Just a little hesitant. (Full Version)

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Dr. Foo -> Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 4:25:23 PM)

I have played TOAW since 2000 (still play it today) I am a pretty good player and I have a good grasp of the game. I have played the TOAW version of Fire in the East never to completion but I have got deep into the game.

I bought War in the Pacific and was completely overwhelmed there was too much bookkeeping for my liking I was completely lost and found little enjoyment in the game.

So is this game closer to TOAW or WiTP? I see the screens shots and I really want to play this game I just don't want it to be another WiTP a game I have not touched for years.

Thanks for any and all input!



Zemke -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 4:31:08 PM)

It is easy to get started, but in all honesty is very deep.  It may not be your cup of tea.



Great_Ajax -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 4:32:11 PM)

There are more than the monster scenarios to play. I like the Army Group sized scenarios myself that you could finish up in 5-6 hours.

Trey



IronWarrior -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 4:39:57 PM)

Ironically, I am just the opposite. WitP AE is my favorite game and I am hoping that WitE is just as complex and deep. [:D] There's plenty of beer & pretzel games out there, let us have our one bastion of insanity please. [;)] 2by3 is the one dev that speaks to me and what I like in games.



Helpless -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 4:41:16 PM)

It can be both...



Kung Karl -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 4:42:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

There are more than the monster scenarios to play. I like the Army Group sized scenarios myself that you could finish up in 5-6 hours.

Trey


That is why I bought the game. I don't think i will ever complet the grand campaign. But I will play Case Blue, Typhoon and the other smaller scenarios. I also think that the community will creat other small scenarios covering other minor operations.



siRkid -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 4:58:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

I have played TOAW since 2000 (still play it today) I am a pretty good player and I have a good grasp of the game. I have played the TOAW version of Fire in the East never to completion but I have got deep into the game.

I bought War in the Pacific and was completely overwhelmed there was too much bookkeeping for my liking I was completely lost and found little enjoyment in the game.

So is this game closer to TOAW or WiTP? I see the screens shots and I really want to play this game I just don't want it to be another WiTP a game I have not touched for years.

Thanks for any and all input!



As far as management goes WitE is much easier then WitP for a lot of reasons. First you don't have to deal with a whole list of different ship types and mission types, the ground units will be very familiar. As for supply in WitE you just have to keep a hex path open and manage 5 rail repair units. No loading up supplies and shipping them to dozens of places. You don't have to micro manage the air assets just move the bases into range. The list goes on and on but this should answer your question. As far as TOAW, I think you would enjoy WitE more because of all the advance features and stuff.



Topo -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 5:00:06 PM)

Good news.



Dr. Foo -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 5:02:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid


As far as management goes WitE is much easier then WitP for a lot of reasons. First you don't have to deal with a whole list of different ship types and mission types, the ground units will be very familiar. As for supply in WitE you just have to keep a hex path open and manage 5 rail repair units. No loading up supplies and shipping them to dozens of places. You don't have to micro manage the air assets just move the bases into range. The list goes on and on but this should answer your question. As far as TOAW, I think you would enjoy WitE more because of all the advance features and stuff.


Thank you yes that sums it up nicely. I am definitely going to buy! Thank you!



Helpless -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 5:04:12 PM)

quote:

You don't have to micro manage the air assets just move the bases into range.


Correct, you don't have to.. but you can [:)]



Lützow -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 5:08:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo


So is this game closer to TOAW or WiTP? I see the screens shots and I really want to play this game I just don't want it to be another WiTP a game I have not touched for years.

Thanks for any and all input!


Depends on what you disliked in WitP. Was it rather campaign length and daunting first turn, or the wealth of information and screens to be considered? Regarding the former this game is smaller, but in terms of the latter it has a similar approach. Mind you, I'm still learning here. However, If one didn't enjoy WitP all, WitE might be not his cup of tea.




Lützow -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 5:10:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

You don't have to micro manage the air assets just move the bases into range.


Correct, you don't have to.. but you can [:)]


Well, and it's more fun to do it yourself instead of leaving this to the AI. [:)]



cantona2 -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 5:13:29 PM)

Word of advice after half an hour of clicking and destroying soviet border units, Read the Manual!!!!



Adam Parker -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 8:54:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

As far as management goes WitE is much easier then WitP for a lot of reasons. First you don't have to deal with a whole list of different ship types and mission types, the ground units will be very familiar. As for supply in WitE you just have to keep a hex path open and manage 5 rail repair units. No loading up supplies and shipping them to dozens of places. You don't have to micro manage the air assets just move the bases into range. The list goes on and on but this should answer your question. As far as TOAW, I think you would enjoy WitE more because of all the advance features and stuff.


Great summary. Thanks.



Duck Doc -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 11:35:23 PM)

I really wanted to get into WitE & thought it would be a sure purchase. However the thought of having to manage thousands of units has brought me up short. I read early on in the testing that a turn (after the initial one) for the Axis could be completed in about an hour or so. I guess that might be do'able but still I balk. I am a Case Blue freak so, I may jump. Color me conflicted.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 11:41:51 PM)

Hi Dale,

First, you've got all the small scenarios, which are much quicker to play and still plenty of fun and plenty of content. Even the huge campaign though, I don't find overwhelming in the same way as some other monster games. I was never intimidated by WITE on the first turn the same way as the first time I tried to play the WITP full campaign. The interface, map and units just seem easier to handle and while there is plenty to do in any given turn, it's easier to handle overall. I think that even if you don't play a full campaign though, you will find the smaller and shorter scenarios provide good value and are much easier to get into.

Regards,

- Erik



Dr. Foo -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 11:43:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dale H

I really wanted to get into Waite & thought it would be a sure purchase. However the thought of having to manage thousands of units has brought me up short. I read early on in the testing that a turn (after the initial one) for the Axis could be completed in about an hour or so. I guess that might be doable but still I balk. I am a Case Blue freak so, I may jump. Color me conflicted.



I bought the game yes there is a lot of information but honestly I think there are fewer units than TOAW's Fire in the East one Axis turn could take hours in that game.

There is more going on here logistically and it will be a long time before I am ready to take on a human but it's pretty intuitive and the game does a lot of book keeping for you. I think it strikes the perfect balance between those who want to micromanage every detail and those that want to focus on planning, maneuver, and combat.



karonagames -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 11:43:50 PM)

The number of units you physically move is in the hundreds - about 200-250 for the Axis, and 400-500 for the SU. The support units that are attached to HQs are more numerous, but you can use an automated system to move them around HQs, and then attach them directly to units on an as needed basis.

Yes, initial turns will be lengthy for both sides, but once the armies are organised and the front is stabilised, turns are much quicker.

It is a monster game, so a large number of units is part of the package, but it is a hell of a lot more manageable than when I was picking up counters with a piece of Blu-tac on the end of a pencil!!




Joel Billings -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 11:45:54 PM)

The Case Blue scenario is much smaller than the full campaign, but very interesting in it's own right. With WitE, you can limit how much micro managing you want to do. In Case Blue there are:

173 On map combat units (90 German)
46 on map airbase units
68 on map HQ units
3 on map Rail repair units
290 total on map units

Many of the Axis Allied units are frozen for some or all of the scenarios. It's very managable.



malfid -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/8/2010 11:49:28 PM)

Dale,

Put it to you this way: I'm using the Soviets, who have to manage a lot more units than the Axis. And I'm not feeling overwhelmed. After not being able to wrap my head around WitP:AE, at all, WitE is a breath of fresh air. It's just so easy to use. Complex rail movement? Click on the rail movement tab, select unit on a railroad, and every possible destination hex is highlighted, with movement points remaining at the end of the trip clearly displayed. Simple.

Seeing a screen with a hundred invidual division-sized units can be harrowing, but it's all intuitive. Movement and attack are a matter of a few clicks, they don't require any additional input.

I've only had to open the manual to handle very specific questions (like how to build new combat units, how to co-ordinate attacks etc. etc). The game does most of the work for you. 



Duck Doc -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/9/2010 12:02:11 AM)

Thanks all. Sold!



hgilmer3 -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/9/2010 12:04:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dale H

Thanks all. Sold!


Let us know how it turns out.



Zemke -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/9/2010 6:43:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: malfid

Dale,

Put it to you this way: I'm using the Soviets, who have to manage a lot more units than the Axis. And I'm not feeling overwhelmed. After not being able to wrap my head around WitP:AE, at all, WitE is a breath of fresh air. It's just so easy to use. Complex rail movement? Click on the rail movement tab, select unit on a railroad, and every possible destination hex is highlighted, with movement points remaining at the end of the trip clearly displayed. Simple.

Seeing a screen with a hundred invidual division-sized units can be harrowing, but it's all intuitive. Movement and attack are a matter of a few clicks, they don't require any additional input.

I've only had to open the manual to handle very specific questions (like how to build new combat units, how to co-ordinate attacks etc. etc). The game does most of the work for you. 



I love WitP:AE and so far I think I will love this game too, it seems very easy to get started but has huge depth, and you don't have to dive deep to be sucessful, and that is the real beauty of this game, it seems to handle admin/supply just fine, but then I have not gotten to winter either.



jomni -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/9/2010 7:01:48 AM)

Well I hear that the production is automated and scheduled so it's not like WITP.
Air missions can be left to your AI commanders and they will do a good job.
And the process of giving orders and counter-pushing is easier and more streamlined than TOAW.

So it might actually be simpler than both WITP and TOAW.
But the scope is still massive!



Duck Doc -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/15/2010 11:47:37 PM)

Ok, I will. It will be a week this Friday. The date will stick to my mind because it is kind of a life-changing or watershed date: the day I installed WitE. The game & learning the rules has kind become all-encompassing. I can't wait to get back to the game. It is ruling my life.

I was very intimidated by the manual the first time through. However I skimmed the whole manual & did the tutorial & worked on Road to Minsk over the weekend. Both the tutorial & RtM are very helpful at getting going. I have little time during the week but did get to fool with it some more. My physical copy arrived 2 days ago (wow - that was fast!) & having the physical manual helped. I am also reading the threads on this forum & finally understand some of the things that were not clear because I did not have the rules. I am approaching the rules by peeling the onion. I read then play then use the index to find things & go back & read some more. I am plugging away & enjoying every minute. I am finding the game a huge challenge that really draws me in.

For those intimidated like I am, I urge you to purchase & jump in. This game is way under-priced for the content & is really the apotheosis of hex & turn-based wargaming. It can be played right out of the box & is a bunch of fun to play as you learn the game engine. I am dedicated to becoming a WitE player & I am loving every minute of it.

Maybe I should start a therapy thread for non-grogs like me who love WitE!





quote:

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dale H

Thanks all. Sold!


Let us know how it turns out.




PyleDriver -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/16/2010 12:09:15 AM)

Well you were a non grog, you now have entered the grog zone...Theres no turning back...



Fred98 -> RE: Just a little hesitant. (12/16/2010 1:09:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Depends on what you disliked in WitP.......



I thoroughly enjoyed Uncommon Valour.

When WitP was announced I made this comment back in 2002 or so:

The map ought to be no greater than 2 screens wide and 2 screens high. Any larger and its difficult to get an overall view.

There ought to be a short cut key: Hit it once and it the current points value of every base hovers above the base.

Hit it again and it displays what the points value would be if each base were currently at size 10.

In this way you can set you’re strategic objectives.

As I could not do that I retired the game soon after purchase. Otherwise I know I would have enjoyed the game.

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