explain clearly in the galactopedia. Afaik there is not one word about it in the current one.



Jeeves -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/9/2010 5:59:49 AM)

Well I have a lot of experience in repairing wrecks, so perhaps I can be considered an expert. In a recent game, I had a world destroyer and another debris field of about 30 wrecks within 1.5 sectors of my home system. So I made getting a constructor and two cruisers into that system a tip-top priority. I made the mistake of selling my galaxy map to the Atuuks after I had found that system. Sure enough, within about the time it took for a constructor from their home system to arrive provided it immediately stopped work on what it was doing when they got the map, an Atuuk constructor arrived and started work on the World Destroyer. A few weeks later the Atuuk first fleet of 7 destroyers and a troop transport arrived. The game developed further, with me quietly repairing cruisers and capital ships, and eventually there were six fleets of 7 destroyers plus a troop transport in the system. Added to the Atuuk constructor working on the world destroyer were 3 from the Quameno, a Mortalen, a Shandar, and a Naxillian. I just kept adding one good firepower cruiser to the system for every AI empire fleet which arrived. I repaired a dozen cruisers or cap ships with all those foreigners present. They outnumbered me in ships, but I had the firepower, and every repaired ship belonged to ME.

I will be back in a few moments with an edit giving a URL here on the forum which shows some pictures from that game. You might be interested in the screen shot of "Cry Havoc" a design which would have been used to end construction on that world destroyer rather abruptly if I had not achieved victory before the world destroyer was repaired.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2600868

Post 16 - With a super area weapon and a death ray on board, cry havoc has over 1000 firepower. Simply approach the world destroyer and attack it. The constructor ships working there will all blow up, but since you were (strictly speaking) not attacking them but a nearby enemy, the AI have no cause for complaint. Do this only if the world destroyer does not yet have its warp drive repaired...




Skywalker -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/9/2010 3:24:50 PM)

To Aures

I finally found the topic (manually looked through the discussion board - English is still a bit strange for me) here it is - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2538700


Hmmm...
Interesting way :)...

Another question..
World destroyer whisch I am repairing.
Roughly at 80% it exploding. I replayed that situation 8 times (save\load), but each time, roughly at 80% there is short explosion (nobody around was even scratched), short "bang" and message "construction ship ******** finished the task". No enemy battleships nearby. And during that replays i spent different time before starting repair works.
By the way, there were dozens of my transports, full of cargo, crowding ner the wreck, and apparently stayed in a que to the working constructor (one was even docked).

This time e had Star Trek mod engaged.

Can anyone explane me what was going on? Was there a normal explosion (a time bomb for repairing wreck) or some bug???



Aures -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/9/2010 3:35:52 PM)

Thanks skywalker, very interesting. Doesn't really give definitive answers but it is certainly informative.

Sorry, no idea why it exploding.



J HG T -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/9/2010 6:43:26 PM)

Thanks for clearing this up Jeeves! I Have had couple games where I had to compete with AIs for control of the "Death Star" or some nice derelict vessels and didn't just get the idea why ships went to other factions. Also, it seems like if enemy brings their construction ship to repair the WD you are already repairing, they can sabotage the WD, completely destroying it. This happened to me in my latest game and it was annoying. To prevent this just fire at the constructors trying to sneak in and send them fleeing. Don't destroy them if not necessary. The fully operational WD easily makes up for some lost reputation.



Jeeves -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/9/2010 7:16:00 PM)

[:)] Thanks for the Thanks! [:D] I do not really want to destroy the AI empire constructors, but I would do it to prevent their finishing the World Destroyer. I laughed when the third Quameno constructor arrived, wondering how much their economy was suffering because they were diverting their constructors to do the repair work. I learned in an early game that it takes YEARS of constructor work to repair the things, even with high rate constructor yards. The game is already over for me long before one is finished. However, if you are playing in sandbox mode, somebody will eventually repair each one, unless it is destroyed. The main benefit is of course that you get a technology bonus for working on wrecks. The wreck is thus not the main benefit.

Cry Havoc! Was my answer to the World Destroyer. Although unable to destroy worlds, it would certainly wreak havoc on spaceports and orbital bases, even on home worlds. I built three of them, so I expected that they could "get 'er done" on the toughest jobs. But the game victory conditions were set too low at 33%, causing me to win before I could test it out..



Merker -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/9/2010 7:55:14 PM)

Well, the only time I ever found the world destroyer in one of my games was in my very first one and I took it over. It was pretty far off into the game and I barely had half of the map explored, but lots of equally powerful and violent AI empires all around the place. One of my freighters I think, or an explorer, stumbled upon a bunch of constructors from all those empires repairing the WD. It was like half a map away from me, so bringing one of my slow constructors was out of the question. I thought 'what the hey' and brought one of my fleets there with some messed up capital ships of mine(first design experiment, really slow turning and only some death ray thingy on them) and I forgot them near the WD. A few months later I get the message that I have a WD, yay! I felt sorry for the hard work of the AIs though, some of them were even enemies and they kept shooting the supply ships and each other. Now I placed the WD next to the homeworld of one of the most powerful AI empires. They don't seem to like that very much....[:D][:D][:D]

On the wreck claiming part: I had a situation where in a wreck field both myself and an AI had constructors and fleets. However, I had a couple of my most powerful ships, and it seems I got all the wrecks around, even though the AI sometimes sent his ships all over the place, I don't know if proximity matters more, but firepower clearly makes a difference.

Edit: I also remember a time when one of my C-ships repaired a derelict cruiser near another empires colony and the cruiser went to that empire. So it seems nearby property of another faction also influences the switching of the derelicts.

Cheers



Wenla -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/10/2010 12:22:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skywalker

Can anyone explane me what was going on? Was there a normal explosion (a time bomb for repairing wreck) or some bug???


Happened also for me and I have allways cosidered it that the ship was trapped. Not sure of that anyhow.



corbon -> RE: Wrong faction wreck repairing (bug). HELP! (11/11/2010 11:50:29 PM)

It always appears to me that the empire with the largest amount of firepower close by gets to claim any repaired ships, not the closest ship or first ship.
I don't see anywhere that anyone has mentioned this.

This explains why 1 escort will claim the ship sometimes (when there are no armed enemy ships in the vicinity) but an armed constructor won't claim it in the presence of an enemy fleet, even if it was the first ship there and did all the work.

Feature, not bug. [8D]



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