current and Future Support Policy

current and Future Support Policy (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific

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ADavidB -> current and Future Support Policy (8/28/2002 7:31:04 AM)
As I've been playing Uncommon Valor through its initial evolution and watched the very nice support efforts of the Matrix/2x3 teams, a couple of questions have come to mind. First off, which company is actually responsible for customer support on UV - Matrix, 2x3 or both? Does either company have a written customer support policy on products such as UV? Which company is responsible for on-going software support and development on UV? Are there plans for development of future versions of the game beyond the current bug fixes? I understand that one of the intentions in making UV was to test out the game engine and details that will eventually go into War in the Pacific. Will UV be supported as an independent game once WitP is released? Recently the level of response to queries on the UV forum appears to have gone down as various staff members of one or the other company have apparently been reassigned to other responsibilities. Is there any committment of support levels for the forum, for example, customer support response time targets? Thanks - Dave Baranyi

Erik Rutins -> Support... (8/28/2002 11:36:03 PM)
Support for UV is provided by both Matrix and 2 by 3. Within reason, UV will be supported indefinitely in terms of forum support, etc. We are currently testing another update and Ross has been putting together an FAQ for our UV website as well as coordinating the testing. As Joel posted elsewhere, after this patch they will be few and far between. Our focus, after months of improving and fixing is to let you all have fun with a solid version for a while as we work to bring you the next chapter in the series. :) As with any game, the most intensive support period is in the two or three months after release, after which point things slow down a bit. That doesn't mean they stop and Ross should be attending to any critical issues here. That does not mean he necessarily has time to weigh in anytime someone says "it'd be nice to hear Matrix's opinion on this", though. As always, we're here, were listening but our time to respond is more limited. My perspective on it is that non-critical issues may take days, if only to gather information behind the scenes as to what needs to be done. Opinion gathering or questions that can be answered through the search function may go without a response. Critical issues such as folks who can't get the game to run and so on should be answered within a day. We don't have "forum monkeys" that have as their job to post here (perhaps when we strike it rich we'll hire a few ;). When you get a response, you're getting it from someone on the development team who's actually involved and informed and is also dealing with other commitments. Regards, - Erik

Apollo11 -> Re: Support... (8/29/2002 1:42:24 AM)
Hi all, [QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins [B]Support for UV is provided by both Matrix and 2 by 3. Within reason, UV will be supported indefinitely in terms of forum support, etc. We are currently testing another update and Ross has been putting together an FAQ for our UV website as well as coordinating the testing. As Joel posted elsewhere, after this patch they will be . Our focus, after months of improving and fixing is to let you all have fun with a solid version for a while as we work to bring you the next chapter in the series. :) As with any game, the most intensive support period is in the two or three months after release, after which point things slow down a bit. That doesn't mean they stop and Ross should be attending to any critical issues here. That does not mean he necessarily has time to weigh in anytime someone says "it'd be nice to hear Matrix's opinion on this", though. As always, we're here, were listening but our time to respond is more limited. My perspective on it is that non-critical issues may take days, if only to gather information behind the scenes as to what needs to be done. Opinion gathering or questions that can be answered through the search function may go without a response. Critical issues such as folks who can't get the game to run and so on should be answered within a day. We don't have "forum monkeys" that have as their job to post here (perhaps when we strike it rich we'll hire a few ;). When you get a response, you're getting it from someone on the development team who's actually involved and informed and is also dealing with other commitments. Regards, - Erik [/B][/QUOTE] Thanks for info Erik! Nonetheless I have few questions (if I may)... Would this new (upcoming) patch try to fix all current big issues/bugs that exist in UV? Therefore can you, please, list those issues/bugs that this new patch would try to fix? The only reason I ask this is because you said (re-quoting Joel) that after this next patch the new patches would be "few and far between" (this, at least for me, means that if something is not fixed now it will be, most likely, left untouched for long long time). Also, since this would be very significant patch (perhaps the most important one) would it, perhaps, be possible to extend the testing force because we all saw that some old and new bugs got through testing phase of recent patches (for example v1.30 AAA issue)? Thanks again for all hard work and support Matrix and 2By3 gave to UV !!! Leo "Apollo11"

ADavidB -> Re: Support... (8/29/2002 4:24:27 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins [B]Support for UV is provided by both Matrix and 2 by 3. Within reason, UV will be supported indefinitely in terms of forum support, etc. We are currently testing another update and Ross has been putting together an FAQ for our UV website as well as coordinating the testing. As Joel posted elsewhere, after this patch they will be few and far between. Our focus, after months of improving and fixing is to let you all have fun with a solid version for a while as we work to bring you the next chapter in the series. :) (clip) Regards, - Erik [/B][/QUOTE] Thanks Eric - I'm looking forward to the next patch, and WitP after that. Dave Baranyi

Joel Billings -> (8/29/2002 4:34:43 AM)
My view is that as the publisher, Matrix has the responsibility for providing the public support for UV. So far I think they've done a great job at this, especially given the volume on the forum. 2by3 is responsible for working with Matrix on determining what changes should be made, and helping to see these changes made. I feel that the speed and quantity of the patches indicates this. Gamers should be able to get a timely answer regarding possible bugs in a game, but I don't expect the publisher to comment on every feature request. The forum is a great place to share information between gamers, and for serious problems to be addressed. Of course, you can be sure that all of us at Matrix and 2by3 want you to enjoy our games, so we'll do what we can to reply to questions whenever possible. Thanks for you support. Joel

ADavidB -> (8/29/2002 4:43:04 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel Billings [B]My view is that as the publisher, Matrix has the responsibility for providing the public support for UV. So far I think they've done a great job at this, especially given the volume on the forum. 2by3 is responsible for working with Matrix on determining what changes should be made, and helping to see these changes made. I feel that the speed and quantity of the patches indicates this. Gamers should be able to get a timely answer regarding possible bugs in a game, but I don't expect the publisher to comment on every feature request. The forum is a great place to share information between gamers, and for serious problems to be addressed. Of course, you can be sure that all of us at Matrix and 2by3 want you to enjoy our games, so we'll do what we can to reply to questions whenever possible. Thanks for you support. Joel [/B][/QUOTE] Thanks Joel - that sounds quite reasonable. Dave Baranyi

siRkid -> (8/29/2002 5:23:43 AM)
As a Beta Tester I could get in hot water for this, but I will tell you the "Load Troops Only" option is being tested right now along with many others. I tell you this because it is a new feature that was asked for by the players and Matrix did not have to add it in. I would like to add that when we are testing a patch we are focusing in on the patch items and not testing every aspect of the game all over again. That would not be practical for anyone, so sometimes we do not catch collateral damage.

pad152 -> (8/29/2002 5:42:26 AM)
Hi Kid Great News "Load Troops Only" option - Yes.:) This is the most welcomed feature to be added to UV.

ADavidB -> (8/29/2002 8:18:38 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kid [B]As a Beta Tester I could get in hot water for this, but I will tell you the "Load Troops Only" option is being tested right now along with many others. I tell you this because it is a new feature that was asked for by the players and Matrix did not have to add it in. I would like to add that when we are testing a patch we are focusing in on the patch items and not testing every aspect of the game all over again. That would not be practical for anyone, so sometimes we do not catch collateral damage. [/B][/QUOTE] Thanks Kid - Hmmm - I must be the only person who likes the fact that I can load supplies along with my troops. I always find it useful to bring supplies at the same time - it reduces the need for me to bring in separate supply TFs too soon. So I hope that "Load Troops Only" becomes an option and not a fixed default. The way I look at the issue of catching bugs, is that Matrix/2x3 have a vested interest in getting rid of all the bugs they can at this stage in the life of UV, because that will make the port to WitP easier. And sure, things like the missing AA guns happen, but it also means that the designers have now gotten a better look into the nuances of the engine than they might have otherwise - it's always hard to completely QA your own work. Dave Baranyi

siRkid -> (8/29/2002 8:45:08 AM)
The "Load Troops Only" is an added option. You can still load troops and supplies. When you take an island, you bring overwhelming force with you but after it is taken you only need a garrison force. Anything larger is eating up supplies. It is hard to maintain supplies at forward base so when you recall the marine division to use elsewhere you don't want to drain the supplies of your forward base.

ADavidB -> (8/29/2002 5:11:26 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kid [B]The "Load Troops Only" is an added option. You can still load troops and supplies. When you take an island, you bring overwhelming force with you but after it is taken you only need a garrison force. Anything larger is eating up supplies. It is hard to maintain supplies at forward base so when you recall the marine division to use elsewhere you don't want to drain the supplies of your forward base. [/B][/QUOTE] Sounds good - thanks. Dave Baranyi

EricLarsen -> Test Everything! (8/30/2002 8:33:38 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kid [B]As a Beta Tester I could get in hot water for this, but I will tell you the "Load Troops Only" option is being tested right now along with many others. I tell you this because it is a new feature that was asked for by the players and Matrix did not have to add it in. I would like to add that when we are testing a patch we are focusing in on the patch items and not testing every aspect of the game all over again. That would not be practical for anyone, so sometimes we do not catch collateral damage. [/B] Kid, As a beta tester with quite a lot of experience I've found that whenever new things are added, or some things are fixed, that inevitably there are other things that get broken. It is very shortsighted of management to tell beta testers to narrow the focus of their testing to a few items. Hopefully there are some UV beta testers that are smart enough to look at other aspects of the game besides just what management wants focused on. A perfect example of this is the 1.30 US CA snafu where changes to ships ended up causing a new problem where the weapons got damaged for no reason. Someone on the beta test staff sure should have noticed this before the patch went out half-baked and management sure should have been asking you to test the new ship changes. Another beta testing problem I've seen is when management is hot to get out a patch and even if someone does notice a particularly bad new bug caused by some new changes the patch still had to go out half-baked and screwed up when it would have been better to hold off and fix the new bug before release. I would rather wait a week or two and get a good patch than get a half-baked screwed-up patch that causes me to have to wait for yet another patch to fix the last screwed-up patch. I know the team said they knew about the US CA snafu really soon after the release of 1.30, but it's never been made clear if they knew before or after the release. If they knew before the release then they should have held up the patch to fix the US CA snafu since it is very serious as far as starting a new game. If they found out after then oh well, but someone should have been looking at the new ship changes to see if they worked as advertised and this looks like it wasn't done. If management didn't have someone looking at those ship changes then I hope they learn from this mistake not to repeat it in the future. As it stands now I'm in limbo since I was eagerly and patiently awaiting the 1.30 patch to start a new scenario I created from scenario 19 as the USN. Now I have to decide if I want to continue my old scenario 17 game as the IJN which I've gotten over 300 turns into and have pretty much finished as far as I want to. Thankfully I got 2 new Star Trek books with almost 900 pages of good sci-fi reading (and no dreaded bugs) to get into so I'll probably just let my game rest until I see 1.40. As it stands now the 1.30 patch was not very practical for me and many other UV players. While it's impossible to test everything considering all the myriad details involved, it's still imperative that beta testing not be limited by management. So while it's not practical to test everything, it sure isn't practical to limit testing so that such a large gaffe like the US CA snafu slipped through the beta testing cracks and made the patch very impractical for us UV customers! Eric Larsen

WW2'er -> Good Grief! (8/30/2002 10:35:37 AM)
Geez, Eric. Get a life man. If the ship bug is so "Earth Shattering" to you as you write about, please do something a little more exciting than reading Star Trek books. This is a great game by a great company that does the very best they can with very limited resources. EVERYTHING I know about Matrix tells me that if they knew about the problem before the patch went out, they wouldn't have released it until it was fixed. They have also said that they have made procedural changes to make sure things like this won't happen again, so why are you rubbing salt in the wound? Give them a chance for now. If they mess up the next one, then complain to the heavens. As for this patch, they made a mistake and it caused you to....HORROR OF HORRORS...wait a couple weeks to start a new scenario so one class of ships will be perfect. Well that's life. You act like they are so terrible and how could they ever let such a thing happen! Chill out!!

David Heath -> (8/30/2002 11:39:52 AM)
Hey I like Star Trek There was a data error with us coping files and of course we would NEVER release a patch with a know error. Do you really think we would work this hard and make this many patches unless we wanted to support our customers. David

pasternakski -> Re: Good Grief! (8/30/2002 12:00:26 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by WW2'er [B]Geez, Eric. Get a life man. If the ship bug is so "Earth Shattering" to you as you write about, please do something a little more exciting than reading Star Trek books. This is a great game by a great company that does the very best they can with very limited resources. EVERYTHING I know about Matrix tells me that if they knew about the problem before the patch went out, they wouldn't have released it until it was fixed. They have also said that they have made procedural changes to make sure things like this won't happen again, so why are you rubbing salt in the wound? Give them a chance for now. If they mess up the next one, then complain to the heavens. As for this patch, they made a mistake and it caused you to....HORROR OF HORRORS...wait a couple weeks to start a new scenario so one class of ships will be perfect. Well that's life. You act like they are so terrible and how could they ever let such a thing happen! Chill out!! [/B][/QUOTE] Oh, no, WW2'er. Eric's right on the money here. Many's the time I have decried, in these forums, the "let's fix it because we ain't happy with how our stuff performs" postulation. I don't blame Matrix or 2by3 for the slow disintegration of a beautiful idea and its realization. But I ask that you look back at UV as it first was. How much better is it now as a result of all the screwing around with it? V. 1.30, in my estimation, is a retreat, not an advance, from the original. Let's all calm down, shall we, and reserve our judgments about this game as they emerge IN THE FULLNESS OF TIME. Fer chrissake, I am sick to death of coming to these forums looking for practical information and running across every bleeding Englishman's (just a figure of speech, not an aspersion against Englishmen) priggish posturing on every esoteric subject AND SEEING A BUNCH OF NONSENSE INCORPORATED INTO THE DYNAMICS OF A GAME I USED TO LOVE TO PLAY. PLAY THE FREAKIN' GAME AND HAVE FUN, WILLYA? AND LEAVE THE D***** THING ALONE. (by the way, I think that the same degeneration set in awhile ago on another excellent game by Gary Grigsby, "Pacific War." I haven't seen a single thing in more recent developments that has improved on my enjoyment of the original version under the SSI aegis - and I still enjoy it very much).

Drongo -> (8/30/2002 12:03:44 PM)
Eric, Fair go mate!!!!!!!! If your enjoyment of the game is so heavily wedded to a perfect delivery of every change, why don't you do something practical, like volunteer your enormous experience as a beta tester to Matrix. It would be a lot more beneficial to everyone than your continuous attacks on Matrix every time you suspect there's a bug in the game, an error in the manual or a mistake in a patch. I know you're trying to improve things by pointing out what you think is wrong but surely it doesn't have to always be accompanied by outrage and ridicule. I think Matrix are the best wargame company in the universe! P.S. Matrix, is there any plans to implement a reward scheme (ie gift voucher) for someone who makes the most company supportive post?

Drongo -> (8/30/2002 12:49:14 PM)
Posted by Pasternakski [QUOTE]Let's all calm down, shall we, and reserve our judgments about this game as they emerge IN THE FULLNESS OF TIME. Fer chrissake, I am sick to death of coming to these forums looking for practical information and running across every bleeding Englishman's (just a figure of speech, not an aspersion against Englishmen) priggish posturing on every esoteric subject AND SEEING A BUNCH OF NONSENSE INCORPORATED INTO THE DYNAMICS OF A GAME I USED TO LOVE TO PLAY. [/QUOTE] I don't have a problem with pommie bashing.:) You have a totally valid point but when you look through the forums, individual players obviously don't feel it's nonsense. I wonder whether the problem simply lies in the fact that, for one of the few times, players are dealing with a company that does listen and are prepared to respond. It's not surprising that many players will push their wish lists and game tweaks. In their opinion, it would just make the game that much better (and the sooner, the better). There's not a lot you can do (except remind them from time to time, as you have, about the benefits of patience). I get sick of the priggish posturing too (except when its mine) but in a public game forum, it comes with the territory. Maybe we should add a new forum that is dedicated specifically to it (wishlist).

pasternakski -> (8/30/2002 2:33:48 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drongo [B]Posted by Pasternakski I don't have a problem with pommie bashing.:) You have a totally valid point but when you look through the forums, individual players obviously don't feel it's nonsense. I wonder whether the problem simply lies in the fact that, for one of the few times, players are dealing with a company that does listen and are prepared to respond. It's not surprising that many players will push their wish lists and game tweaks. In their opinion, it would just make the game that much better (and the sooner, the better). There's not a lot you can do (except remind them from time to time, as you have, about the benefits of patience). I get sick of the priggish posturing too (except when its mine) but in a public game forum, it comes with the territory. Maybe we should add a new forum that is dedicated specifically to it (wishlist). [/B][/QUOTE] Your comments are perfect. Thank you from another priggish posturer. I am acutely aware that UV is a flawed gem, if gem it is. All I know is that it plays, and I enjoy playing it, both against its AI and against the few PBEM pals I have (and am accumulating through these forums). I like, and look for, those threads and comments that seek to improve the game. I have started some and contributed to others. I hope that they will continue, and continue to be heard by Matrix/2by3. Last night, at 11:00 p.m., I was about to shut off my computer after having just launched a two transport TF amphibious assault against Port Moresby (sc17, against AI, 7/14/42). I had been running bombardment TFs against PM as often as I could out of Rabaul and hitting the place with LBA attacks every day. My carriers were busy blasting away and watching out for USN countermoves. Life was good. Just prior to flopping over to catch my eight hours of beauty sleep before marching off to work to generate tax revenues in support of the currently nonexistent offensive against Iraq and other formerly unheralded places, I noticed that Rabaul was out of fuel. Oops. I had forgotten that my ships run on fuel rather than stardust, crepes suzettes, or trompes l'oeieul, and had made no provision for regular resupply of this commodity from Truk. As a result, the mighty carriers of the Imperial Japanese Navy were sitting at anchor with about enough fuel to ignite a quarter ounce of potpourri on a dry day. The crews of my mighty, Long Lance equipped surface ships played water polo in the tidal pools of the tropical paradise known as Rabaul. I said nasty things to myself about myself, but shut the one-eyed monster down because I was the boss and had to get some sleep to be at my best for the company tomorrow (The Dow Jones Air Force was bombing the **** out of us again). By noon, I couldn't stand it. I had to burn 4 hours of vacation time because I COULDN'T STAND THE SUSPENSE! I drove home (running over any number of Toyotas, Audis, and other American-made cars) and fired 'er up. Sixteen hours and several deliberate assaults later, Port Moresby was mine, and , believe me, it wasn't easy. Gimme dis. Don't gimme debate. I love this game. Don't kill it.

Drongo -> (8/30/2002 3:02:08 PM)
Posted by Pasternakski [QUOTE]The crews of my mighty, Long Lance equipped surface ships played water polo in the tidal pools of the tropical paradise known as Rabaul. [/QUOTE] I think you could be the new James A. Michener.

Marc von Martial -> (8/30/2002 3:02:18 PM)
Well Eric, I wonder if you freak out about the typos in your StarTrek books the same way ;). Our playtester and the playtest coordination do a hell of a job I can assure you. You got Kid�s answer wrong, as it was not very "in detail". All of our playtesters play PBEM games against each others and also with people outside of Matrix, so despite the fact they focus on special issues (what only makes sense when playtesting), they also test the whole game itself while playing, like you do ;). Unfortunatly you overlook things in a game as of this scale. Some people realize "bugs" that others overlook and also the other way around. We found bugs that maybe you would have never realized. I really love hearing "When the hell is the patch released" and then right after release "You screwed it up", motivates a lot.

msvknight -> (8/30/2002 5:53:43 PM)
As someone who has had 20 odd years of bugs mostly crashing the entire game, any bug that merely inconveniences my operations must be the responsibility of idiot so-and-so who didn't maintain the guns properly. Moron B who sent my assault troops on R&R just when they were supposed to be attacking Guadalcanal. And as for the fool who didn't keep up with the fuel...... Well that was probably my fault, but when I rectify the situation, I'll get a medal.;)

WW2'er -> (8/30/2002 10:21:52 PM)
[B]Oh, no, WW2'er. Eric's right on the money here. Many's the time I have decried, in these forums, the "let's fix it because we ain't happy with how our stuff performs" postulation. I don't blame Matrix or 2by3 for the slow disintegration of a beautiful idea and its realization. But I ask that you look back at UV as it first was. How much better is it now as a result of all the screwing around with it? V. 1.30, in my estimation, is a retreat, not an advance, from the original. [/B] Really, Pasternakski? You are welcome to your own opinion, but I really think UV is a lot better now that it was at version 1.0. Take some time and review the list of fixes and additions that have taken place with every update. You really don't think any of these things have made the game better than it was when it first came out? Of course, now 1.40 has been released. Reading the list of improvements, I am excited to get home, download it, install it, and continue my latest game. UV is a blast and I'm glad they keep improving it, even knowing that the process will introduce a few new problems each time. That's just inevitable with life itself!

Wolfar100 -> (8/30/2002 11:15:54 PM)
I have been wargaming since 1981 and back then you could not BITCH about a game like you can now days thanks to the internet. :mad: Give me a break! You bashers push your views on everyone else that thinks Matrix is doing a fantastic job. Why don't you go help finsh bashing Talonsoft like the rest of the idiots over there and help in a faster closing down of ANOUTHER once outstanding devolper. Put your problems and grips where they belong in the BUG form! :eek: Yes I have been a beta tester as well for MANY differnt games. So I know what the proper procedure is. Again as some one said "Get a LIFE" and try and do your bug reporting in the proper place. Salute Wolfar

Black Cat -> Graet News (8/30/2002 11:35:23 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kid [B]As a Beta Tester I could get in hot water for this, but I will tell you the "Load Troops Only" option is being tested right now along with many others. I tell you this because it is a new feature that was asked for by the players and Matrix did not have to add it in. I would like to add that when we are testing a patch we are focusing in on the patch items and not testing every aspect of the game all over again. That would not be practical for anyone, so sometimes we do not catch collateral damage. [/B][/QUOTE] Thanks very much for this. ( even if it doesn`t make the cut it`s much appreciated )

Black Cat -> Enough Please (8/30/2002 11:53:36 PM)
Let this go guys, there never was, nor never will be another Game Software Company that has this level of support for a product, UV in this case, at this stage in it`s " life". I mean not just Bug Fixes, but major enhancements. It`s counterproductive to attack them in that it hurts the Company in terms of future sales, as well as really pisses off the Staff guys , many of who are hardworking nonpaid testers. Their bandwith, and your time, is far better used in helping Newbies get into the Game and making reasoned, mature and POLITE cases for future changes.

ADavidB -> Help! Pirates! (8/31/2002 12:52:39 AM)
Man, talk about getting a thread hijacked... Minna-san, ( "everyone" ) - Let's all take a deep breath and enjoy the fact that we are going into a late summer weekend and we have an enjoyable, well-supported game to play if we want to come indoors. Maybe UV "ain't perfect", but it's lightyears better than what we had available before it came out. Dewa mata - Dave Baranyi

dpstafford -> Re: Help! Pirates! (8/31/2002 12:59:22 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ADavidB [B]Maybe UV "ain't perfect", but it's lightyears better than what we had available before it came out.[/B][/QUOTE] Nailed it. I just hope that my weenie PBEM opponents stick close to their 'puters for the weekend. Traveling is for the UV impaired.

EricLarsen -> The Hot Seat (9/3/2002 9:56:12 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marc Schwanebeck [B]Well Eric, I wonder if you freak out about the typos in your StarTrek books the same way ;). Our playtester and the playtest coordination do a hell of a job I can assure you. You got Kid�s answer wrong, as it was not very "in detail". All of our playtesters play PBEM games against each others and also with people outside of Matrix, so despite the fact they focus on special issues (what only makes sense when playtesting), they also test the whole game itself while playing, like you do ;). Unfortunatly you overlook things in a game as of this scale. Some people realize "bugs" that others overlook and also the other way around. We found bugs that maybe you would have never realized. I really love hearing "When the hell is the patch released" and then right after release "You screwed it up", motivates a lot. [/B] Marc, As a customer who spends his hard-earned money I expect a good product. It just doesn't seem to happen in this hobby, but I've resigned myself to that. I do get a bit irritated at typos in my Star Trek books, but if there's only one or two it's no big deal. when there are a slew of them I do complain as I did recently to one author who wrote 3 Star Trek books that were very shoddily written. I do realize that it takes a lot of effort for beta testing these games and there are a lot of things to look at. I am not one of those who are always whining for the next patch to be released right away, I'd rather be patient and wait for a good patch. Maybe 2by3 and Matrix ought to be more patient in putting out the patches so that they do get proper testing. I see 1.40 is out already and I wonder what now is messed up that wasn't before. I'll download it and try it out as I wanted to start a game as the USN and the 1.30 patch really put a halt in that desire after a weekend of playing and discovering a fatal US CA bug. I also don't always whine about the game. If you bother to check the "There's no Transport Bug" post in the bug repsorts section you'll see I stuck up for the game and pointed out to some who were complaining about a possible game bug that it was really just players not understanding how much capacity is needed to transport troops. If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen and find some other endeavor that isn't so stressful and demanding. Otherwise if you're going to be part of putting out half-baked products then expect criticism. Eric Larsen

EricLarsen -> Self serving pablum (9/3/2002 10:06:28 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drongo [B]Eric, Fair go mate!!!!!!!! If your enjoyment of the game is so heavily wedded to a perfect delivery of every change, why don't you do something practical, like volunteer your enormous experience as a beta tester to Matrix. It would be a lot more beneficial to everyone than your continuous attacks on Matrix every time you suspect there's a bug in the game, an error in the manual or a mistake in a patch. I know you're trying to improve things by pointing out what you think is wrong but surely it doesn't have to always be accompanied by outrage and ridicule. I think Matrix are the best wargame company in the universe! P.S. Matrix, is there any plans to implement a reward scheme (ie gift voucher) for someone who makes the most company supportive post? [/B] Drongo, This is the only industry that puts out half-baked, shoddy, defective products and gets away with it as the standard way of doing business. We sure wouldn't put up with this kind of shoddy work in our cars now would we? I have better things to do with my time than beta test games anymore. I've put in my time in hell and don't feel like doing it further officially. I know I still have to do it whenever I buy a new game. I'm sorry if sometimes I get a little testy but after playing a weekend and finding such a huge, game-stopping bug as the US CA snafu in the 1.30 patch then yeah I have a right to be pissed off and to make my feelings known. Otherwise these half-baked shoddy patches will just be the standard we'll get all the time. Matrix doesn't have enough track record yet to be regarded as "the best wargame company". Maybe after a few years they'll get there but they've got a ways to go to prove themselves. I guess simple things amuse simple minds. Save your praise for when they do earn the award, don't give it to them before they earn it! Eric Larsen

siRkid -> Re: Self serving pablum (9/3/2002 10:40:25 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EricLarsen Drongo, This is the only industry that puts out half-baked, shoddy, defective products and gets away with it as the standard way of doing business. We sure wouldn't put up with this kind of shoddy work in our cars now would we? [/B][/QUOTE] I see you don't buy Microsoft products. Twenty-two CRITICAL patches to Window XP and counting.

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