Disappearing Units (Full Version)

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Mehring -> Disappearing Units (11/29/2010 2:41:03 PM)

Yes, they definately do, without trace.

I saw SS Kamenev vanish when I moved him on his own. No message to say he was dead as far as I could see, but thought I might have missed it. Hey, maybe some rebels got him.

Just now though, I used Bela Kun's unit to attack some rebels in Rybinsk. They eventually lost the engagement, presumably due to low cohesion as they suffered no losses. The game said they had arived at Tutaev, where, incidentally, Tukhachevsky was moving up to join the attack. But they're not there. And they're nowhere else, either. Bela Kun and his Hungarian regiment have vanished without trace!



CatLord -> RE: Disappearing Units (11/29/2010 3:12:11 PM)

Can you post a save here of the turn when it happened, and of the turn before, please ?

If you can't (I don't know how to attach files here), can you post them on the AgeOD Bug forum please: http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=290

Thanks,

Cat



Mehring -> RE: Disappearing Units (11/29/2010 4:14:05 PM)

Here's the first of 2 back ups, I'm not 100% sure if they are the right ones, the earliest is probably before Bela Kun's disappearance, the second is before another disappearance, that of Chapaev who must have been ambushed and drowned trying to swim the Volga back to Tsaritsyn.



Mehring -> RE: Disappearing Units (11/29/2010 4:15:40 PM)

This is probably the Chapeav back up.



Mehring -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/1/2010 8:27:22 AM)

Well, SS Kamenev reappeared. He was found on the boat I moved him on, but he just wasn't there before. How many 3 star generals are there to look for on the ledger?

Chapaev and Bela Kun never returned. Chapaev went missing at the town on the Volga north of Tsaritsyn.

I'm now fairly sure also, that you don't necessarily get anything for your requisition efforts and conscription options.

You're very quiet CatLord. Is this another bloody broken PC game?



Mehring -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/1/2010 10:41:27 AM)

.... and I can't make any sense of the economy. Successful requisitioning (according to the turn summary) often yields nothing, but sometimes it appears to. The game does not tell you how much you are supposed to have gained so it's guess work. In one game, my receiving hundreds of war supply units seemed to be a result of requisitioning as I can see no other explanation.

Printing money option seems to appear twice up to the end of 1919 but there are occasional spikes in money production with no apparent explanation.

I don't think this game has been finished. It doesn't work.



Mehring -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/1/2010 2:19:17 PM)

...and then a couple of times my money increased in the middle of a turn. Why?



CatLord -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/1/2010 5:40:12 PM)

I am sorry if you think the game is not finished and you are encountering all these problems. But although there are problems with the Regional Decisions, that have been identified and will be fixed in the first patch, most people find the game playable and are enjoying it.

- Disappearing units: You are the only one with this problem, as far as I know. I have reported it to the support team.

- Printing Money option is supposed to be available once a year.

- Currently the amount of money that the RD yields depend of the average loyalty in the Province it has been applied. So if you apply requisition to a very loyal province, you will get a lot, otherwise, you may get very few. In the first patch, loyalty and yield will be disconneted, and there will be a tooltip telling you how much you will get from the RD.

Money does not vary during a turn, except if you spend it on the replacement/construction/ledger, etc... Then it is dynamically substracted, but if you cancel your option, it will come back.

And no, I am not particularly quiet, but the main activity is on the AgeOD forum, where I post daily, and not here. I cannot be at all places at the same time, on top of my day job... [;)]

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Best regards,

Cat



Mehring -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/1/2010 7:12:31 PM)

I really enjoyed it at first, until all the cracks started to appear. It deals with a period of history in which I am deeply immersed. Broken games are not enjoyable, they are frustrating.

Even now you have not answered my points, have possibly lied to me and the forum and have told me something doesn't happen when I've just told you it does.

1. "Disappearing units: You are the only one with this problem, as far as I know. I have reported it to the support team."
Not true, you replied to someone on the AGEOD forum only a 3 days ago on the very same subject. Let me remind you-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flop
I sometimes lose generals, without any notice appearing. I've also seen generals just disappear, without even participating in a battle, and again, without any notice in log.

To which you replied-

Was it in the Ice March scenario ?

Because the German advance relocate units, and sometimes they are far away from where they were, but have not been "lost".

and Flop's reply, also 3 days ago-

"It was in the Grand Campaign. In my last turn, I was attacked at Ekaterinodar, where I had a force of ~50,000 men, led by Sorokin and Kalnin. I received a message that Kalnin was killed, but when I looked at the stack, Sorokin was gone, too.

Later in the same turn, I realised that the 2-star general, who starts out in Simbirsk (I don't remember his name), was gone, too. There was no battle in Simbirsk, though, and the stack was just standing there, doing nothing.
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?s=c6d56ec174d1db5fe2837b646832676a&t=19385

Clearly this issue is not new to you.


2.Printing Money option is supposed to be available once a year.

I'll be looking to check that, but from memory I think it appears twice in 1918 and not in 1919 and up to spring 1920. I don't know after that.

3.Currently the amount of money that the RD yields depend of the average loyalty in the Province it has been applied. So if you apply requisition to a very loyal province, you will get a lot, otherwise, you may get very few. In the first patch, loyalty and yield will be disconneted, and there will be a tooltip telling you how much you will get from the RD.

A tooltip will be very useful to verify whether the game actually works, particularly if it indicates when this income is received. I generally requisition from regions with 65+% loyalty but the yield varies from apparently nothing, to around $60 for 5 or 6 regions.

4.Money does not vary during a turn, except if you spend it on the replacement/construction/ledger, etc... Then it is dynamically substracted, but if you cancel your option, it will come back.

I just told you from my experience that it does vary. How can I begin a turn with $8 and then find myself with $68 after buying some replacements and cancelling nothing?

Why should I get a stable income of $8 per turn then suddenly $60+ without printing money or requisition?

Why do the price of replacements fluctuate? No reason they shouldn't really, but are they supposed to?

Why do I suddenly get hundreds of war material points?



CatLord -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/2/2010 12:17:58 AM)

Mehring, I have no interest whatsoever in lying to players who have bought our game. [&:]

I did not read or answer Flop's post on the AgeOD forum before answering you here.

We are a team of enthusiasts who have produced and worked hard for two years to deliver a game about an untouched subject in operational wargaming. This is our passion, not our day job.

We are aware that our game needed balancing, but this is not something that is easily done with a very small team of people. Believe me, we tried to squash as much bugs as possible before release, but we knew there would always be bugs left. No software is bug free, ever. At the very least the game is stable, and a lot of people are enjoying it.

I hope you will trust us when we say we will improve the game over the subsequent patches.

Hell, AACW received it's 16th patch in October last month, and it's a 3 years and a half old game. Believe me, you hardly make a dime on a game after the first year of release. AgeOD and its partners have this patching policy, because they believe in the games they produced, they play them, and they want to share them with fellow players.

I understand your frustration, but I cannot accept to be called a liar.

Best regards,

Cat



Rosseau -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/2/2010 12:39:46 AM)

Been playing NCP lately, and yes, still finding a few bugs!

Haven't played enough RUS to comment on Mehring's problems.

Thank you for making a game of this complexity. Unfortunately, there will be issues and people will be passionate about them.

Also, I hope there's enough of an audience for you to make a few bucks.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/2/2010 12:40:59 AM)

Hi Mehring,

Cat Lord is being honest and trying to help you - no need to go looking for conspiracies, Revolution Under Siege will be supported and your reports and feedback are appreciated. I'm sorry that you are having problems with the game, but I am sure that they will be investigated and resolved if you keep communications open.

Regards,

- Erik



Mehring -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/2/2010 9:23:24 AM)

@ CatLord

I can only commend your enthusiasm. I share it, that is why I am now trying to save each turn of my game as a record for bug fixing, and why I do not allow you to fob off or ignore my criticisms of the game. If it is not your intention to antagonise your customers, and if I say so myself, fairly useful ones who are comitted to improving the game, I suggest you put yourself in such a customer's shoes and read through this dialogue. Hopefully you will realise how your responses, and lack of responses, will antagonise them.

Here's a rhetorical question, pursuit of the issue is fruitless but I will not be fobbed off. If you have no interest in lying to players, I hope not, why do you make out that you haven't read something that you clearly have? Your posts are dated and both your statements are at best untrue.

If the other forum is where bugs are mainly dealt with, I'll continue there, I've got some more game saves to post that demonstrate the Red player does indeed receive two money print options in 1918.



CatLord -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/2/2010 11:04:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

@ CatLord

Here's a rhetorical question, pursuit of the issue is fruitless but I will not be fobbed off. If you have no interest in lying to players, I hope not, why do you make out that you haven't read something that you clearly have? Your posts are dated and both your statements are at best untrue.
Mehring, I was answering to a thread called "Leader deaths" and not "Disappearing units". At the time, the only problem I was aware of about whole units "disappearing" where relocation due to German advance in Ukraine, hence why I asked him the question about the Ice March scenario. Then I went on to other problems for other players. I would have gone back to him after he had answered.

There are two days, I think, between his question and yours (maybe just one, it doesn't matter, that's not the point). On two different forums. So it didn't click your problem was related to his, because I didn't even remembered I answered him about something vaguely similar, with the hectic activity curently going on, and probably in my poor brain (apologies for not being a computer with perfect memory), the problem having different thread titles, they were not related (especially as we agree with players that the leader death rate is too high, and we were testing a change for it). So in good faith, I tried to answer you here, later, in a disconnected way from the other thread in the other forum.

You made the link with his problem, and we found an event problem after that. So we will be able to improve the game, which is a good thing.

But please, stop thinking we are not taking any of our players seriously, that we are lying and conspiring against our players (and why would we ?), and we are not acting in good faith, because that's not true.

Best regards,

Cat



Nikolaj -> RE: Disappearing Units (12/2/2010 12:40:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

@ CatLord

I can only commend your enthusiasm. I share it, that is why I am now trying to save each turn of my game as a record for bug fixing


You really don't need to do this, as the game saves each turn automatically. If you go into the saves folder, and then into the folder of your current campaign, there will be a bunch of files and folders. The folder called backup1 is of the last turn, backup2 is the turn before that, and so on. The files in the campaign folder are of the current turn. Kind of a strange system, but not bad, once you get used to it (and have it explained :)).

Anyway, I'm the guy posting as Flop on the Ageod forums, and even though I'm sure you've seen the updated thread over there already, I thought I'd post an update here, for the benefit of other Matrix users, who may not use the Ageod forums. It turns out that the disappearance of my leaders was actually intentional. They were executed by event. The bug is that the event doesn't show up in the log, hence the confusion. :)

Whether that's the case with your guys, I don't know. There's definitely some strange things going on in the game, but I suspect that a lot of the confusion stems from things not showing up in the log.



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