p-38E in 9/42 (Full Version)

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scalp -> p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 3:50:30 AM)

Is there any chance to stop them for Jap player in september 42?! They wipe out my best pilots and squadrons with score 1 to 6 at least. They re better as an escort, on a sweep missions...everywhere. Any advice to halt those ace killers?!



mbatch729 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 4:01:55 AM)

Nope. I've had the same thing happen over and over and over and over again. I can't find anyway to stop them. I've broken units up, stacked them at various altitudes, mixed fighter types, etc., and nothing can halt the slaughter. Two turns ago, over 60 fighters on CAP got attacked by 18 P-38's. I lost 24 planes to 1 P-38. IMO, something is broken w/fighter sweeps, but the Matrix line is WAD...I'm seriously considering surrendering in my current game.



crsutton -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 4:57:02 AM)

We are talking about the 38-E, right? It has a service rating of "4" and the Allies only get a handful of them before production stops. A totally useless fighter for the Allies. Not even good for training as half of them will be broken all the time. Find out what base they are flying from then sweep and bomb em like heck. You will eventually kill most of them on the ground due to the extreme amount of time it takes to get one repaired once damaged. You should not be worried about these planes.



CV Zuikaku -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 7:13:53 AM)

I don't know what are you talking about. I have a mix of Ki-44s and Ki-43IIs in Port Moresby. Average pilots in 50-70 exp. All in all some 50 planes. And they have no problems with P-38 sweeps and escorted strikes. Losses are in range 1:1 to 3:1 in favour of PM defenders. The range is blessing and a killer for P-38 [:D]



scalp -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 7:17:05 AM)

well question is about september 42



CaptBeefheart -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 8:09:12 AM)

I find the P-38 to be a hangar queen. I prefer those P-40Ks for that time period myself.

Cheers,
CC



EUBanana -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 8:14:53 AM)

You might be up against a P38 flying circus - as the Allies get so few P38s at that time its very possible to create an all-ace or mostly all-ace squadron with the single P38 squadron you have at that time.

If that is the case, then god help you until the Tojo arrives. [:D]

That said, there are quite a few things you can do. Bomb the airfields the P38s are taking off from, their service rating is so bad any damaged planes will be damaged for a long time. Make sure the P38s are flying as far as possible before they get into combat, range is a two edged sword in this game. Decline to engage him by standing down, and every so often lay a massive CAP trap for them.



DeriKuk -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 8:17:04 AM)

+1

The P-40K is a decent work horse for fighter missions. The P-38s are real hangar queens, and away from large airbases they have to shuttled out after one mission to replenish their numbers . . . after getting back to flying condition. They are vulnerable to OPS losses.

The P-38E has a brutal service rating of 4. The F and the G are better, but a 3-rating is hardly impressive.



Puhis -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 8:33:11 AM)

If P-38s are flying CAP, low level Oscar sweep (10-15k) seem to work. Last turn I shot down 3 P-38s and 2 Hurricanes, and I lost just 1 Oscar.



Misconduct -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 12:35:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hjalmar99

+1

The P-40K is a decent work horse for fighter missions. The P-38s are real hangar queens, and away from large airbases they have to shuttled out after one mission to replenish their numbers . . . after getting back to flying condition. They are vulnerable to OPS losses.

The P-38E has a brutal service rating of 4. The F and the G are better, but a 3-rating is hardly impressive.


P-38 units have to have higher experience before you even bother with them, an entire squadron with 70exp is preferably best, after all you only get a short supply of aircraft, secondly you can't have them as a front line unit either, for example in my game the Japanese took Moresby and Milne Bay, I was flying P-38s out of Cairnes and Cooktown, both bases were being bombed daily before I moved a few squadrons in to CAP so the P-38s don't get grounded.

Watch your aces however, I racked up some crazy experience in the P38 units, I believe I rotated more then 30 back home before the squadron got caught up in a Bombardment group and I dissolved the unit.



crsutton -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 2:19:37 PM)

I agree with Misconduct. The p 38 (other than the E type) is a valuable plane for the Allies. However, the high service rating and very limited replacement rate dictates how you will use them. I use them for all situation but avoid most if I can. I don't use them much for point defence (CAP) but do use them for LRCAP missions where they are quite effective. Using drop tanks the P38 has excellent range for an Allied fighter. I rarely use them for escort missions as escorting fighters qet punked by any sort of CAP that is higher and you can afford to piss them away in this kind of mission.

Primary mission is sweep and then sometimes I use them for long range cap over important bases or ships. (Basically, looking to ambush) You have to rest them frequently. Due to the limited numbers, it is best to put some of your best pilots in them. Keep them at at your big bases and give the a protective CAP just like you would your valuable 4E bombers. (Hint, they are best used at a base with a rail line so you can whisk them away if they are targeted)

You should at no time put them into a small advance base. It is tempting to do this (same applies to corsairs) as they are the best you got, but a smart Japanese player will just mass on your base and end up killing lots of them on the ground. And, they present no threat to anybody if they are broken and sitting on the ground.

I am in mid 1943 and my top squadrons for kills are my P38 squadrons, so I do like them.

Look at the stats of all of them. The F model is fine and they just get better. I am currently on the G version and just about to convert production to the H. I suspect the H is going to be a monster plane as not only is it fast but it has an amazingly good climb rate. So, good that I don't know if I will convert my factories to later versions.....I am beginning to think that speed and climb rate are the most important stats for fighters in game.



Misconduct -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 2:31:01 PM)

Yeah You have to used them to your advantage, CAP is a waste of time - however LRCAP and Sweep missions are its most valuable resources for the 38 period, hence why you want aces in the squadron. Its a nice stop gap till you can switch over to P-47 squadrons, but again you need to find a squadron with decent experience and put some aces in it and see what results you can get.

One thing I don't know if most allied players do this, but I start rotating aces back to train as early as possible, I know this leaves some squadrons still under experienced, however there is no sense is wasting an Ace with a P-40e squadron when he is better served training up other pilots, then switching him to a P38 unit later on with a dozen other aces.

I am doing the same thing now as a Japanese Player, most of my aces are rotated home to train as well as I want to keep them prepared for Ki-84, Ki-61, N1k2 Squadrons.





Shark7 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 2:36:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

Yeah You have to used them to your advantage, CAP is a waste of time - however LRCAP and Sweep missions are its most valuable resources for the 38 period, hence why you want aces in the squadron. Its a nice stop gap till you can switch over to P-47 squadrons, but again you need to find a squadron with decent experience and put some aces in it and see what results you can get.

One thing I don't know if most allied players do this, but I start rotating aces back to train as early as possible, I know this leaves some squadrons still under experienced, however there is no sense is wasting an Ace with a P-40e squadron when he is better served training up other pilots, then switching him to a P38 unit later on with a dozen other aces.

I am doing the same thing now as a Japanese Player, most of my aces are rotated home to train as well as I want to keep them prepared for Ki-84, Ki-61, N1k2 Squadrons.





I do the same thing, particularly with with fighter aces. Once I get a IJN or IJAAF pilot with 80+ XP and 10 kills (double ace) back to TRACOM he goes. 1. To help train and 2. To save him for later when I have better planes.



Lecivius -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 10:24:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

So, good that I don't know if I will convert my factories to later versions.....I am beginning to think that speed and climb rate are the most important stats for fighters in game.


Ok, this caught my eye. I didn't think you could convert allied A/C production. What do I not understand, here?



Misconduct -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 10:26:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

So, good that I don't know if I will convert my factories to later versions.....I am beginning to think that speed and climb rate are the most important stats for fighters in game.


Ok, this caught my eye. I didn't think you could convert allied A/C production. What do I not understand, here?



You can't change anything in the allies production, what he is referring to, is there is a time and date when P-38G is being built and when it stops, the P-38H starts being built.

Only Japanese can modify/change/convert factories.



stuman -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 10:26:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

So, good that I don't know if I will convert my factories to later versions.....I am beginning to think that speed and climb rate are the most important stats for fighters in game.


Ok, this caught my eye. I didn't think you could convert allied A/C production. What do I not understand, here?



As the Allied player you at least have the ability to upgrade or not an airplane factory.



PresterJohn001 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 10:52:25 PM)

You have to fight them asymetrically. Bomb their bases, disperse (allied 4E's = nightmare with allied control of air), spread the battles (they can't be everywhere), pray for the patch (so your radar works and you can get into the air) and fight ony when you have to. Mind you they killed me, totaly reversed the air war, only now in Jan 43 with early Tony's do i feel its more even.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 11:14:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

You have to fight them asymetrically. Bomb their bases, disperse (allied 4E's = nightmare with allied control of air), spread the battles (they can't be everywhere), pray for the patch (so your radar works and you can get into the air) and fight ony when you have to. Mind you they killed me, totaly reversed the air war, only now in Jan 43 with early Tony's do i feel its more even.


Wait until you face P-47s. Hi Tony, Bye Tony.



PresterJohn001 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 11:25:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

You have to fight them asymetrically. Bomb their bases, disperse (allied 4E's = nightmare with allied control of air), spread the battles (they can't be everywhere), pray for the patch (so your radar works and you can get into the air) and fight ony when you have to. Mind you they killed me, totaly reversed the air war, only now in Jan 43 with early Tony's do i feel its more even.


Wait until you face P-47s. Hi Tony, Bye Tony.


Typically allied talk, bring it on.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/12/2010 11:37:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

You have to fight them asymetrically. Bomb their bases, disperse (allied 4E's = nightmare with allied control of air), spread the battles (they can't be everywhere), pray for the patch (so your radar works and you can get into the air) and fight ony when you have to. Mind you they killed me, totaly reversed the air war, only now in Jan 43 with early Tony's do i feel its more even.


Wait until you face P-47s. Hi Tony, Bye Tony.


Typically allied talk, bring it on.


No smiley? [:)]

Been there, done that, got cheeseburger on the T-shirt . . .[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]

Enjoy your little Tony vacation from The Pain. It's a'comin' . . . [;)]



PresterJohn001 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/13/2010 12:42:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

You have to fight them asymetrically. Bomb their bases, disperse (allied 4E's = nightmare with allied control of air), spread the battles (they can't be everywhere), pray for the patch (so your radar works and you can get into the air) and fight ony when you have to. Mind you they killed me, totaly reversed the air war, only now in Jan 43 with early Tony's do i feel its more even.


Wait until you face P-47s. Hi Tony, Bye Tony.


Typically allied talk, bring it on.


No smiley? [:)]

Been there, done that, got cheeseburger on the T-shirt . . .[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]

Enjoy your little Tony vacation from The Pain. It's a'comin' . . . [;)]


All talk, no walk [;)]

Think i need to insert a Banzai somewhere too

Japanese need a decent element of bravado to see em through the war [8D]



crsutton -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/13/2010 6:21:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

So, good that I don't know if I will convert my factories to later versions.....I am beginning to think that speed and climb rate are the most important stats for fighters in game.


Ok, this caught my eye. I didn't think you could convert allied A/C production. What do I not understand, here?



You can't change anything in the allies production, what he is referring to, is there is a time and date when P-38G is being built and when it stops, the P-38H starts being built.

Only Japanese can modify/change/convert factories.


No what I was referring to was that you can keep all exsisting factories producing the H model when the next model becomes available. You just have to turn off upgrade for the exsisting factories. So if you are producing 40 of the H model, when the J versions comes along you will start producing a smattering of P38Js but still keep producing the 40 H version per month as well.

I did this for my B25s- opting not to turn off production of the B25C version when the D version became availble. So I am now still producing 20 B25C per month and 10 B25D. Until they sort out the attack bomber problems then I will switch it over to the later versions.



Alpha77 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/17/2010 4:02:49 PM)

Where the P38s this unreliable and difficult to maintain/repair ??

I read quite a lot about WW2 planes, but have not read that especially ? I mean I read most most about the European war, but they were flying rolling long range escort, sweep and ground attack missions. Well maybe not in 42 but also the later P38s have SR of 3. The same applies to B17s btw. they operated from "normal" sized airfields in GB and Italy vs. Germany without that they needed to be grounded a week untill the next sortie. Of course maintaining this huge planes is more difficult. Shouldn´t these high SR only apply in 42 or early 43 - later the technicians etc. were more than familiar with those plane types.

Guess some ppl. with more knowledge abt. these types in the pacific can shed light on and maybe post 1-2 links also ?



wdolson -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/18/2010 12:52:04 AM)

The field conditions in the Pacific were very primitive compared to Europe.  B-17s except in emergencies didn't even operate based out of Port Morseby until later in the war when it had been built up.  Early in the war they were based in Australia and on long missions they would fly up to Morseby, top up the tanks and then fly on to their targets eventually returning to their bases in Australia.  (Yes, I know the game doesn't have this ability, it would be tough to program in.)

In the 8th AF, units often had a lot of spare aircraft so their available strength could stay somewhere around full strength.  Even at that most bomber squadrons flew at diminished strength most of the time and units did not fly missions every day.  Most of the time the bomber units would be on for one day with one or two off.  Only for special full efforts were all bomber units stood up at once.  One of these being the "Big Week" in early 44 when every unit flew every day and it took weeks to get all the bombers back on line afterward.

The general formula for service ratings is one point per engine, plus one for liquid cooled engines.  Some planes known for being temperamental have one added.  The P-38E was an early model that still had teething problems.  It never saw combat.  The F was the first combat ready version.

The F4U-1 is another plane with a higher service rating because it was a pain to maintain with a lot of problems that were later worked out.  Late war when the F4U-1D was on carriers, they had more maintenance problems than the F6Fs.  One reason the Navy standardized on the F6F to begin with was that it was so easy to maintain and keeping fighters at full strength is critical on a carrier.  It was out of desperation from the kamikaze threat and a shortage of F6F units that put Corsairs on the carriers late in the war.

Bill



USSAmerica -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/18/2010 12:54:30 AM)

Good stuff, Bill.  [:)]



AcePylut -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/18/2010 1:30:57 AM)

quote:

crsutton:No what I was referring to was that you can keep all exsisting factories producing the H model when the next model becomes available. You just have to turn off upgrade for the exsisting factories. So if you are producing 40 of the H model, when the J versions comes along you will start producing a smattering of P38Js but still keep producing the 40 H version per month as well.

I did this for my B25s- opting not to turn off production of the B25C version when the D version became availble. So I am now still producing 20 B25C per month and 10 B25D. Until they sort out the attack bomber problems then I will switch it over to the later versions.


I thought Allied aircraft production was fixed. Are you saying one can keep producing obsolete models by not upgrading the aircraft factories?> Can you expand the factories ? Etc. This is the first I've heard of doing what you're doing. Can you elaborate?



stuman -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/18/2010 1:38:52 AM)

You cannot expand an Allied factory. But you can go in and decide whether a particular type of plane being made can upgrade or not. Go to LA for example, go to the Airplane Assembly factory, you will see the abbreviation " Upgd " next to the listed planes. Click on it and it will change to " Keep "



crsutton -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/18/2010 3:50:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The field conditions in the Pacific were very primitive compared to Europe.  B-17s except in emergencies didn't even operate based out of Port Morseby until later in the war when it had been built up.  Early in the war they were based in Australia and on long missions they would fly up to Morseby, top up the tanks and then fly on to their targets eventually returning to their bases in Australia.  (Yes, I know the game doesn't have this ability, it would be tough to program in.)

In the 8th AF, units often had a lot of spare aircraft so their available strength could stay somewhere around full strength.  Even at that most bomber squadrons flew at diminished strength most of the time and units did not fly missions every day.  Most of the time the bomber units would be on for one day with one or two off.  Only for special full efforts were all bomber units stood up at once.  One of these being the "Big Week" in early 44 when every unit flew every day and it took weeks to get all the bombers back on line afterward.

The general formula for service ratings is one point per engine, plus one for liquid cooled engines.  Some planes known for being temperamental have one added.  The P-38E was an early model that still had teething problems.  It never saw combat.  The F was the first combat ready version.

The F4U-1 is another plane with a higher service rating because it was a pain to maintain with a lot of problems that were later worked out.  Late war when the F4U-1D was on carriers, they had more maintenance problems than the F6Fs.  One reason the Navy standardized on the F6F to begin with was that it was so easy to maintain and keeping fighters at full strength is critical on a carrier.  It was out of desperation from the kamikaze threat and a shortage of F6F units that put Corsairs on the carriers late in the war.

Bill




The P38 E was a complex plane compaired to other Allied fighters but in game the difference between a service rating of 3 vs 2 is quite onerous. I have whined about this before but nobody pays me much heed [;)], service ratings are one of the nicest new features to aircraft in AE but I think they really have it backwards. As it is now the Japanese player with most of his early war fighters having service rating of one to the Allies two or three really hold a distinct advantage in that he can normally put his fighters back up in the air very fast. The reality was that by late 42 Japan was already suffering severe shortages of parts and trained mechanics at front line bases. It was not uncommon for 50% of the aircraft at an advance base to be grounded for lack of parts and the Allies destroyed many on the ground.

Allied planes were more complex but even with spot shortages of parts the Allies were in a much better postion to keep those complex aircraft in the air than Japan was able to keep her more simpler planes flying. This is not the effect we see in game until much later when the Japanese service ratings get pretty bad.



mike scholl 1 -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/18/2010 5:04:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Allied planes were more complex but even with spot shortages of parts the Allies were in a much better position to keep those complex aircraft in the air than Japan was able to keep her more simpler planes flying. This is not the effect we see in game until much later when the Japanese service ratings get pretty bad.



Amen! Allied A/C may have required more maintenance than their Japanese counterparts..., but the Allies were also MUCH better equipped to provide that maintenance. And throughout the war, their A/C availability numbers were consistently higher than Japan's.



Walloc -> RE: p-38E in 9/42 (11/18/2010 8:04:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
The general formula for service ratings is one point per engine, plus one for liquid cooled engines.  Some planes known for being temperamental have one added.  The P-38E was an early model that still had teething problems.  It never saw combat.  The F was the first combat ready version.

Bill



Hi Bill,

Minor point and im not accounting for the source, but the P-38E did see action and had quite some flying hours. They flew their first combat mission on 29 May 1942 and had the first kills in lightnings in the P-38Es too. From wiki.

On 9 August 1942, two P-38Es of the 343rd Fighter Group, 11th Air Force, at the end of a 1,000 mi (1,609 km) long-range patrol, happened upon a pair of Japanese Kawanishi H6K "Mavis" flying boats and destroyed them,[26] making them the first Japanese aircraft to be shot down by Lightnings.


There is a webpage about 343rd FG too, going into some details about the usage and problems of the P-38E in the Aleutians. Cant find it atm tho. Quite sure they did see action tho. Less the webpage is all fake.

Kind regards,

Rasmus



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