Juat watched the start of saviving private Ryan ... (Full Version)

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max -> Juat watched the start of saviving private Ryan ... (12/13/2000 10:34:00 AM)

WOW - ive never seen this movie and all i can say in a few short words is " How lucky are we to play games like this instead of suffering through the real thing " well dam lucky and i thank all the vets including my Dad James J. McCall 1st class gunners mate of the USS.Louisville for our freedom . Man that brought some tears [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img] thank you



Panzer Capta -> (12/13/2000 10:42:00 AM)

Well Max, you have just witnessed cinematography at its finest. Too bad you didnt experience that in the theatre......unbelievable indeed. I have watched that movie to nearly the point of memorization of lines. However, i can never stop thinking of the courage of those who really lived it.



Huffy -> (12/13/2000 11:48:00 AM)

Glad you saw the movie...it was done very well...with the more people that see this movie..maybe the WW2 memorial will be that much closer to being completed. Huffy



max -> (12/13/2000 12:56:00 PM)

Man i really loved that movie .... i also noticed a few wav, files from the movie that made it into spwaw hehe [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



Wild Bill -> (12/13/2000 1:05:00 PM)

For me personally, Max, it is in the top five of all time top war movies. I too have watched it to the point of memorization. And we even have a SPR scenario in the battle for Ramelle. The latest version of it is in the Game Depot and you might want to try it after you have watched the battle for Ramelle at the end of the movie. A salute to your Dad, another of a long list of heroes. If he is still living, tell him for me personally how much I appreciate his service for me. I was a lad of about five or six when he was serving. I enjoy so much in life today because of his service and that of millions of others (including my Dad and my uncle. They are both passed away but they too went off to war just as your Dad and served us well. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games [This message has been edited by Wild Bill (edited December 13, 2000).]



Igor -> (12/13/2000 2:07:00 PM)

It's worth noting, by the bye, that the opening scene in Saving Private Ryan represented a very light defensive force. A couple of HMGs, a mortar, and a few riflemen created all of that onscreen havoc. A serious defence, involving a couple of companies of infantry and a battery of mortars (with perhaps some tube arty) backing up the concrete bunkers would have thrown the attack right back into the Channel. As a historical aside; had the landing gone ashore where it was supposed to, that's just what would have been waiting for them (or worse). There was an infantry division posted by the intended beach; but the currents swept the invasion away from it. They got lucky; but it kind of puts "lucky" into perspective...



max -> (12/13/2000 2:39:00 PM)

well i cant even imagine the kind of hell that was on that beach but for those that were there and lived it ... wow unbeleivable stuff and i was warned from alot of freinds that it was a gorry movie but war is not pretty and never will be its just that most of us not all have never been in that kind of environment and may never know the feeling and fear that those men endured that grim day .Vietnam was no cake walk either as no war is . Although the movie was very graphic it did the job of hitting home for me and i felt as close to being there as i think i could have but what a job on the movie i thought it was amazing ..... and thank you Wild Bill for the kind words ... no my dad has been gone since 1981 but allways will remember him he died when i was 17 but did not die in the war and im glad for that but for those of you out there that have lost love ones in a war my i am very sorry .... i dont usually cry especially during movies i mean every once in awhile i might at the end or something but man i was droppin tears at the start of that movie only for the fact that it really made me realize the suffering and sacrafice that all have given in wartime for AMERICA !!! and i am gratefull to them all ... hell i was teary eyed when he walked into the cemetery at the very start even before the beach scene shew man ill have to watch that one again im glad i own it as its the only cd i do own [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [This message has been edited by max (edited December 13, 2000).]



Huffy -> (12/13/2000 7:29:00 PM)

Max....believe me...your not the only one who shed a tear during that movie... It is amazing how many people don't know...or care what our vets went through, as well did the family and loved ones. Take care... Huffy



Warhorse -> (12/13/2000 9:12:00 PM)

Dig that, Huffy!!! ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue



Toey -> (12/14/2000 4:11:00 AM)

I think the scence when Mellish dies is also very powerfull. It has effected so much, that I can't watch any movie with the actor who played Upham.



Charles22 -> (12/14/2000 4:37:00 AM)

What was the deal with that one Gerry they took prisoner? Was he the same one who killed the American during the hand-to-hand fight scene? When I saw the movie, I at first thought it was another German soldier, but afterwards, it seemed to me that the scene would've been more melodramatic if it were the same soldier so I thought it was, and it seems the movie spent way too much time on that scene, if it indeed was not their former prisoner. Seems I've heard from different reputable people that the Gerry soldier was the prisoner earlier in the movie, and also that he wasn't. Some of you guys that have seen it over and over ought to know (perhaps it was the same actor but he was playing a different soldier with a different rank). Anyone figured this out yet?



max -> (12/14/2000 5:04:00 AM)

well if your talking about the guy that they let go for gunning down one of the units men and then he reapeared later on in the end of the movie fighting with the german army at the bridge..... he was let go and rejoined another battalion of german troops to fight again later on in the movie ...



Panzer Capta -> (12/14/2000 5:26:00 AM)

Absolutely the same soldier.....remember how he called Upham by name just before Upham shot him point blank. And, if you will recall, at the time Cpt. Miller released him, the soldier from Brooklyn said that once released he would probably be "put back in circulation". Unfortunately for Captain Miller and the other Jewish infantryman who died in the hand-to-hand scene (a very intense scene indeed).



GrinningDwarf -> (12/14/2000 5:28:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Charles22: What was the deal with that one Gerry they took prisoner? Was he the same one who killed the American during the hand-to-hand fight scene? .
*******SPOILER!!!!********* If you havn't seen the end of SPR yet, READ NO FURTHER!! From what I've been able to gather, the German who killed Mellish is not the German called 'Steamboat Willie' in the credits. (Remember the German they captured said he liked Steamboat Willie?) There is one close up shot of that German's face in the light early in his fight with Mellish, and I think it was a guy who looked similar but wasn't the same guy. The prisoner that Miller let go was, however, the guy who shot Captain Miller. Remember when Upham jumps up at the end and finally does something right (not that I would have been any braver than Upham, mind you!), gets the drop on all those Germans, and has them at rifle point screaming "Hande hoch!!"? Did you notice the German who recognized Upham and called him by name? That was 'Steamboat Willie', and Upham had just seen him shoot Miller. I don't think Upham recognized it was the same guy until the German called him by name. Then Upham does the right thing.



Wiseman -> (12/14/2000 8:42:00 AM)

Nope, same guy. Thats why he didn't kill Upham when coming down the stairs after killing Mellish. Remember Upham went to the extreme to save the German's life. The German returned the favor by not killing Upham in that scene. Wiseman



Lou -> (12/14/2000 8:51:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wiseman: Nope, same guy. Thats why he didn't kill Upham when coming down the stairs after killing Mellish. Remember Upham went to the extreme to save the German's life. The German returned the favor by not killing Upham in that scene. Wiseman
Are you sure of that, Wiseman? If I remember correctly, the guy who killed Mellish wore a different uniform than the previously released German prisoner. I thought he was the same guy at one time as well. But, I think they just shared similar facial features and haircut. I think Mellish's killer let Upham live out of contempt. He saw that Upham was too cowardly to come to his comrade's rescue and therefore was not a threat. Lou [This message has been edited by Lou (edited December 13, 2000).]



Toey -> (12/14/2000 9:21:00 AM)

They are two different guys. They look simialr but they are not the same guys. Lou is right, they have diff uniforms.



Charles22 -> (12/14/2000 9:50:00 PM)

I too thought they had different uniforms, but then again, if it was a different uniform, was it a different character or did the studio accidently put the same actor in a different uniform? You see, what I mean? It looks like noone can know for sure whether it was the same guy or not, for as I point out, the uniform doesn't necessarily mean it's a different character. I do agree that the soldier not killing the quivering soldier would point more towards the German being the same as the earlier POW, but perhaps the writer was just making a hand-to-hand fight scene statement totally apart from the German POW fighting again. I don't know if I'll ever be satisfied with any explanation. Sorry about the spoiler, I only realsied it after I posted, and I've no idea how long it'll be beofre any people that sees this thred, sees that movie, I wasn't going to hold my question forever. In any case, most people that read this thread, if they don't read it for a week, and see the movie sometime afterwards, will probably forget entirely this difficult to discern bit of it.



warhead -> (12/15/2000 1:59:00 AM)

I think it was the same German in all three scenes. After the first scene the german owes Upham one and repays the favor by sparing him after killing Mellish.In the final scene Upham kills the Kraut. Notice this German is sans helmet in the final scene, maybe he changed clothes to fit his new unit, but went "back into circulation" w/o a helmet. It doesn't really add up, but then again 2SS "Das Reich" wasn't in the area that soon (17thSS probably) and the Krauts wouldn't have advanced into town in such a numnuts fashion.



Wild Bill -> (12/15/2000 4:58:00 AM)

I have the movie on video. I watched the final scenes again carefully. I am positive they are two different individuals. The machine gunner sent off returns at nearly the end of the movie with some other troops. He is the one who shoots Captain Miller and is later shot by Cpl Upham. The panzer trooper that killed Mellish and passed Upham on the stairs is not the same guy. ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Charles22 -> (12/15/2000 11:19:00 PM)

Thank you Wild Bill, as long as it's a different actor, then you know what the studio's intention was. If it was the same actor with a different uniform, you don't know if they accidently dressed him in a different uniform, and whether or not they did, if he was supposed to be the same character in the movie. I must say, that one gets a pretty good instinct, over time, for who the key people in a movie are (even amongst the antagonists) based on how dramatic their parts are, the length of them, and of course whether they don't die in their first shots. The German fighting hand-to-hand, really went very largely against these conventions, for him to have been basically what amounted to a 'extra' type part. It was a pretty long scene and it was very intense, two factors which I've found are quite uncommon for someone who doesn't gobble up more camera than that actor did, hence he seems to fit in with our main German, the POW earlier in the movie.



Wild Bill -> (12/15/2000 11:24:00 PM)

I agree, Charles. I think "Steamboat Willie" plays a rather significant and ironic role. The same German that Captain Miller spares turns around and inflicts a fatal wound on the good captain. You feel this is going to happen with PFC Rieben (the BAR man) argues with the Captain saying that by letting him go, the potential exists that he will be found "by his own guys" and get put back in the war. His premonition came true as Steamboat Willie does come back to join the fight. The second German is also ironic, killing Mellish with the same Hitler Youth knife that Mellish took from a dead German soldier at Dog Green Beach. (Carpazzo found it and gave it to Mellish, a Jewish soldier). Many little ironic twists within the movie. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games [This message has been edited by Wild Bill (edited December 15, 2000).]



ZDose -> (12/16/2000 3:28:00 AM)

Am I the only one who thinks that SPR is overrated? For me the movie just kept getting worse after the beginning and the end was a disappointment for me, those stupid germans reminded me of those 50's war movies. Anyway, I wont say SPR is a bad movie, it was ok but I've seen better. Now, don't butcher me [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [This message has been edited by ZDose (edited December 15, 2000).]



Wild Bill -> (12/16/2000 5:38:00 AM)

No butchering, but a question... Which ones have you found to be "good" war movies in your opinion. It is not a loaded question, but a sincere. SPR is Hollywood, of course. Maybe I'm getting too emotional in my old age, but I did and do still feel very moved by the saga of war. The scene with the dog-tags at the crashed glider, or the death of Wade, the Corpsman, or Captain Miller's uncontrolled trembling hand, and when his men notice it, Sgt Horvath, shot to pieces, saying "I just got the wind knocked out of me," frankly moved me to tears. I find a touch of the realism of war in all of those scenes, not to mention the beach assault itself. It was interesting. Five veterans of Omaha viewed the film prior to its realism. One went into shock, long term battle fatigue. The other four wept openly and all agreed that it was the most realistic portrayal of what Omaha was like that they had ever seen. And they were there. Just a side-note. WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



JR -> (12/16/2000 6:05:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by ZDose: Am I the only one who thinks that SPR is overrated? For me the movie just kept getting worse after the beginning and the end was a disappointment for me, those stupid germans reminded me of those 50's war movies. Anyway, I wont say SPR is a bad movie, it was ok but I've seen better. Now, don't butcher me [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [This message has been edited by ZDose (edited December 15, 2000).]
I quite agree. The landing at Omaha is impressing all right, but does not connect that strongly with the rest of the story. The rest of the story is a quite all right action movie, but not THAT good. I saw "The thin red line" at about the same time, I find it a much better story.



Wiseman -> (12/16/2000 9:10:00 AM)

I didn't like The Thin Red Line. To me it was too artsy fartsy and sureal. I thought SPR was far superior in its depiction of war. Just personal taste, Wiseman



Pantherblaster -> (12/16/2000 11:24:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wiseman: I didn't like The Thin Red Line. To me it was too artsy fartsy and sureal. I thought SPR was far superior in its depiction of war. Just personal taste, Wiseman
I must say that SPR is a pretty good film but, personally I think The thin red line is better. It is maybe not as clear in some aspects of good and wrong as in SPR but that's what I like about it. BOTH sides, not one side, were made up of humans not monsters. The average german or japanese soldier wasn't a war criminal, just a guy fighting for his survival. Ofcourse, there are exceptions but I wrote "general" soldier. I think the best war film is Stalingrad (german) PANTHERBLASTER



Panzer Capta -> (12/17/2000 12:02:00 AM)

Last evening i watched "The Winter War" for the first time........very impressed. I really think the brutality of the Fin-Russian event was well portrayed. This is a highly recommended movie. I place "Stalingrad" in the same category.



Pantherblaster -> (12/17/2000 1:09:00 AM)

"The Winter War"? never heard of it. Is it a Finnish movie or something? please, tell us more. PANTHERBLASTER



Panzer Capta -> (12/17/2000 5:06:00 AM)

The Winter War is a finnish movie, with sub-titles in english. The movie was made in 1990. The subtitles do not detract from it. It is a very intense movie about the brutal struggle that occurred when the Russians invaded Finland in 1939. The Fins were at an incredible disadvantage with respect to weapons and manpower. The movie has some pretty horrific battle scenes and depicts very well the brutality of war in the trenches. Highly recommended and shouldnt be missed. I would venture a guess that it is the only movie on this subject matter. It is available through Movies Unlimited.



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