Emergency Reinforcements--WC

Emergency Reinforcements--WC (Full Version)

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Bullwinkle58 -> Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 12:41:48 AM)
OK, this is the base case reinforcements for a traditional Japanese landing at San Francisco. I had planned to post screen shots as I did with the other cases, but when you see the list you'll realize that nobody has that kind of time. [:)] As Andy Mac said, the makeup of each LCU in the package is available in the editor in the last 50 slots of the LCU list. This package, however, unlike the ones for India, Oz, and NZ, has MASSIVE air reinforcements as well. It is truly a stunning quantity of response to any Japanese landing, and I do not see how ANY Japanese player, no matter how incompetant his opposition, could defeat it. I mean, come on, the Allies get a HUGE resupply convoy at SALT LAKE CITY!!![:)] (that screenie I'll post below because it's a fat convoy.) Methodology: 1) You know the drill by now. Medium-sized amphib TF with infantry and heavy escorts drives into SF Bay. CD and mines do a moderate amount of cutting up. 2) This provides another case of the SF CD response. The moonlight here was 78%, weather Overcast. The CD unit was on Reserve, the base force on Rest. (Strategic surprise was achieved. Plus, I forgot to reset them. Sorry, I have a cold today.) 3) The NZ notification is from the landing LCU still sitting quietly on North Island, not attacking. I found out that even once the reinforcements for that trigger enter the OOB and are on the board, the notification line in the Ops Report stays and is repeated every day unitl the enemy force is lifted off. When I took the Japanese infantry out of NZ and headed them back to Perth the Ops Report line stopped posting, but the reinforcements were on the board to stay. 4) Again, peruse the reinforcement package. I did not check line by line, but I believe many of these units are early arrival units. They, unlike the Aussie, NZ, and to some extent Indian, reinforcement packages, enter at locations which will find them in combat very, very quickly, in great force, if the landing is at a US base. A head-on invasion of SF, San Diego, or LA looks even more suicidal for the Japanese than one at, say, Vancouver, where death would be slower, but no less sure. Without further ado, I give you The Hammer: AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 26, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 12 encounters mine field at San Francisco (218,70) Japanese Ships DD Hatsushima xAK Sakido Maru, Mine hits 1, heavy damage Japanese ground losses: 29 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled 1 mine cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 12 encounters mine field at San Francisco (218,70) Japanese Ships BB Hiei, Mine hits 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-Invasion action off San Francisco Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force 37 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships BB Kirishima CA Tone DD Wakaba DD Hatsushima xAK Goyo Maru, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage BB Hiei xAK Hitati Maru, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage xAK Terukawa Maru DD Isokaze xAK Syohei Maru, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage xAP Huzi Maru Japanese ground losses: 110 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 12 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Allied ground losses: Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled) BB Kirishima firing at SF Harbor Defenses CA Tone firing at SF Harbor Defenses DD Hatsushima firing at SF Harbor Defenses 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 5,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 5,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards DD Isokaze firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 5,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 5,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 5,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 5,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 5,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 5,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards DD Isokaze firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 5,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 5,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards DD Wakaba fired at enemy troops DD Hatsushima fired at enemy troops Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 4,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at San Francisco TF 12 troops unloading over beach at San Francisco, 218,70 Japanese ground losses: 173 casualties reported Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled 20 troops of a IJA HMG Squad lost overboard during unload of 4th Div 20 troops of a IJA HMG Squad lost in surf during unload of 4th Div /2 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad accidentally lost during unload of 4th Div /3 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad accidentally lost during unload of 4th Div /4 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /5 10 Support troops lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /6 10 Support troops lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /7 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 4th Div /8 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 4th Div /8 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad accidentally lost during unload of 4th Div /10 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /12 10 Support troops lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /16 10 Support troops lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off San Francisco Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force 11 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships BB Kirishima CA Tone DD Wakaba DD Hatsushima xAK Goyo Maru, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage BB Hiei DD Isokaze xAK Hitati Maru, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage xAK Syohei Maru, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Akigumo xAP Huzi Maru 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 8,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 8,000 yards 10in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 8,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 8,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 8,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 8,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 8,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 8,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 8,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 8,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 8,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 8,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 8,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 8,000 yards DD Akigumo firing to suppress enemy battery at 8,000 yards 10in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 8,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 8,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 8,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 8,000 yards DD Hatsushima fired at enemy guns -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off San Francisco Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force 38 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships xAK Terukawa Maru, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage BB Hiei BB Kirishima xAK London Maru, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Akigumo CA Tone xAK Kusuyama Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire xAK Nissen Maru #3, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage xAP Huzi Maru 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 6,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK London Maru at 6,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 6,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 6,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 6,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 6,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 6,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Kusuyama Maru at 6,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 6,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 6,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 6,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 6,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 6,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 6,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 6,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Nissen Maru #3 at 6,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 6,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 6,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 6,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK London Maru at 6,000 yards =================================================== OPERATIONAL REPORT FOR Mar 26, 42 No additional repairs possible on DD Rathburne using currently assigned resources at Los Angeles No additional repairs possible on SS KXV using currently assigned resources at Soerabaja No additional repairs possible on DD Rathburne using currently assigned resources at Los Angeles No additional repairs possible on SS KXV using currently assigned resources at Soerabaja Ship Withdrawals: 2 overdue (40 Daily PP, 1680 Accumulated PP) Group Withdrawals: 43 overdue (513 Daily PP, 18753 Accumulated PP) WC invaded! Counter invasion forces released. New Zealand invaded! Counter invasion forces released. Bateson, R.N. reassigned xAK Goyo Maru is reported to have been sunk near San Francisco on Mar 26, 1942 xAK Hitati Maru is reported to have been sunk near San Francisco on Mar 26, 1942 xAK Syohei Maru is reported to have been sunk near San Francisco on Mar 26, 1942 VMD-1 arrives at San Diego VMD-2 arrives at San Diego VMF-123 arrives at San Diego VMF-124 arrives at San Diego VMSB-143 arrives at San Diego VMSB-144 arrives at San Diego VMO-151 arrives at Eastern USA VMF-213 arrives at Pearl Harbor VMF-214 arrives at Pearl Harbor VMF-223 arrives at Pearl Harbor VMF-224 arrives at Pearl Harbor VMSB-233 arrives at Pearl Harbor VMSB-234 arrives at Pearl Harbor VMSB-242 arrives at Santa Barbara VMSB-243 arrives at Santa Barbara VMSB-244 arrives at San Diego VP-61 arrives at Alameda VP-62 arrives at Alameda VS-6D14 arrives at Alameda ZP-32 arrives at Alameda No.118 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada No.132 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada No.133 Sqn RCAF arrives at Nelson No.135 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada No.147 Sqn RCAF arrives at Vancouver 9th PS arrives at Spokane 71st OG/17th OS arrives at San Francisco 7th BG/9th BS arrives at San Francisco 7th BG/11th BS arrives at Aden 7th BG/22nd BS arrives at San Francisco 43rd BG/63rd BS arrives at Eastern USA 43rd BG/64th BS arrives at Eastern USA 43rd BG/65th BS arrives at Eastern USA 38th BG/69th BS arrives at Eastern USA 38th BG/70th BS arrives at Eastern USA 38th BG/71st BS arrives at Eastern USA 90th BG/319th BS arrives at Eastern USA 90th BG/320th BS arrives at Eastern USA 90th BG/321st BS arrives at Eastern USA 307th BG/370th BS arrives at Spokane 307th BG/371st BS arrives at Spokane 307th BG/372nd BS arrives at Spokane 308th BG/373rd BS arrives at Boise 308th BG/374th BS arrives at Boise 308th BG/375th BS arrives at Boise 90th BG/400th BS arrives at Eastern USA 43rd BG/403rd BS arrives at Eastern USA 28th CG/404th BS arrives at Eastern USA 38th BG/405th BS arrives at Eastern USA 307th BG/35th RS arrives at Spokane 308th BG/36th RS arrives at Boise 341st BG/490th BS arrives at Aden 341st BG/491st BS arrives at Karachi 301st BG/32nd BS arrives at Mojave 301st BG/352nd BS arrives at Mojave 301st BG/353rd BS arrives at Mojave 301st BG/419th BS arrives at Mojave 301st BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave 303rd BG/358th BS arrives at Mojave 303rd BG/359th BS arrives at Mojave 303rd BG/360th BS arrives at Mojave 303rd BG/427th BS arrives at Mojave 303rd BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave 7th BG/9th BS Det arrives at San Francisco 7th BG/88th RS Det arrives at San Francisco 23rd FG/74th FS arrives at Aden 23rd FG/75th FS arrives at Aden 23rd FG/76th FS arrives at Aden 328th FG/326th FS arrives at San Francisco 328th FG/327th FS arrives at San Francisco 328th FG/329th FS arrives at San Francisco 329th FG/330th FS arrives at San Francisco 329th FG/331st FS arrives at San Francisco 18th FG/333rd FS arrives at Pearl Harbor 55th FG/338th FS arrives at Portland 329th FG/332nd FS arrives at San Francisco 374th TCG/6th TCS arrives at Eastern USA 13th TCS arrives at Eastern USA 22nd TS arrives at Melbourne 42nd TCS arrives at Anchorage 1st FeG/3rd FeS arrives at Aden 1st FeG/6th FeS arrives at Aden 1st FeG/13th FeS arrives at Aden 7th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at San Francisco 307th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Spokane 308th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Boise 301st BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Mojave 303rd BG/Hq sqn arrives at Mojave 23rd FG/Hq Sqn arrives at Aden 35th PG/Hq Sqn arrives at San Francisco II USA Armored Corps arrives at San Luis Obispo II USA Corps arrives at Salt Lake City 2nd Armored Division arrives at Salt Lake City 4th Motorized Division arrives at Salt Lake City 8th Motorized Division arrives at Salt Lake City 36th Infantry Division arrives at Salt Lake City Provisional Tank Brigade arrives at Mojave 2nd Army Tank Brigade arrives at Canada Invasion Mobilstn Supply Convoy arrives at Salt Lake City ========================================== [image]local://upfiles/31387/42A9EF82BFC7431F92C927B73BA0CD83.jpg[/image]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 12:49:51 AM)
The real interesting test for me is whether/which islands are in the trigger zone, and to a lesser extent, how far north the line extends. I will do some testing on that either tomorrow or over the weekend. I retitled these posts to a consistent wording and format so that anyone Searching for them in future should get them all if they find any. These forces/this concept are called all sorts of things in the forum archives, so I settled on "Emergency Reinforcements" as a standard for the Search function. Enjoy!

crsutton -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 5:00:46 AM)
Thanks for all your work. You can sleep in tomorrow morning......[;)]

CaptBeefheart -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 5:02:03 AM)
Muchas gracias! This is definitely the deity of your choice's work. I'm guessing most, or all, of those air units were hanging around the U.S. anyway in real life prior to overseas postings. Once you've done all the Allied emergency reinforcements, perhaps you could do the Home Islands? [/ducks] Cheers, CC

vettim89 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 5:15:00 AM)
Thank you Mr. Moose. These tests have been most enlightening. Still disappointed by the performance of the CD unit. The one source I consulted listed the forces at SF on 7 December 1941 as 6th CD command, three CD BTN (not one), plus two NG RGT's. Those reinforcements are impressive but without a big dump of airframes into the pools, they likely will be impotent in quick order at least as far as the air units go. Still a full USA Armored division even with M3's would be, shall we say, daunting.

Pascal_slith -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 7:00:29 AM)
The ever present R. N. Bateson is here again [:)] Also, I see the Great Salt Lake is now a convoy destination? [8D] Thanks for the work, Bullwinkle. Next up is Japan?

JeffroK -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 7:11:47 AM)
The convoy at SLC is representing devices sent by rail/road into the theatre, not a fleet of rowing boats on the Great Salt Lake. Its a great way of getting stuff to a place without having to ship it. I use it to send regular supply to Darwin. Thanks Bullwinkle, I would also like to see the IJA response to Invasion.

Pascal_slith -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 7:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffK The convoy at SLC is representing devices sent by rail/road into the theatre, not a fleet of rowing boats on the Great Salt Lake. Its a great way of getting stuff to a place without having to ship it. I use it to send regular supply to Darwin. Thanks Bullwinkle, I would also like to see the IJA response to Invasion. And how do you get one of these to send stuff to Darwin?

morganbj -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 1:22:15 PM)
So much for the Europe first strategy.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 1:23:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton Thanks for all your work. You can sleep in tomorrow morning......[;)] I wish. I live with a school teacher who grew up on a farm. Double whammy. Reville is 0445. And I am a night-owl by nature.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 1:29:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Commander Cody Muchas gracias! This is definitely the deity of your choice's work. I'm guessing most, or all, of those air units were hanging around the U.S. anyway in real life prior to overseas postings. Once you've done all the Allied emergency reinforcements, perhaps you could do the Home Islands? [/ducks] Cheers, CC Andy Mac said in another of these threads that mostly he did adjust arrival dates and steal from the ETO for his "reinforcement theory." Makes sense. You can't wand-wave a division into existence overnight. The USA's various National Guard forces were all on federal service by this point I believe, at least the heavy combat arms portions. This list, especially the air units, would have really altered European history in 1942-1943. The air war over the Continent, North Africa, and the Italian campaigns woud have been impossible and/or late with this many men and devices taken away. Just look at the resupply "convoy" at SLC--500 tanks, and a couple of divisions of infantry and mortars alone. Plus anti-tank and arty tubes. A lot of whatever backstop we had this early in the war.

JohnDillworth -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 1:43:41 PM)
Are there actual aircraft in these squadrons are are they just shells?

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 1:57:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vettim89 Thank you Mr. Moose. These tests have been most enlightening. Still disappointed by the performance of the CD unit. The one source I consulted listed the forces at SF on 7 December 1941 as 6th CD command, three CD BTN (not one), plus two NG RGT's. Those reinforcements are impressive but without a big dump of airframes into the pools, they likely will be impotent in quick order at least as far as the air units go. Still a full USA Armored division even with M3's would be, shall we say, daunting. I appreciate the appreciation. This has been more than interesting to me, and if it introduces some ideas for new strategies/tactics, for both sides, in future games it will have been worth it. In particular I could see more bombardment raiding of certain ports in Oz, India, and NZ for early, low-risk merchant and aircraft kills in areas, such as the south coast of Austrailia, where Allied players tend to feel safe from the get-go. Re SF's CD performance, let me restate that this is an experimetal test-bed game. I pulled ALL mobile LCUs out of SF to allow the Japanese a chance to get ashore without bringing what would be required in a real game. I wanted to test the trigger, not to see how well SF could defend itself. So, in my test there are only the static CD unit, and the non-mobile, initial base force. Everything else was moved east while the IJN TF was in transit. I have posted a screenie below of what forces SF has in January 1942 in a normal game. As you can see, there is mobile CD support which I have moved away. My comments on the CD response are only on how that one static unit performs. Looking at its device list, it by itself is a pretty fearsome set of devices, but my limited runs tell me that moonlight and weather at night play a pretty important role. I ran another run just now of the invasion--daylight--with both SF LCUs set to Combat, and the IJN force got cut up worse than the posted results in the OP. Four merchants sank during the landing phase. AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 26, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 12 encounters mine field at San Francisco (218,70) Japanese Ships DD Hatsushima xAK Sakido Maru, Mine hits 1, heavy damage Japanese ground losses: 29 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled 1 mine cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-Invasion action off San Francisco - Coastal Guns Fire Back! Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force 265 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships BB Kirishima BB Hiei, Shell hits 1 CA Tone, Shell hits 2 xAK Hitati Maru, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Hatsushima xAK London Maru, Shell hits 6, heavy fires xAK Goyo Maru, Shell hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Isokaze xAK Terukawa Maru xAP Huzi Maru DD Wakaba Japanese ground losses: 95 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 11 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled SF Harbor Defenses firing at BB Kirishima BB Kirishima firing at SF Harbor Defenses SF Harbor Defenses firing at BB Hiei BB Hiei firing at SF Harbor Defenses SF Harbor Defenses firing at CA Tone CA Tone firing at SF Harbor Defenses 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 10in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK London Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK London Maru at 7,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards DD Isokaze firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 7,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 4,000 yards Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 2,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at San Francisco TF 12 troops unloading over beach at San Francisco, 218,70 Japanese ground losses: 169 casualties reported Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled) 75mm T90 Field Gun dropped into water during unload of 4th Div 10cm T91 Howitzer dropped into water during unload of 4th Div 16 troops of a IJA Cavalry Squad accidentally lost during unload of 4th Div 16 troops of a IJA Cavalry Squad lost in surf during unload of 4th Div 20 troops of a IJA HMG Squad accidentally lost during unload of 4th Div 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost in surf during unload of 4th Div /2 75mm T90 Field Gun lost from landing craft during unload of 4th Div /3 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 4th Div /4 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /5 10 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 4th Div /5 10 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 4th Div /7 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost in surf during unload of 4th Div /8 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /9 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 4th Div /10 19 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 4th Div /11 10 Support troops lost overboard during unload of 4th Div /13 10 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 4th Div /15 10 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 4th Div /17 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off San Francisco - Coastal Guns Fire Back! Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force 348 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships BB Kirishima, Shell hits 1 BB Hiei, Shell hits 2 CA Tone, Shell hits 3 DD Wakaba xAK Goyo Maru, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Isokaze xAK Terukawa Maru, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage xAK Hitati Maru, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Akigumo xAP Huzi Maru SF Harbor Defenses firing at BB Kirishima BB Kirishima firing at SF Harbor Defenses SF Harbor Defenses firing at BB Hiei SF Harbor Defenses firing at CA Tone CA Tone firing at SF Harbor Defenses SF Harbor Defenses firing at DD Wakaba 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 7,000 yards 10in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards BB Kirishima firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards 10in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 7,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards 10in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Goyo Maru at 7,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards BB Hiei firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Hitati Maru at 7,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Terukawa Maru at 7,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 7,000 yards Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 6,000 yards Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Invasion Support action off San Francisco Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force 40 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships xAK Syohei Maru, Shell hits 15, heavy fires, heavy damage BB Hiei CA Tone xAK London Maru, Shell hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage xAP Huzi Maru 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK London Maru at 5,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 10in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK London Maru at 5,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK London Maru at 5,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 3in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 6in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK London Maru at 5,000 yards 12in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 16in CD Gun Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards 12in CD Mortar Battery engaging xAK Syohei Maru at 5,000 yards CA Tone firing to suppress enemy battery at 5,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at San Francisco (218,70) Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 1093 troops, 71 guns, 75 vehicles, Assault Value = 2 Defending force 12949 troops, 112 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 448 Assaulting units: SF Harbor Defenses San Francisco Base Force Defending units: 4th Div /1 ============================================ ============================================ Your point on the aircraft pools is a good one, but the US has a pretty good roster of restricted aviation support LCUs on the WC early on, and even if pool support for the new arrivals is low, their initial load-outs amount to a lot of planes. That said, I looked at a random sample of the heavy bombers, and some have the full load of 8 B-17s, while others are only the admin load of 1-3. At this point in the game, with no air combat losses, the pool has 61 B-17Es. Looking in the light of day at the convoy, Andy Mac didn't give it any aircraft hardware as he did in some of the other packages. So, perhaps the WC package's aircraft impact is less than I thought at first blush. The air war would be interesting no doubt, with the Japanese player desperately trying to keep supply levels high enough to get his aircraft reinforcements into the CONUS theater, while the Allied player tried to buy time to fill his units out and rotate the EC and mountain state units into combat range. I invite any player thinking of a WC campaign to consult the editor and examine each unit in detail. There's quite a bit of variation. Andy Mac did an excellent job here I think. [image]local://upfiles/31387/234EAFCDC346454A9ECF74CF9D136777.jpg[/image]

Smeulders -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 2:05:53 PM)
It seems like a good deal of the air squadrons arriving are in fact not new units, but rather units arriving earlier because of the invasion. It seems the earlier you invade, the larger the boost as in case of a later invasion many of these units will have arrived anyway. Of course, I only checked a small part of the air units (some 7), so there may be some truly new units in there.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 2:14:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pascal Next up is Japan? I could probably do Japan pretty quickly from the set-up. If you want to know right away, the AAR of th egame between Canoerebel and Miller had Japanese activation of the emergency units. It's probably rolled a bunch of pages back in the AAR forum, but it's in there. I think it was in early 1943 during the Kurile campaign.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 2:16:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth Are there actual aircraft in these squadrons are are they just shells? Both. I didn't do a complete census. The heavy bombers are both though. Also, at this point, even a "full" B-17 unit is only eight planes.

Lomri -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 2:27:59 PM)
This is a lot of attention to an aspect of the game that is unlikely to really fire in a real game (although, if a skilled Japanese opponent found a way to do anything in North America in a sane way, I hope they post an AAR! ;). That being said does the trigger change any of the WC air units withdraw dates? Is there enough aviation support in the areas where all the new air units show up?

Shark7 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 2:33:45 PM)
I wonder, will a 1942 invasion of Japan trigger any reinforcements? I know in some games I have seen Hokkaido invaded early.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 2:53:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lomri That being said does the trigger change any of the WC air units withdraw dates? Is there enough aviation support in the areas where all the new air units show up? Don't know about withdraw dates. I'd huess no, since that woudl involve more coding, and a WC invasion is going to lead to the end of the game one way or the other I'd think. If the Allied player survives then a few aircraft withdrawls aren't a problem. If he doesn't they don't matter either. Aviation support is mixed. In general, yes, there is enough at place like Spokane, Mojave, and Seattle. EC has lots of excess. Boise, no. I didn't check every base. You can launch a new game and do a walk-around yourself. I didn't mess with any Allied CONUS bases except SF. There is a good bit of aviation support on the WC in restricted units in 1942 tha support the huge training effort in both the game and RL. The bigger problem would be the size of the aircraft pools.

stuman -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 4:29:30 PM)
One more thank you Bullwinkle.

Oddball_France -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 9:22:45 PM)
has anyone calculated how much time do the airplane groups come in advance due to the invasion ? 6 months ?

Pascal_slith -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:03:30 PM)
FYI I'm playing the AI.� It's June 26th 1942.� The Japanese have just invaded Geraldton (north of Perth) with a small unit.� This has not triggered any reinforcements. I'm sending units from Perth to crush them. [:D] Kind of a strange dumb move on the AI part...

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:13:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pascal FYI I'm playing the AI.� It's June 26th 1942.� The Japanese have just invaded Geraldton (north of Perth) with a small unit.� This has not triggered any reinforcements. I'm sending units from Perth to crush them. [:D] Kind of a strange dumb move on the AI part... I've never heard of the AI invading any of the Allies' homelands. Worst I've had was Horn Island. Somewhere, Andy Mac is rubbing his hands . . .

Alfred -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:22:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pascal FYI I'm playing the AI.� It's June 26th 1942.� The Japanese have just invaded Geraldton (north of Perth) with a small unit.� This has not triggered any reinforcements. I'm sending units from Perth to crush them. [:D] Kind of a strange dumb move on the AI part... Because due to the skewing of Australia in the AE map, every base in Western Australia plus South Australia (excluding Adelaide and Kangaroo Island) is north of the horizontal one hex line south of Brisbane. Alfred

VSWG -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:32:37 PM)
I'm pretty sure that South Australia is... well, south of Brisbane. [;)]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:35:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VSWG I'm pretty sure that South Australia is... well, south of Brisbane.�[;)] Alfred is right. The x,y coordinates rule the roost, and Australia is bowed like a crescent moon on the game map, because the map has to project from Karachi to New York. Look at Brisbane's y-coordinate minus 1 and run it across the game map. Whole lot of nothing.

VSWG -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:42:21 PM)
Define "South Australia". For me, that's the Sydney-Melbourne area.

Smeulders -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:51:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Oddball_France has anyone calculated how much time do the airplane groups come in advance due to the invasion ? 6 months ? Different for every unit I suppose. All those arriving early arrive seem to arrive the day after the invasion. How much earlier that is depends on when they would have arrived otherwise.

VSWG -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:52:10 PM)
So I've looked at a "real" map of Australia. Apparently "South Australia" is the area around Ceduna, north of the Great Australian Bight. Lets move on...

Xxzard -> RE: Emergency Reinforcements--WC (11/12/2010 11:58:34 PM)
After seeing this, I think I have changed my mind on playing out a vs AI game trying to take the WC. It is clear that even versus an incompetent opponent, the most I could expect to take would be perhaps the Seattle/Vancouver area. The amount of reinforcements that come in is just massive, and I just can't see any way to break through that many tank divisions, even bringing almost the whole Phillipines and Manchurian armies. On the plus side, this testing will surely save me a lot of time! Thanks.

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